Save-or-die change to deal half max hps

[blargney the second]

I'm contemplating a change to save-or-die effects: on a failed save you take damage equal to half your maximum hps.

Does that seem like a reasonable change, or would there be far-reaching consequences to be aware of?
-blarg

 

[hornedturtle]

It sounds great untill the spell gets twined, and you fail both.

 

[blargney the second]

That sounds like a feature, not a bug!
-blarg

 

[milo]

Favors the PCs, if you want them to be more survivable then it is good. How do you kill the frenzied berserker now though? Probably makes harm a more powerful spell though. You would probably have to change a few other spells to provide balance for the spell levels. Or change all the save vs death spells, maybe lower them a level with this variant.

 

[blargney the second]

Hmm, so maybe a failed save does half max hps and you're dazed for a round if you survive?

I actually don't mind if it favours the PCs a bit. I'm running the poor buggers through the Savage Tide, which is deadly enough as is. They haven't even got any spellcasters, so save-or-dies aren't likely to be used by them.

The main effect I'm looking for is that you have to beat on something for at least a little a while before you can outright kill it. I'm not a huge fan of bypassing the hit point system altogether. So if you die it's a confluence of events that caused it to happen, rather than a single unlucky roll.

 

[Bladesong]

We have always just had the spell take you to -1 hp so that you are down and dying. Still leaves plenty of room for being saved without making the spell completely useless.

 

[Mighty Halfling]

That's a good solution, Bladesong.

Are Save-or-Dies typically negated if you make the save, or do you take some damage?

Another option would be that a failed Save knocks you down to your CON score in hit points. At least then characters have some opportunity to flee, give up or even a pull victory from defeat.

 

[Bladesong]

Weakened for 1 round per level of the spell on a save (i.e. -2 on everything). Depends on the spell though.

 

[blargney the second]

We have always just had the spell take you to -1 hp so that you are down and dying.

That's actually the house rule that this one might be replacing. Well, close: you're left at -(1d4+5) hit points.

I'd like to examine this other possibility because I'm not a huge fan of how SoDs bypass hit points altogether. Also, since we've adopted the bloodied status it would be nice to key some effects to work off that.

 

[Bladesong]

You can always just make them negative energy damage (not level drain) of some type that does hp damage instead which still may be enough to kill you. For instance the Finger of Death spell could inflict 10 hp of "death" damage per caster level or 10 + 1 hp/caster level with a successful save.
Disintegrate could be something like " 2d6 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 40d6). Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust."
Anyway, there are always options that keeps the spell dangerous but gives the players at least some chance to survive them.