Saving the multiverse from the bane of the d20 System

[Tewligan]

Don't forget that our current system of falling damage is the result of an editing error.

The original system (that pops up in Dragon and UA) was as follows:

You take 1d6 damage for the first 10' fallen
You take 2d6 damage for the second 10' fallen (thus 3d6 for 20')
You take 3d6 damage for the third 10' fallen (thus 6d6 for 30')
and so on, with a maximum cap of 20d6

A 40' deep pit inflicts 10d6 damage!

Personally, I much prefer this system. Add it to massive damage, and falling becomes a bit... dangerous!

Cheers!

Damn, when I saw the first post in this thread, I wondered if someone was going to beat me to pointing that out. Yeah, my group also uses these rules - as a result, we've all taken some ranks in Climb, and we don't jump into holes where we can't see the bottom.

 

[Aaron L]

Ryan Dancey posted (I believe it was him) on GamingReport or RPG.net or somewhere (in the forums) that falling damage should deal ability score damage to the person falling. I can't recall if he specified which abilities should take damage, but if its Con, then a Commoner can survive depending on Con and a high level fighter can still die (depending again on Con and ability damage sustained).

Dang, I did'nt know someone already said it, but thats the way I was going to suggest handling falling damage. Str, Dex and Con damage, in varying amounts, to represent broken limbs and such. I think I'll try to work up a system for it.

 

[JChung2003]

Suspension of disbelief is nice, but at some point, you have got to realize that D&D is a game, not a model of reality.

Games need to be playable. D&D 3e has a hefty set of core rulebooks with hundreds of pages of rules, and that's not including the thousands of pages of variant rules people use in their campaigns. 3e used to be promising-- I liked how the d20 concept simplified many aspects of gameplay-- but fell into the same trap of "rules bloat" the previous editions have.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Fallin' ain't deadly. A *real* hero knows how to roll, how to bounce, how to slow his fall at the last minute, how to use the air itself as padding. A *real* hero can turn a 60' straight vertical drop into nothing more dangerous than a trip if he's lucky.

Commoners should be killed by a drop like that. Bloody people are supposed to be *saved* from abject evil by us heroes.

IMHO, if you don't want to get into the "superheroics" feel of D&D, curb your games at low levels. There's nothing wrong spending a few weeks/months just getting to level 5, and having the adventure end there. Maybe some system of improvement gradually is needed to kind of make those more worthwhile (otherwise your character is fairly static from week to week), but that shouldn't be too extremely hard to develop.

*shrug* I think the basic d20 rules can handle a lot of stuff, with a few tweaks here and there.

But D&D has HEROES! And heroes don't die from fallin'. Ever. Even if anything else would. Even if they drop off of a dragon at cruising altitude. Why? Because they're HEROES! It takes a bit more than gravity to kill them (unless it's gravity wielded my a malevolent force somewhere that the heroes must stop). I don't want my character on the 7th story to worry about having to fight the mummies and vamps single-handedly, when they can flee HEROICALLY! and return later with reinforcements.

 

[bret]

Actually, when I want to make fun of D&D rules I generally hit the AoO rules or some of the other rules like that.

I don't think the question is so much about realism as avoiding silly results. There is also a style of gaming where the heros aren't that much harder to physically kill than anyone else. It is just that they (hopefully) have the skills required to avoid that fate.

If you consider falls from 30' to be something that should just be shrugged off, fine. There are a lot of people that would go a long ways to avoid a 30' fall. Depending on the game, some groups might find it more heroic if the character is in danger of dying from the fall but attempting it anyways than if they knew that falling wouldn't kill them.

 

[D'karr]

In "The Fugitive" didn't Harrison Ford do the Peter Pan from the side of a dam with only minor scrapes to account for?

In "Rambo" didn't Sylvester Stallone jump off a cliff, banging against numerous tree limbs on the way down only to get up with minor scrapes and bruises and a cut that he sewed himself?

I guess that if the main protagonist of the story is not supposed to die then he shouldn't. Otherwise the story ends.

I thought PCs are the main protagonists of the story crafted by the DM.

Do we need more rules to account for this?

 

[mkletch]

Fallin' ain't deadly. A *real* hero knows how to roll, how to bounce, how to slow his fall at the last minute, how to use the air itself as padding. A *real* hero can turn a 60' straight vertical drop into nothing more dangerous than a trip if he's lucky.

[...]

But D&D has HEROES! And heroes don't die from fallin'. Ever. Even if anything else would. Even if they drop off of a dragon at cruising altitude. Why? Because they're HEROES! It takes a bit more than gravity to kill them (unless it's gravity wielded my a malevolent force somewhere that the heroes must stop). I don't want my character on the 7th story to worry about having to fight the mummies and vamps single-handedly, when they can flee HEROICALLY! and return later with reinforcements.

In "The Fugitive" didn't Harrison Ford do the Peter Pan from the side of a dam with only minor scrapes to account for?

In "Rambo" didn't Sylvester Stallone jump off a cliff, banging against numerous tree limbs on the way down only to get up with minor scrapes and bruises and a cut that he sewed himself?

I guess that if the main protagonist of the story is not supposed to die then he shouldn't. Otherwise the story ends.

I thought PCs are the main protagonists of the story crafted by the DM.

Do we need more rules to account for this?

There is a major difference between a movie and a book. Movies are supposed to look good, but they really do all of the 'thinking' for you. When you read a book, you have to picture everything yourself - the action is in your head. But you mind knows how the real world works, and tries to impress that upon your imaginings, unless you are playing a DC- or Marvel-type super heroes game (which is not heroic fantasy), or are in a room full of funky-smelling smoke.

An organic story (roleplaying) does not, or should not have a fixed ending. All of the other media mentioned are fixed. One person sets the beginning, the plot, the action, the dialogue, the end, and maybe a sequel. If you assume that the characters never die, why not just get around a table and simply read a play oir movie script, rolling dice only when the silences get uncomfortable?

Characters die all the time in movies and books. What is to say that YOUR character isn't the one that dies a silly death while the 'hero' watches. It is arrogant and uncreative to assume that your character (or even your whole party) are the heroes destined to make it to the end and save the f'n world or whatever. If that were the 'feel' of my game, I'd just watch a movie or something equally mindless.

-Fletch!

 

[EricNoah]

Dang, I did'nt know someone already said it, but thats the way I was going to suggest handling falling damage. Str, Dex and Con damage, in varying amounts, to represent broken limbs and such. I think I'll try to work up a system for it.

My next campaign will incorporate something called Mobility Injuries. Basically it works like Death from Massive Damage but the hp threshold is lower (30 points from a single blow/injury but not cold or subdual energy damage -- in my campaign those are going to cause subdual instead of hp damage) and there's a Fort save involved, and if you fail it you are at half movement rate and at -4 on any action requiring strenuous movement (attacking, jumping, swimming, Reflex saves). You keep this mobility injury until you have completely healed up (no hp or subdual damage).

Also going to introduce chances for infections -- every day in which you are not fully healed there's a chance of contracting a minor disease.

With both of these rules I will be expanding the role of non-clerical healers -- more uses for the Heal skill, herbal remedies, etc.

 

[Numion]

Characters die all the time in movies and books. What is to say that YOUR character isn't the one that dies a silly death while the 'hero' watches. It is arrogant and uncreative to assume that your character (or even your whole party) are the heroes destined to make it to the end and save the f'n world or whatever. If that were the 'feel' of my game, I'd just watch a movie or something equally mindless.

I know I wouldn't want to play a character destined to die from a heart attack, cancer or slipping in the bathroom. (no 1 & 2 are among the most common RL causes of death) This game is about the heroics for me, not being in the support cast. Arrogant? Really not. I'm here to enjoy. Is it arrogant to want to enjoy a game that's meant to be enjoyed? Uncreative? Now who's being arrogant...

 

[hong]

There is a major difference between a movie and a book. Movies are supposed to look good, but they really do all of the 'thinking' for you. When you read a book, you have to picture everything yourself - the action is in your head.

I am "giving my head some action" RIGHT NOW, if you know what I mean, and I think you do.

But you mind knows how the real world works, and tries to impress that upon your imaginings, unless you are playing a DC- or Marvel-type super heroes game (which is not heroic fantasy), or are in a room full of funky-smelling smoke.

A 10th level D&D character _is_ a superhero. They just don't wear their underpants on the outside. Although they could, if they wanted to. Mmm, studded leather, with the studs on the inside!

An organic story (roleplaying) does not, or should not have a fixed ending. All of the other media mentioned are fixed.

Did anyone say that campaigns should have a fixed ending?

One person sets the beginning, the plot, the action, the dialogue, the end, and maybe a sequel. If you assume that the characters never die, why not just get around a table and simply read a play oir movie script, rolling dice only when the silences get uncomfortable?

Bugaboo does this much better than you.

Characters die all the time in movies and books. What is to say that YOUR character isn't the one that dies a silly death while the 'hero' watches.

Ooo, can you do that? I want to watch. I like to watch.

It is arrogant and uncreative to assume that your character (or even your whole party) are the heroes destined to make it to the end and save the f'n world or whatever.

What on earth does this have to do with the topic?

If that were the 'feel' of my game, I'd just watch a movie or something equally mindless.

I have just the thing in mind. Question: do you prefer to use your left hand, or your right hand?