Scarred Lands: Ask the Sage [This keeps up, I'm gonna need a bigger notebook!]

[JoeGKushner]

I'm having a hard time making it through the book. So many of the god's planes seem like such bland rip offs of standard planes that its, well, boring. Most of the planes do the same thing. They have standard gravity and time, and have augmentation upon the god's domain spells. They are limitless. Why not just a planar statbook at the front of the section?

None of the NPC's are put into game terms. Now for most of them, like the deities, that's not a problem, but there are several standard type NPC's here as well. If I'm not mistaken, it also looks like a few new deities are mentioned here. Hope I'm wrong as that's indicative of creep.

When looking over one of the planes, it mentions that Irda went to the Enkili's realm, but I don't see her mentioned there yet.

The lack of any maps in the product is also a let down. I'm not expecting everything to be detailed, but there's nothing. A tree is not a map.

Guess I'm still mad about reading how since the gods were trapped in the planes that they were going to beat the titans and get out! Argh, I hate the changing nature of the Scarred Lands. At this rate, it's going to be called the Inconsistant Lands.

I'm still reading the god's planes at the moment, but flipped around a bit. Does that Moon style ranger really get a d6 hit dice, or should that be a d8?

 

[Trickstergod]

I'm having a hard time making it through the book. So many of the god's planes seem like such bland rip offs of standard planes that its, well, boring. Most of the planes do the same thing. They have standard gravity and time, and have augmentation upon the god's domain spells. They are limitless. Why not just a planar statbook at the front of the section?

None of the NPC's are put into game terms. Now for most of them, like the deities, that's not a problem, but there are several standard type NPC's here as well. If I'm not mistaken, it also looks like a few new deities are mentioned here. Hope I'm wrong as that's indicative of creep.

When looking over one of the planes, it mentions that Irda went to the Enkili's realm, but I don't see her mentioned there yet.

The lack of any maps in the product is also a let down. I'm not expecting everything to be detailed, but there's nothing. A tree is not a map.

Guess I'm still mad about reading how since the gods were trapped in the planes that they were going to beat the titans and get out! Argh, I hate the changing nature of the Scarred Lands. At this rate, it's going to be called the Inconsistant Lands.

I'm still reading the god's planes at the moment, but flipped around a bit. Does that Moon style ranger really get a d6 hit dice, or should that be a d8?

You know, I wrote a review of Edge of Infinity and was in the process of editting it to put up here when my computer went kaput. I've been lazy about getting it fixed, so don't know if I'll be able to get it back (I've yet to try the freezer trick that was recommend to me...) I may write up another review, but it's just frustrating to need to do it twice, so who knows....

Anyway, Joe, here's hopefully a few things to alleviate some of your troubles:

Gods don't need followers, not like, say, the Forgotten Realms gods do, anyway. They derive power from them but can exist without them.

Also, the gods were trapped in the planes when they had no followers. So, yes, the gods were trying to establish a link to Scarn to avoid being pulled back to the planes, but they were also concerned about the fate of their followers. Without followers it would weaken them and deprive them of any link to Scarn; thus, the titans had to go because of the damage they were doing to their worshippers, who served to empower the gods as well as allow them to manifest on Scarn.

As I see it, Edge of Infinity didn't change the gods motivation for going to war insomuch as it merely added one more factor for why they did it.

With that said, though, I think the entire trapped in the planes bit is exceptionally lame. It's not so much inconsistent as I hope I was able to offer enough explanation for, merely a bad idea in my opinion.

As for Enkili's realm, the demigod section was cut for space reasons. Just one of the many problems with that write-up (the fact that Lethene is in the Abyss, not Limbo, is another one, as well as the fact that Belsameth is the goddess of madness, not Enkili).

And no, there are no new deities in Edge of Infinity. All of them can be found in the Divine and the Defeated.

As for the lack of maps, that's something I rather liked - the introduction established, in my mind, that there's no set, quantifiable way for looking at the planes. Even the tree is thought to just be a metaphor as opposed to the actual set up of the planes. It's hard to map out infinity and ideas, after all.

I also found that, yeah, the essential planar set-up is fairly analagous to the Great Wheel, merely with a Scarred Lands twist. Some were good, though - I enjoyed the Positive Energy Plane, for one.

In regards to the Moonlight Lord, based on all the other stuff he gets, his Hitdie sure best be a d6; it's one of the few things to balance the chap out. It also becomes alleviated when the fellow eventually gains Damage Reduction (and honestly, how many monsters carry silver weapons?).

It's not the worst book out there...it's just less useful for those who already have the Manual of the Planes, even less so for those who really aren't into the Scarred Lands.

 

[JoeGKushner]

You know, I wrote a review of Edge of Infinity and was in the process of editting it to put up here when my computer went kaput. I've been lazy about getting it fixed, so don't know if I'll be able to get it back (I've yet to try the freezer trick that was recommend to me...) I may write up another review, but it's just frustrating to need to do it twice, so who knows....

That would be great. I love reading other people's reviews. I like seeing what they think, how my play style influences what my reviews. Probably one of the reasons, for example, that i tend to be harder on say adventurers, is that I rarely run them straight out of the box, and when I do, I want to be able to run it, straight out of the box.

Good point about the silver on the damage reduction bit. Still, I guess I just see the d6 hit die as for someone whose more rogue or even minor spellcaster than someone with a fighter's BAB.

When I finish the book, it's looking like another 3 star product in the review section. Hopefully the section on the Zodiac planes will convince me otherwise but...

 

[dsfriii]

Status of Scared Lands??

Sage have you heard anything on the status of Scared Lands? Is it dead?

 

[Nightfall]

dsfriii,

No it's not dead. I'm sure. If it's dead I'll post it.

Joe,

Honestly I think if you compare say Beyond Countless Gateways to this, it's a valid comparision since the Scarred Lands cosmology is vastly different from a Great Wheel config. Which maybe as it should be. Now granted each outer plane is kind of "bland" in that they don't go wildly off kilter. But the occult planes and the Fundamentals I feel are more realistical than the Great Wheel versions. The Zodiac planes are much like the way planes work in BCG, in that some align only at certain times and places.

There are no new deities just additions from Divine and Defeated showing up some where else.

I don't comment on Pr-classes any more because it rapidly become pointless. Either you like them or you don't (Individually or not.) I will say I don't think that's a typo since Moonlight Lord is kind of strong.

I will agree with trick's comment on the planar capture though I'm not 100% sold that the SL deities DON'T need worship. They just survived because they lived on the planes using that substance to sustain them. (Though there's a good reason NOT to put Lethene in the Abyss, mostly because it probably wouldn't contain her. Limbo does.)

Trick, the thing I found good about this book was in the occult section, that there might be more planes beyond. Thus it could very well be, much like BCD, the plane of Time or plane of Mirrors might exist but only accessible in certain instances. Same is true about possible planar conjunctions.

MotP is good I'll grant you. But compared to BCD and Edge, I found it semi-lacking. (Though their statement about Orcus' return I thoroughly enjoyed.)

 

[Trickstergod]

I will agree with trick's comment on the planar capture though I'm not 100% sold that the SL deities DON'T need worship. They just survived because they lived on the planes using that substance to sustain them. (Though there's a good reason NOT to put Lethene in the Abyss, mostly because it probably wouldn't contain her. Limbo does.)

I do hate saying someone else said something without having the source on hand, but Joe had said on the Sword and Sorcery site that gods didn't necessarily need worship; it was more like a drug that, if deprived of, might possibly kill them, but more for cutting a particularly potent addiction cold turkey rather then as if it were like going without food or air.

As for Lethene being in the Abyss, if you actually checked the Divine and the Defeated, you'd see that she wants to be there. Lethene has no desire to return to Scarn. She still has people trying to bring her back, but when Vangal "banished" her to the Abyss, she was pleased as punch. Lethene being imprisoned in Limbo takes absolutely all of the impact out of Vangal showing her mercy, because it means he wasn't being merciful at all, just giving Lethene the same treatment absolutely all the other titans received (sans Golthain, who let himself be killed, and Denev, of course). Lethene should be in the Abyss because that's what makes Vangal's act of mercy such a big deal.

 

[Nightfall]

Trick,

Firstly I do remember that but I always read that and other sources that said if they didn't have worship they'd die out. I mean that's sort of what was implied because of That Which Abides no longer having a name.

Secondly yes Divine and Defeated DID say the Abyss. But that was for the "chaotic" nature of the place. She may have wanted to be in the chaos, but doesn't mean she'll get that kind of chaos. Besides why should Vangal show any remorse to anyone? The guy has about moral compass as Ted Bundy. (Yes it's a nice story trick but for me it never tracked that much.)

 

[Trickstergod]

Secondly yes Divine and Defeated DID say the Abyss. But that was for the "chaotic" nature of the place. She may have wanted to be in the chaos, but doesn't mean she'll get that kind of chaos. Besides why should Vangal show any remorse to anyone? The guy has about moral compass as Ted Bundy. (Yes it's a nice story trick but for me it never tracked that much.)

The Abyss is a chaotic place and it makes little sense for Vangal to be putting Lethene in Limbo. Not to mention that Ian, who wrote the section on Limbo, said that he might have flubbed a bit when it came to placing Lethene in it, or at least neglected to check Divine and the Defeated when writing it.

As for why Vangal would show remorse...that's precisely why it's such a big deal. It makes no sense. It's totally against his character. It's the most peculiar thing in the world. Which is precisely why it's important that she's happily in the Abyss, so that people blink and wonder just what the heck was ticking through Vangal's head when he did that.

A "Holy crap!" is better then a "Big whoop" any day of the week. It's little things like the chaotic evil god of slaughter showing mercy for some bizarre reason that help to keep the Scarred Lands from getting bland, which it's sadly starting to lean towards, as well as make it a bit more 3-dimensional instead of having caricatures of evil like Bane or Cyric.

Just what story potential (even if it's a simple philosophical debate for the characters) in Lethene being imprisoned in Limbo? The same story potential that you'll find with all the other titans. So in otherwords, not much, seeing as how there's 11 more just like it. Vangal showing Lethene mercy, though and letting her go free in the Abyss? At the very least, you could devote a game session to Scarred Lands theologians debating the whys of this. At most, you have a potential apocalypse in the making, be it from Vangal not really being all too merciful, to the possibility that even a being as great and terrible as Vangal can do good - and possibly be redeemed. Or by that same token, that a good god could fall, with a none too large leap of logic...

 

[JoeGKushner]

I found the Edge to be bland. Too much stuff that was slightly tweaked to be SL in origin and not enough meat and potatoes to actually do anything with it. Having the djinni freed offstage, was in my opinion, lame. The Zodiac planes were pretty good and the crunch was pretty good but the book just felt lacking.

And I did go right back to Divine and Defeated and noted that yes, once again, the authors are rewriting things in the settings. Bad authors.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

I found the Edge to be bland. Too much stuff that was slightly tweaked to be SL in origin and not enough meat and potatoes to actually do anything with it. Having the djinni freed offstage, was in my opinion, lame. The Zodiac planes were pretty good and the crunch was pretty good but the book just felt lacking.

And I did go right back to Divine and Defeated and noted that yes, once again, the authors are rewriting things in the settings. Bad authors.

I agree with all this. Edge of Infinity was bland, boring and changed things.
Whole idea of gods being prisoner's in planes (lame idea btw) was clearly spelled out in Player's book to clerics and druids however. I hated it then, I still hate it.

Scarred lands has certainly become "just another setting" in my mind. I still love original books, and we still play Scarred Land games using those, but these newer books aren't really giving so much anything, and they are taking away a lot of setting's originality.

And many newer ideas in Edge of Infinite whatever ripped from MotP or not felt tired somehow. Like some inspirational spark were lost at some stage of writing it. I didn't read anything that would have sparked my intrest there. I was rather disappointed.

I also had feeling it was written by people who have never played high level games/planar adventure unless it was baldur's gate II - throne of bhaal, but that's just a feeling I got, because of bland ideas.
Didn't have much scarred lands feel in it indeed, or anything so interesting either. Too, bad because it was so interesting subject for a book, but maybe they should have written it long time ago.

But then again, Scarred lands has been kind of uni-setting since player's books IMO. I got feeling high-fantasy theme "divane war just about 150 years ago" was bit too much for many writers and they started really quickly alter setting by lessening presence of divane etc. "to give it feeling of more ordinary and common".

This might work for some, certainly don't work for me.