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Message: <blockquote data-quote="billd91" data-source="post: 6153365" data-attributes="member: 3400">Except that this is, in a system in which casters can invest heavily in one ability score, a major source of problems with the CODzillas. Unlike 1e and 2e, in which saves were based on the level/HD of the target, 3e wizards could pump their Int, target weak saves, and warp the balance of the game between hit point ablation (via martial attacks and damage spells) and save or die/sit spells. So it's not like D&D hasn't tried this approach and found problems with it in actual play. The 1e/2e method, while it could make casting save or die spells against high level/HD opponents frustrating, did a reasonably good job of maintaining one area of spellcaster/martial balance. Spellcasters might be able to suddenly end encounters, but do so in a somewhat unreliable way. Hit point ablation was more reliable, but generally slower and exposed the party to more ablation in turn.I many ways, 3e's ideas were pretty sound from a simulation point of view. The level of the spell counted since higher level spells should be harder to resist than lower level spells. The offensive stat of the caster mattered because it makes sense that some casters would be more talented than others. Level affected the save bonus because more powerful characters should be more resilient than less experienced ones. Defensive stats mattered because some characters should be more talented at resisting than others. And, finally, it made some sense that character archetypes should be better at some saves than others and have stronger/weakers saves. They then set defensive resistance bonuses to be cheaper than offensive bonuses in magic item prices. That's all good stuff. But put it all together and add in myriad ways to enhance casting stats and imbalances between single-attribute dependent classes and multiple-attribute classes that could be exploited in character generation and you've got some trouble brewing.D&D Next is building in solutions to some of the problems. Caps on stats keeps a caster from pumping his casting ability too far above the target's likely defensive stats. Making all stats useful for defense helps a little, but I don't think their implementation is close to being an ideal solution yet. But as far as driving the main thrust of the saving throw modifiers and DCs, I'm not convinced that building in either the spell level, the caster's stat, or the target's level is the inherently ideal solution as the basis of the saving throw.</blockquote>

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