D&D General Sandbox and/or/vs Linear campaigns

[AlViking]

Why does it always seem like you are looking for a fight?
I'm having a discussion and you are trying to tell me how.

You aren't having a discussion, there is no engagement, there is no give or take here. There's give on the side of people explaining what sandbox means to them and you going "Labels are meaningless". When thread is specifically discussing the difference between sandbox and linear and you don't believe either label has any value but you continue to interject with "the language people use is pointless" it's threadcrapping.

Edit - I'm trying to give you feedback and explain why it's an issue (albeit a minor one) instead of just reporting you.

 

[KYRON45]

But that prep doesn't have to point in a linear direction at all. The prep could simply be a situation in a town with no real sense of where that is going. You might have conflicts between groups there, you might have resources being disputed, and political situations unfolding, but there is no obvious 'the adventure is here'. It is very much an evolving set of circumstances where the players are pushing things where they want to go, and the GM reacting, expanding, adjusting and ad libbing. Now some sandboxes will have more linear structures embedded in them. And those are often described in different ways (i.e. subway systems or sandboxes with roads). But I do think the ideal sandbox is one where those kinds of linear pathways are minimized as much as possible (not saying that is the best kind of sandbox, just that does seem to be what people would hold up as the 'platonic sandbox')

You are probably not going to find a single way all sandboxes are run though, just like you wouldn't find a single way all adventure paths are run, but that doesn't mean it isn't a structure. As long as there are countless groups playing a given structure, there will be different ways of implementing the structure

I agree with everything you have said since the first post.
I know what a sandbox is. That is not in dispute.
What I'm discussing...solely from my point of view is that there really isn't that much of a difference between soup and stew.
Both have their merits and both come down to expectations.

When I DM i don't use those labels. I tell the party where were starting, i tell them what the first scenario is so we can get rolling and then we make all the rest up as we go in the hopes that we can all have a good time and i can smack around some PCs.

 

[KYRON45]

You aren't having a discussion, there is no engagement, there is no give or take here. There's give on the side of people explaining what sandbox means to them and you going "Labels are meaningless". When thread is specifically discussing the difference between sandbox and linear and you don't believe either label has any value but you continue to interject with "the language people use is pointless" it's threadcrapping.

Thank you for your interpretation of the situation.

 

[Remathilis]

I'll reask my question here:

Let me ask the infamous sandbox question: at what point does the "box" apply? What if the players decide they don't want to go to the town, forest, or cave, but decide to find a Spelljammer vessel and fly to Faerun? Or take a portal to Sigil and explore Ysgard? Obviously those are extreme examples, but a certain point, the boundary of what the DM will allow becomes apparent. If at any point, when the DM says there are no available Spelljammers or Sigil portals because the DM does not want to move his campaign to Faerun or Planescape, has his campaign stopped being a sandbox?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'm really not trying to be "that guy".
But this helps my point...in so far as its the point as it exists in my tiny tiny brain.
When i say that a sandbox is a myth (and its tongue in cheek, I'm not mocking anyone) what i mean is.....there always needs to be DM prep to some degree. And there also needs to be party buy in to what's available. The party isn't just blindly deciding what happens next.

I don't believe either of those things stops play from being a sandbox (to the degree I described), and the designers of several self-described sandbox RPGs I favor seem to feel the same.

 

[KYRON45]

You aren't having a discussion, there is no engagement, there is no give or take here. There's give on the side of people explaining what sandbox means to them and you going "Labels are meaningless". When thread is specifically discussing the difference between sandbox and linear and you don't believe either label has any value but you continue to interject with "the language people use is pointless" it's threadcrapping.

Edit - I'm trying to give you feedback and explain why it's an issue (albeit a minor one) instead of just reporting you.

Now you're threatening to report me?
Thank you for your magnanimous largess in not doing so.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This is what i mean about the myth. The party needs the DM and the DM...sadly....needs the party.
Everyone takes these discussions so seriously and I'm just trying to insert a little levity.

I will take you on your word regarding your intentions if you take me on mine that it doesn't appear to me that anyone thinks your commentary style on this topic, in either thread, is all that funny.

 

[KYRON45]

I don't believe either of those things stops play from being a sandbox (to the degree I described), and the designers of several self-described sandbox RPGs I favor seem to feel the same.

I agree with you and those designers 100%.

 

[KYRON45]

I will take you on your word regarding your intentions if you take me on mine that it doesn't appear to me that anyone thinks your commentary style on this topic, in either thread, is all that funny.

Oh I'm told regularly that I'm not funny at all. No harm no foul.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I'll reask my question here:

Let me ask the infamous sandbox question: at what point does the "box" apply? What if the players decide they don't want to go to the town, forest, or cave, but decide to find a Spelljammer vessel and fly to Faerun? Or take a portal to Sigil and explore Ysgard? Obviously those are extreme examples, but a certain point, the boundary of what the DM will allow becomes apparent. If at any point, when the DM says there are no available Spelljammers or Sigil portals because the DM does not want to move his campaign to Faerun or Planescape, has his campaign stopped being a sandbox?

In theory I suppose there's almost always some limit, but personally I would love to see a group of PCs just decide to fly into space and play that out.