Saving Throws 101 : Refrench My Memory Please
- Thread starter FCWesel
- Start date
1/20 rule on saves
The facts as I am aware of them on the 1-20 rule for saves are:
Nowhere in the core books does it say that saves auto fail on a 1 or auto-succeed on a 20. (It does not specifically say that they don't, but "it doesn't say you can't" or anything that smacks of that sort of thinking is not intended to be a valid argument in 3E.)
I swear the SRD did contain this rule at one time, but it got taken out (or I am mistaken about it being there in the first place).
Skip Williams has said that saves DO fail on a 1 and succeed on a 20.
Deities and Demigods states that divine beings do not automatically fail saves on a 1, strongly implying that other creatures do.
No WotC employee that I am aware of has ever explicitly stated that saves don't have auto failure and success. On the other hand, see above about "it doesn't say you can't". I think several of them are known to use this rule, but I could be mistaken.
Draw your own conclusions; from where I sit it looks like it could go either way, with the likliest conclusion being that auto-failure and auto-success is the intended rule, but was accidentally left out of the actual books. On the other hand you would think it would have gone into the second printing and/or the current SRD had that been the case. Perhaps 3.5 will have the definitive answer.
Does anyone else know any facts regarding this other than the ones I have mentioned above?
The facts as I am aware of them on the 1-20 rule for saves are:
Nowhere in the core books does it say that saves auto fail on a 1 or auto-succeed on a 20. (It does not specifically say that they don't, but "it doesn't say you can't" or anything that smacks of that sort of thinking is not intended to be a valid argument in 3E.)
I swear the SRD did contain this rule at one time, but it got taken out (or I am mistaken about it being there in the first place).
Skip Williams has said that saves DO fail on a 1 and succeed on a 20.
Deities and Demigods states that divine beings do not automatically fail saves on a 1, strongly implying that other creatures do.
No WotC employee that I am aware of has ever explicitly stated that saves don't have auto failure and success. On the other hand, see above about "it doesn't say you can't". I think several of them are known to use this rule, but I could be mistaken.
Draw your own conclusions; from where I sit it looks like it could go either way, with the likliest conclusion being that auto-failure and auto-success is the intended rule, but was accidentally left out of the actual books. On the other hand you would think it would have gone into the second printing and/or the current SRD had that been the case. Perhaps 3.5 will have the definitive answer.
Does anyone else know any facts regarding this other than the ones I have mentioned above?
Last edited:
SylverFlame
First Post
Auto-fails/saves are considered house rules (even for attacks). As such, any group can freely mix and match the option as they see fit.
Middle of the road is great. You get the wind of the cars zooming along on both sides and all the drivers swirve to miss you because of the fear of the law suit.
EDIT: Couldn't resist adding that last line to my sig...
Middle of the road is great. You get the wind of the cars zooming along on both sides and all the drivers swirve to miss you because of the fear of the law suit.
EDIT: Couldn't resist adding that last line to my sig...
Last edited:
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Even for attacks?
That's just wrong.
-Hyp.
