Scarred Lands: Ask the Sage [This keeps up, I'm gonna need a bigger notebook!]

[JoeGKushner]

With the Blood Sea, I was reading it and thinking, "Well, if I wanted a sea based book with pirates in the Blood Sea for my campaign, this would be great. If I wanted to actually run some underwater based adventures or do anything with Kadum, this book sucks." How is Kadum guarded? It notes that the queen has him but how does she have him? I think its strongest when putting game mechanics in there, the monsters, alchemy, PrCs and magic but man, like I said in the review, I was surprised by how much fluff is padded into the PrCs compared to the Relics & Rituals version. If I didn't want to look up the original sea witch and compare it, I would've never known.

I like SL but find that some of the releases are lacking focus. This book couldn't make up its mind if it was a pirate book, a book on the sea, or a book on the blood sea and suffered for it.

Thinking about it a little further, I think that's part of the problem with SL in general. It seems to be floundering. When it was concnetrating on telling the stories going on in Ghelspad, it was fantastic. Books came out as a quick rate, they were almost all focused on the eastern side of the land and had many potential tie ins.

Termania and a few sourcebooks latter, some of them now trying to be inclusive of that land, seem to be well, weaker in their overall utility and the whole land itself seems to suffer. The lack of web updates and support is also another huge dent in the SL folio, especially when people have short attention spans and new settings are hitting the shelves at near record marks.

 

[Nightfall]

I can understand that reasoning Joe. But I do think you'll find Edge more "centered" since it doesn't need to be "all inclusive". At least I didn't find it to be.

Even so I do agree that some stuff that came out after the SLCS: Termana hasn't been as focused. But we'll just have to wait and see when new SL stuff comes along in the fall/winter. But I also agree we could use more web updates. Trouble is there's just no way to get freelancers and everyone under the developers to meet up and discuss this at the moment. Also...

Spoiler

The web master of the WW/S&SS site sucks. Just ask anyone in the know. Conrad isn't well liked by many.

 

[JoeGKushner]

You know, this may sound crazy, but if the web master isn't up to supporting the mammoth that is WW/SSS, then he needs to go, or get help.

The setting is too huge to have the minimum amount of material it does currently.

One thing that I thing may have derailed the setting a bit, is the splat books. I know that sounds crazy, but because so much of it was game mechanic focused, they werent' useful to the same degree that a book on the actual setting was. Does that make sense?

For instance, I want to GM the SL. As a GM, would I be better off served with getting Shelzar, city of Sins, or one of the splat books? As a GM, the former. (Great book btw!) This isn't to say that the splatbooks were bad, I thought most were above average in most areas (save that white space issue with the PrCs!), it's just that they didn't do a whole lot for the setting as a whole.

I'm a little worried about the next land mass as it's apparently not even in the blood sea range and thus indicates it's even further away, weakening support for core books even more. It probably wouldn't be as bad if the setting was still as heavily supported, but with its lack of consistent good books...

 

[Trickstergod]

All right, a few comments...

First, a 3 out of 5 isn't sinful. Most books should be a 3. Not just Scarred Lands, but in general. Just a general comment on the review process; I think there's far too many 4's at times. A 4 should stick out above the crowd of books out there - as it is, while I generally trust to 2's being 2's and 3's being 3's, 4's and 5's are often just this side of meaningless to me. Having read a good chunk of Scarred Lands products, there are a few gems that stick out above the others, or even non-Scarred Lands books, but, in general, mechanics alone keep the books from being truly spectacular. Blood Sea I can't comment on firsthand, having yet to read it and little interest, but based off of the Seaborn prestige class previewed in the quarterly that apparently wasn't fixed in the Blood Sea book, it bodes ill for the book. The problem? Well, take a look at the Base Attack Bonus Progression and Saving Throw Progression. While it's all well and good to not use the standard method for advancing those, when previous setting books have already used the standard method and this one lacks an explanation as to why the change has been made...it just looks sloppy and like the author of the Prestige Class is a touch ignorant to the d20 system. Same with the discrepencies in distance from Ghelspad to Termana (text and map disagree).

Couple that with Joe's own comments, and the 3 seems dead-on. Most books, in my opinion, do not earn the 4 (or even 5) they may be marked with; 3's the average, the middle-ground, the place where most books should fall.

As for the White-Wolf and Sword and Sorcery Studios web-master...

Keep in mind that the Scarred Lands isn't exactly his priority; or, more to the point, his employers priority. That would be the World of Darkness itself. Not that either setting has much web-support, I'd say. But, then again, there's also the various chats that he has to take care of, that are rather lacking from a few other, better up-dated sites. Now, perhaps some help would be good, and hey, I could certainly add in my own less-then-complimentary comments about the web-master, but, hey...so it goes.

Still, some more errata would be nice, as well as putting up some of the information that should have made it into other books, but didn't. The Ignan template finally was offered up, but there's still that information on Monster Manual monsters and how they fit into the Scarred Lands that was supposed to be in the Creature Collection Revised, but wasn't, as well as two monsters mentioned in the Termana hardcover that were supposed to be statted out in Savage Bestiary, but weren't.

Focus: I agree on this. The latest spat of Scarred Lands books do seem to lack it. Especially the Player's Guides, now that you mention it, Joe. In trying to make a set of books that were both useful for the Scarred Lands and useful outside the Scarred Lands, they failed. Maybe not miserably, but I think the setting material itself was weak at times while, conversely, still often indelibly stamped into the books. All around I found them a bit bland. Not without merit, but they'd probably have done a bit better if the writers were more focused on the setting then universality.

It also doesn't help that there seems to be a degree of ignorance to past books or the setting in general. Like with Edge of Infinity (Lethene's in the Abyss - mentioned more then once in Divine and the Defeated, in one case fairly directly - and rather pleased to be there to boot, not furiously trying to escape from Limbo...). Or the Faithful and the Forsaken - charduni are no more capable of telling the other gods to bugger off then the paladins of Mithril are. Or the Termana hardcover/Blood Sea. Termana mentions that the Gray Isle was the first and last stop for ships moving between Ghelspad and Termana. Or did the Heartsblood islands only rise up after Kadum was tossed in? Eh.

As well as the general diffusion of unique setting elements all around. Forsaken elves? High elves once again. Termana's main problem? Yuan-ti, centaurs and gnolls. Elemental seals? Cracked open, gone. Heck, while Echoes of the Past arguably makes a few new ones, they come at the cost of killing the Scarred Lands setting to a degree, and just putting in something new...

Asherak...eh, don't know about that. I'm not sure where it's situated, but I'd rather assumed it existed on the eastern shore of the Blood Sea. Potentially the Blood Sea map shows its eastern most border reaching out to relatively clean water, but keep in mind that Asherak quite possibly hasn't been mapped out yet, and almost definitely wasn't when the Blood Sea was nearing print, thus why it's lacking from the (erroneus, anyway) map.

 

[Anabstercorian]

If my character is a Blessed of Mesos, and thus gains an Arcane Devourer as a Cohort, can the Arcane Devourer be advanced in levels or hit dice?

 

[Nightfall]

Ana,

I'd say either. It's possible for it to take class levels if you wish. But probably better overall to advance by HD much like an animal companion.

Trick,

Three things:

Firstly just because YOU personally think this rating system is wrong doesn't mean it is. There are some books out there that are indeed WORTHY of a 4. Indeed a great deal more than you probably know about or have even considered. So while I disagree with Joe's assessment, I won't say he's wrong to give it 3. It's perfectly acceptable based on his evalutions that it got a 3. I'm just saying in an overall SL context, I'd rate it higher. You might disagree, but that's your opinion.

Two,

Regardless of priority, I do think if he's to be a webmaster he should be more like Ian of wolfspoor.org. There at least there are plenty of people helping Ian out AND keeping the site much fresher. The trouble there is said webmaster takes it all on himself and doesn't try to get others to help him delegate responibilities to ensure that things like web updates, web previews, etc, are done. No one man should run a site. But that's what WW has done. This is why I feel, much like Joe, there should be a changing of the guard. ESPECIALLy in light of the fact, the boards themselves are clunky, badly managed, and I might add, don't encourage much communication between people.

Thirdly,

I STRONGLY disagree the problem began with the Player's Guides. I do think perhaps Faithful and Forsaken opened up too much but even so, the focus or lack of it, isn't the problem. The problem is, in my mind, we have only ONE developer (Ari and the rest are too consumed with WoD at the moment), added to the fact production values, indeed production overall has waned for WW and it shows in the products they produced. While I respect the writers, freelancers and the rest, I think there might be a need to change over management of the company to make it not only better for the gamers, but better for the guys that have to work inside the company. These are just my observations.

 

[Trickstergod]

Of course, Nightfall, just because I think the way people rate books (not the rating system itself, which is fine) is wrong doesn't mean it isn't, either.

Look at your own collection, and then add in all the books you've read that you may not own. Take a look at the more similar ones. Give a mental click in your head as to what you'd rate them all, roughly, and how similar books would compare to each other.

The average should come to about a 3. Maybe there's a chunk of books that come out to 4's and 2's, or heck, even 5's and 1's, but so long as you've a fairly sizable collection - and I feel you do, Nightfall - many of those books should come out to be a 3. If not, then either the collection isn't very large, or a decent amount of your purchases were done after having read good reviews and the like. Or simple dumb luck.

A 4 should stand out within its niche. A 5 should stand out as something nearly no gamer should be without. If there's a bunch of 4's, they cease to stand out, and may as well be 3's. Sure, the quality may truly have been raised from previous books, but a 4 should stand out. Better quality books means that the standards for higher ratings needs to be raised.

Anyway, yes, Ian does a great job. But I see no chats on Wolf Spoor that need moderating, nor do the forums seem overly busy. Besides, I wasn't saying the Sword and Sorcery site couldn't do with a little help, perhaps, or possibly even a new webmaster, so much as pointing out a few things that apparently hadn't even been considered.

As for the one developer comment: am I mistaken, or isn't that how it's been with most of the World of Darkness lines? Besides, more developers isn't always helpful - a look at the Ravenloft line (or, heck, even Changeling) would reveal that. Not to mention that it's unlikely management is being shifted anywhere.

 

[Nightfall]

1) No but it's hardly right either.

2) That is understandable but my point about yours is that you're not factoring today's needs. Look at EN World. Morrus may handle the site updates on occassion but there is a many handed approach to maintaining, updating, and making sure all the aspects of a site are done. This is what a webmaster is supposed to do. Get people to help him out by delegating. Otherwise you end up with an inadequate site.

3) I wouldn't know about WoD, but I always thought they had more with Ravenloft. At least at the beginning of it, with the Kargatane semi-involved. I think additional support can be useful especially when trying to compete with the various products that come out. While I'll admit this does lead to divergence, it can also lead to ways in which things might get done better. My other point is that perhaps a change in management is necessary. That in itself might make WW/S&SS more productive and responsive to not only gamer needs but developers' as well.

 

[Nightfall]

Okay after that debate let's move along to more questions folks.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Any inside hints as to what's coming down the pipeline for Q4 this year? SL seems pretty quite on a few fronts as SSS grows into other product lines.