[Savage Species Question] ECL, Level Adjustment, Hit Dice ... Help?

[Angelsboi]

Thanks guys. So is this right then?

"Lady Eil'uj deLay" female succubus bard 2: CR 11; AL NE; Size M; HD 6d8+2d6+32; hp 41; Init 2; Spd 30 ft./50 ft.; AC 21 (Touch 12, Flat-footed 19); Atk 7/2 (Melee 2 Claws 1d3+2), or +7/2 (Ranged); SV Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +9; Str 14, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 23, Wis 18, Cha 27; Height 5 ft. 7 in.; Exp: 1000

Languages Spoken: Common, Celestial, Abysal, Draconic, Elven, Terran, Ignan, Aurian, Aquatic

Skills (ranks are in parenthesis): Spot 21 (9), Listen 21 (9), Search 15 (9), Intimidate 17 (7), Bluff 21 (11), Hide 2 (0), Move Silently 2 (0), Gather Information 14 (4), Diplomacy 12 (0), Sense Motive 4 (0), Knowledge (Arcana) 10 (4), Knowledge (Religion) 10 (4), Knowledge (Local) 10 (4), Concentration 4 (0), Craft (Clothes) 15 (11), Profession (Seamstress) 18 (11), Disguise 17 (9), Perform (Singing, Dancing, Seduction) 19 (11), Gamble 15 (7), Spellcraft 10 (4); Trustworthy, Alluring, Persuasive

Class Abilities: Bardic Knowledge +8, Bardic Music 2/day: Inspire Courage, Countersong, Fascinate, Inspire Competence, Suggestion

Racial Abilities: +2 Dex, +2 Con, +10 Cha, +2 Str, +4 Wis, +6 Int, +8 vs Spot, +8 vs Listen, Poison Immunity, Darkvision 60', Spell Like Abilities (At Will): Charm Monster, Clairvoyance/Clairaudience, Darkness, Desecrate, Detect Good, Detect Thoughts, Doom, Etheral Jaunt (Self + 50 lbs), Suggestion, Teleport w/o Error (Self + 50 lbs) (DC 18 + Spell Level); Spell Like ABilites (1/day): Unholy Blight (DC 18 + Spell Level), Telepathy 100', Energy Drain (Wis DC 15 to notice/Fort DC 22 to resist), 1/day 10% Chance to summon a Balor, Alternate Form (Human/humanoid only), Tongues

Spells /day (DC 18 + Spell Level/20 + Spell Level if enchantment/charm): 0 - 3; 1 - 4

Spells Known: 0 - Detect Magic, Read Magic, Ghost Sound, Daze, Prestidigitation; 1 - Cheat, Charm Person

Possessions: Unknown

 

[Hecabus]

Here is the quick answer. If you are making a 1st level Succubus as an NPC or a Monster than it would be a CR 10 creature.

Now if you want to have a 1st level Succubus that you can play, by the rules in Savage Species you would have a 13th level character (12 levels of Succubus/1 level of Bard) and your character would have a total of 7HD.

 

[zouron]

one small error in Lady Eil'uj deLay.

think of it like the total level adjustment by race is like having a whole bunch of levels (ala drows in FRCS having to get extra xp to reach level 1), so your character would at minimum be the same as a level 14 character (12 to match the succubus ECL 12, and another 2 for bard).

so...

XP: 91 000

and an effective level at 14 (remember this for the purpose for starting wealth if you are creating her at that level).

 

[shilsen]

Question for Angelsboi:

Are you creating this succubus bard as a PC or NPC? That tends to make a big difference (as Hecabus pointed out above).

As for the whole thing with ECL, LA, hit dice, class levels, it's quite simple, really. And this is specifically for PCs:

Equivalent Character Level (ECL) = Hit dice + Level adjustment + class levels. ECL measures a PC's overall power and XP and equipment are calculated using it. A dwarf Ftr14 and a troll Ftr3 (6HD + 5LA + 3 class levels) both have ECL 14.

LA = This number measures how much more powerful than a regular PHB race (all +0) a monster race is. A troll, for example, is +5 LA.

Character level = Hit dice + PHB class levels. BAB, saves, feats and ability score increases are based on this. Character level for a dwarf Ftr14 is 14, but for a troll Ftr3 it is 9.

Really, it's simple

 

[Angelsboi]

She's a NPC

 

[Eldorian]

Well, I think the big thing you're missing is wealth. Does this NPC, a second level bard, 12th level succubus, have the wealth of a 14th level character? If so, then CR 14, as per making a character, I would assume. If not, then the character is closer to CR 11, which is the CR from the MM plus 2 levels of bard, and should have the gear of a level 2 bard. Least, that's how I figure it to work. I don't own Savage species, cause I think thier ECL calculation is much to loose, and wholly inaccurate. The ECLs they have calculated using playtesting may be correct tho.


Eldorian Antar

 

[Spatula]

She's a NPC

Then you don't need to worry about ECL. ECL is a measure of how powerful a creature is as a PC. CR is a measure of how powerful a creature is as an NPC.

Always use total HD (monster HD + class levels) for determining when you get feats & ability score increases, and for determining max skill ranks.

 

[Emongnome]

For what it's worth, see page 6 of Savage Species detailing why a monster's ECL is different from it's CR. A very reasonable arguement, I think. My only problem with the whole thing is that a 10th level wizard (say, human) is defined as a CR 10 (and a character level and ECL of 10, consequently) as an NPC, but a CR 10 monster (say a fire giant, large) has an ECL of 19. I agree with the monster side of it, but I think it breaks down assigning a CR equal to class level of a standard race / class NPC. A 10th level NPC wizard should have a lower CR than 10 for the very reasons given in that side bar referenced above. Is the difference caused by the "equipment value" that an equivalent character should have? I don't know, it's the only idea I have.

 

[diaglo]

yeah, her xps are waaaayyyy too low