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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6154258" data-attributes="member: 92511"><p>No, I suppose not. But "should" and "inherently" are not the same thing. It is my preference and experience. Yes. But it also, to me, seems to be the most simple and "common sense logic", if that's a thing, way to make things. A player with no D&D experience can see that a 3rd level spell is more powerful than a 1st level spell...otherwise, what's the point of having/gaining levels?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Doesn't it? "<em>a higher level caster is generally better than a lower level caster</em> is a given." Why then would the "generally better" wizard's sleep be no more effective than a 1st level wizard fresh out of the academy/tutelage/apprenticeship?</p><p></p><p>"Must be"? No, I suppose not. But again, seems common sense. Maybe it's not the most "balanced" or the most mathematically "correct" for those who want everyone on a single playing field, but it makes the most basic sense.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, given. All of these things make the higher level caster more powerful. How does that somehow negate the fact that the higher level caster is [to use your term] "inherently" or [I would say] "should be", just plain better (more experience) at casting magics he possesses/has possessed for a while?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, see above. Yes, given. "Must be"? No. But it makes total basic sense to the outside observer that the 10th level mage is winging objectively better spells. Are they better because they have more numerous and more powerful spells than the 3rd level mage? Yes. They are.</p><p></p><p>That's not to say they are not<em> also </em>more powerful simply because they are higher level spells (though those certainly are). They could be...and my preference/thinking is they "should" be more powerful spells across all spell levels because the caster is just more powerful/experienced...they have more magic at their disposal...they have a better understanding, better at manipulating it...they have mastered the best Sleep she can, while she is still perfecting/trying to improve her Lightning bolt and striving/studying to get that Dimension Door to work in the first place instead of just going "PFZAPfizzle."</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't think it was the <em>only</em> way. Nor meant to imply it was. So, apologies for ruffling anyone's feathers with a perceived "one true wayism." I simply think it makes the most sense/is the simplest for understanding of new players who might be trying to get into their imagination wrapped around this fantasy game than their spell-slinger within it. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is, of course, always a concern...and perhaps why it should be DC increasing by spell level OR caster level...but not necessarily both. Is it still quadratic, yeah, I guess. But not necessarily as egregious while still providing a "higher level is better at doing stuff" feel.</p><p></p><p>Either way, the point of the thread (as far as the OP), I don't agree with Character level based saves. My love/preference of old school/BECM/1e notwithstanding. OR, perhaps [thinking more about it now] it could be both? Your saves get better as your PC increases level. Given. But the threat from higher level/HD foes also goes up. So the 3rd level PC trying to resist a 3rd level mage's Sleep is just as difficult as a 10th level PC trying to resist a 10th level mage's Sleep. ...Is that less quadratic? I'll leave that to those more interested in number-crunching than myself.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 6154258, member: 92511"] No, I suppose not. But "should" and "inherently" are not the same thing. It is my preference and experience. Yes. But it also, to me, seems to be the most simple and "common sense logic", if that's a thing, way to make things. A player with no D&D experience can see that a 3rd level spell is more powerful than a 1st level spell...otherwise, what's the point of having/gaining levels? Doesn't it? "[I]a higher level caster is generally better than a lower level caster[/I] is a given." Why then would the "generally better" wizard's sleep be no more effective than a 1st level wizard fresh out of the academy/tutelage/apprenticeship? "Must be"? No, I suppose not. But again, seems common sense. Maybe it's not the most "balanced" or the most mathematically "correct" for those who want everyone on a single playing field, but it makes the most basic sense. Yes, given. All of these things make the higher level caster more powerful. How does that somehow negate the fact that the higher level caster is [to use your term] "inherently" or [I would say] "should be", just plain better (more experience) at casting magics he possesses/has possessed for a while? Again, see above. Yes, given. "Must be"? No. But it makes total basic sense to the outside observer that the 10th level mage is winging objectively better spells. Are they better because they have more numerous and more powerful spells than the 3rd level mage? Yes. They are. That's not to say they are not[I] also [/I]more powerful simply because they are higher level spells (though those certainly are). They could be...and my preference/thinking is they "should" be more powerful spells across all spell levels because the caster is just more powerful/experienced...they have more magic at their disposal...they have a better understanding, better at manipulating it...they have mastered the best Sleep she can, while she is still perfecting/trying to improve her Lightning bolt and striving/studying to get that Dimension Door to work in the first place instead of just going "PFZAPfizzle." I didn't think it was the [I]only[/I] way. Nor meant to imply it was. So, apologies for ruffling anyone's feathers with a perceived "one true wayism." I simply think it makes the most sense/is the simplest for understanding of new players who might be trying to get into their imagination wrapped around this fantasy game than their spell-slinger within it. This is, of course, always a concern...and perhaps why it should be DC increasing by spell level OR caster level...but not necessarily both. Is it still quadratic, yeah, I guess. But not necessarily as egregious while still providing a "higher level is better at doing stuff" feel. Either way, the point of the thread (as far as the OP), I don't agree with Character level based saves. My love/preference of old school/BECM/1e notwithstanding. OR, perhaps [thinking more about it now] it could be both? Your saves get better as your PC increases level. Given. But the threat from higher level/HD foes also goes up. So the 3rd level PC trying to resist a 3rd level mage's Sleep is just as difficult as a 10th level PC trying to resist a 10th level mage's Sleep. ...Is that less quadratic? I'll leave that to those more interested in number-crunching than myself. [/QUOTE]
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