"Save Continues" duration

[Eric Finley]

This is something I've been using in my own campaign...

The variability of Save Ends durations is an excellent mechanism, but it's ill suited to beneficial effects. There's pretty much nothing in between "until the end of your next turn" and "until the end of the encounter" except for Sustained powers. And while Sustaining is also an excellent mechanic, it serves a very different niche.

Hence my addition of Save Continues. This is generally applied to item powers, though that's mostly because this the area where a DM can most comfortably play around with mechanics, not necessarily because it's the objectively best arena for them. (Though it's close, anyway.)

Save Continues - Duration option. An effect with this duration will cease at the end of each of its owner's turns, unless he has rolled a successful saving throw to continue it. He gets one saving throw at the end of his turn; other saves granted by allies are helpful in that they provide extra chances to make the save (though, unlike Save Ends, the timing of the extra saving throws isn't crucial). If you begin a Save Continues effect during your turn, you don't check for successful saves to continue it until the end of your next turn.

Two example items given out early in the campaign, to level 1 PCs, follow. I've been adding a few "level zero" items to smooth the curve between no magic and a full +1 weapon, and because I generally like for every single enchanted item to be theoretically unique - even if, like Vengail's Mace, it's only unique because it belonged to an elite thug with a snippet of backstory.

Vengail's Mace (Level 0 magic item, value 200gp)
Vengail was a street brawler who aspired to more. He made his mark when, having been challenged to a fight to first blood over territory, he drew first blood on himself - with a mace - and then procceeded to hammer his "victorious" opponent to a pulp. Later on, he accepted his last commission - to kill a sleeping PC cleric - and almost succeeded, despite the presence of the cleric's paladin companion across the hall. The cleric carries Vengail's mace as a reminder to himself.
Critical: +1d6 if its power is currently active (at any level).
Power (Encounter, Standard action) - Clench the mace head hard enough to draw blood from your fist (1HP). This mace increases its enchantment to +1 and inflicts d10 damage (save continues). Aftereffect: enchantment is +1, damage die drops back to d8 (save continues). Aftereffect: +1 damage on hits with this mace (save continues).

Note that I've already okayed upgrading Vengail's Mace to a permanent +1 item (which boosts to +2 when triggered) as a Level 5 item - same progression as everything else. Moreover I think the upgraded version will probably drop to a move action to fire it off; the standard action is a bit high right now.

Helm of Bloodshot Eyes (Level 0 magic item, value 200gp)
Who better to serve as the bouncer for a whorehouse with pretensions than a clinical insomniac voyeur? Little escapes him - except rest. Even in death - perhaps the only reason this item is enchanted is some lingering vestige of his restless ghost.
Power (Encounter, Minor action) - Spend a healing surge. Gain +2 to Perception checks but -1 to Will defense (save continues both). You may make an active Perception check as a free action immediately.

(Alas, the PCs missed this one - they exited via a back window and missed the "brawl in a whorehouse" encounter entirely. Including "Butterfly," the elite goblin Wizard/Courtesan! Ah, well.)

 

[FireLance]

I had pretty much the same idea, but I use the term "Sustain: save" instead.

Another possibility I've been toying around with is the idea of using skill checks or ability checks to sustain an effect, e.g. "Sustain: minor (Endurance DC 30)" means that in order to sustain the effect, you need to spend a minor action and succeed at a DC 30 Endurance check.

 

[keterys]

Sustain save is an interesting way to do it - would you allow someone to use things like Sacred Flame to get extra saves for that purpose?

 

[Siberys]

I would allow that. Although one wouldn't want extra saves for beneficial effects - that's just increasing your chances of losing it!

 

[fissionessence]

The free rune soldier heroic tier playtest (link in my sig) includes the rune of vigor, which utilizes a "(save maintains)" mechanic. This is the same idea as what you presented in the OP, but with the word 'maintains' instead of 'continues'.

In fact, I think it's such a simple and straightforward idea that I didn't even describe the 'new rule' in the supplement; I just figured everyone would 'get it'. And indeed, no one has responded asking me how that mechanic worked.

I think you used the idea really well in the magic items you presented.

~

 

[keterys]

Not really - if a successful save sustains it. A failed save doesn't end it... much like you can take a minor action that isn't a sustain, then later that turn take a minor action sustain.

I'd have to look up the rules for how it works if, say, you wanted to sustain using Knight's Move. I assume it wouldn't work - that the action has to be on your next turn, hence the question about Sacred Flame.

 

[fissionessence]

I would allow that. Although one wouldn't want extra saves for beneficial effects - that's just increasing your chances of losing it!

My interpretation would be that nothing happens when you fail a saving throw. Here's my explanation.

In terms of (save ends) effects: The effect is not slated to ever end, unless you make a saving throw against it. Thus, if you make your saving throw, the successful save causes the effect to end. If you fail the saving throw, the saving throw does nothing, and the effect continues.

In terms of (save maintains) effects: The effect is slated to end at the end of your turn. If you make a successful saving throw for the effect, it causes the effect to last another round. This may be due to your natural 'free' saving throw for each effect at the end of your turn, or due to some additional saving throw granted to you before then. If you fail any saving throw for the effect, the saving throw does nothing, and the effect will naturally end when your turn is over.

Abilities that allow you to reroll a failed saving throw should be straightforward.

~

 

[Siberys]

Oh, I see what you're saying now.

If I were to have "Sustain: Save" on a power, I'd word it such that granted saves couldn't extend it. Something like;

Save
If a power has a "save" sustain entry, then at the end of the end of that character's turn, that player may make a saving throw. If the save succeeds, the effect lasts until the end of that player's next turn. If it fails, the effect ends as normal. If you are granted a save, such as from the sacred flame power, you cannot use it to sustain a power. Effects that give bonuses to saving throws work normally, however.

It needs polishing, though.

Edit: Damn, I see what you're saying now. Much simpler. I need to read these threads when I'm fully awake.

 

[Stalker0]

I really like this idea, its solid, simple, and easy to use. I'll have to give it a try with some custom items some time.

I also like the idea of using skill checks to sustain, though I would increase the skill DC each time just to prevent indefinite durations.