Saint Template...a question

[Eolin]

I'd think a cleric might not even want the saint template because it is going to adversely affect his spellcasting.

Bonuses to wis and cha are all well and good, but if its two levels gone, then that's an entire spell level. The 10th level Sainted cleric has access to 5th level spells, while without it, you've got sixth level spells.

*Sixth* level clerical spells -- that's heal and harm. That's big, imnsvho.

 

[Illvillainy]

Its called Vile Damage.

I never did get why Monte Cook had to invent that, when unholy damage is meant to be the utmost evil. At least the BoED tried to keep within the existing rules, despite it's unbalancing options. That and the prestige were less 'clunky' than the BoVD.

 

[Philip]

As I suggested to you earlier in a previous thread:

A +2 level adjustment for Saint is enough if you play the character from 1st lvl in a role-playing heavy campaign.

If you're either in a hack'n'slash campaign type campaign, or building a high level character from scratch, I suggest using +4, because you don't incur the role-playing disadvantages, which are pretty steep. Even then, I still think it can be better than say, a Half-Celestial template, which clocks in at LA+4.

On the other hand, a Saint's powers are mostly defensive in nature, meaning that Saint characters do not 'steal' overly much of other characters spotlight. They just will be the only one left standing when the rest of the party is dead.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

To be immune to 1st 2nd and 3rd level spells & magic cr vs evil at wil

+4cha +2con +2 wis, damage reduction 5/evil, fast healing = 6 hit pionts per round? I thought it was 10 max per day, another player just told me its 10 max per round not per day...is that true? Immune to electricity, cold & acid....you would be a fool not to take it!
Now if your a spell caster not willing to sacrifice the higher spell I could see that too, personally I would take the Saint temp every time! Although I would feel like a power gamer
teenage kid, trying to make the invulnerable pc.

All concidered I dont think Im going to let him come in with a +2 level adjustment, Im gonna charge a +4.....especially if he heals half his level per round...ggeee wiisss!

Thorncrest

Thorncrest

I'd think a cleric might not even want the saint template because it is going to adversely affect his spellcasting.

Bonuses to wis and cha are all well and good, but if its two levels gone, then that's an entire spell level. The 10th level Sainted cleric has access to 5th level spells, while without it, you've got sixth level spells.

*Sixth* level clerical spells -- that's heal and harm. That's big, imnsvho.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Basically it's a class that a character has to "live up to" to attain it. And then KEEP IT. That's probably the hardest part as all the attention would be on you to see if you fail to keep the standard or not.... We have one in our party. Sure she outshines my paladin but I, player-wise, don't care. As it takes less attention of me. I had alot of it in a previous campaign when I played the cleric. Got lots of attention due to it.... In that game, I was the primary divine caster in the party and had alot to live up to. Probably moreso, it seems, than the paladin... but I digress...

 

[Endur]

I think the Saint class is fine. BUT ... you probably won't see any Saints going dungeon crawling in my campaign. In fact, you'll probably never see any combat if you are role-playing a saint.

 

[Darth K'Trava]

Contrary, my friend... The Saint in our game sees quite a bit of combat. She usually levitates up and fires spells from above while the rest of the party fights on the ground.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I think the Saint class is fine. BUT ... you probably won't see any Saints going dungeon crawling in my campaign. In fact, you'll probably never see any combat if you are role-playing a saint.

Fair enough. This is a DM call. But there is plenty of precedent for a warrior saint. The Core Rules have the very warlike St. Cuthbert. Real world mythology has Saint George, as well as others that I'm not aware of, I'm sure.

There's nothing inherently contradictory about saints and warriors, unless the DM decides that it is so.

I do think the Saint is a very powerful template. Worth more than 2 levels? Definitely. But I very much agree with this:

On the other hand, a Saint's powers are mostly defensive in nature, meaning that Saint characters do not 'steal' overly much of other characters spotlight. They just will be the only one left standing when the rest of the party is dead.

If I had a player who did a good job of playing a saintly character, I'd probably give it to him. Glory goes to the one doing the massive damage, not the one surviving it.

 

[Diirk]

Fair enough. This is a DM call. But there is plenty of precedent for a warrior saint. The Core Rules have the very warlike St. Cuthbert. Real world mythology has Saint George, as well as others that I'm not aware of, I'm sure.

Although its worth pointing out St Cuthbert is Lawful Neutral, so thus not even a saint in the true sense of the word