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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Technik4" data-source="post: 372022" data-attributes="member: 7211">Well, those 2 restrictions (the rogues skill points and fighters forced to buy savage feats) were to reduce the power to ECL +0.Consider the disadvantages to rogues? -Not the armor-Not the spells-Illiteracy (can be negated with a few skill points)So, you either impose that they must buy certain skills (a disadvantage I don't really favor) or, you penalize the reason it enhances their class, the bonus skills. You would know that any rogue who took the template did so in an effort to become a savage rogue, not to increase his skill repotoire.Disadvantages to fighters?-No heavy armor (easy to circumvent, be a dex fighter)-Not the spells.-Illiteracy (negatable)So again, without a disadvantage, they are just more powerful without giving much up. I wasn't really happy with the cha penalties, but I was trying to think of something to balance all the goodies your template gives. Perhaps limiting the characters' starting gold? Maybe just 2d4x10 for all savage templated characters? Even that wears off rather quickly, and shouldnt be weighed too heavily against the savage, especially if you don't start at level 1.I like the idea, but I think it belongs as a +1 ECL unless you severely limit some of the raw power this template gives.These comparisons:Human Fighter 1-3 feats. -12+ Skill points. -Very limited class skills. -10hp.Human S. Fighter 1-3 feats, with savage feats as an option. No heavy armor.-20+ Skill points.-Increased class skill options, must spend class skills on ... any of their class skills.-12hp.Human Rogue 1-2 feats.-36+ Skill points.-Large skill list.-6hp.Human S. Rogue 1-2 feats, with savage feats as an option.-44+ Skill points.-Increased skill list, must concentrate skills on "woodsy" skills.-8hp.In both examples the savage characters may spend 2 of their extra 8 skill points to become literate. In both cases, they have more hp. In the savage fighter's case he is hardly restricted at all! Most of the skills he *must* spend his points on are already class skills. You limit his cross-class skill choices, something a straight fighter never has to worry about because of sheer lack of skill points.Furthermore, the s. rogue can pick up +10 movement, whereas the regular rogue has to buy dash, only +5 movement. The s. rogue is limited in skill choices, especially in more civilized options, but all the essentials aren't hindered.As far as the savage ranger and druid having to put cross-class points if they want intimidate...it doesn't seem to unreasonable to me. They can always take skill focus or cosmopolitan from FRCS if its offered. I think the savage feat to get skills is well-balanced, the classes who already have the skills don't need to get it, the ones who don't get a very good feat (what other feat offers 4 skills as class skills for 1 feat??). Maybe give all savages the intimidate skill as a class skill, but leave the rest out.As far as the spell-casters, it isn't too much of an overbalanced feat. It negates a "weak" penalty, and adds a small bonus to their spells in a certain environment. It doesn't add to DCs or anything.Just some opinions,Technik</blockquote>

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