[Scarred Lands] Got the Strange Lands book

[Zelda Themelin]

That's why I said it would be more convincing if the Gray Man was CE.

I know nothing more about that than I said, which amounts to "There is miniscule evidence that it might have been planned for an earlier book."
I'm not trying to defend the change, but I'm also not overly annoyed at it. For me, it's one :\ in a lot of . Seeing the word chaos/chaotic in four places where, according to continuity, law/lawful should be, doesn't devalue the book too much, IMHO.

Well, this is not directed at you, you do have a point there, but I have opinions.

Little thing, yes, but there was too much those in previous book.
Change should be respected and not just used because someone forgets or doesn't care or likes something more than original idea, but doesn't care enough to explain why the change happened.

These same things coming form writers who just forget where Lethene was supposed to be (Vangal's Abyss, not Limbo, hello!), and who forget that Belsameth is deity of Madness, not Enkili. But of course Limbo was place that caused insanity (of course rules didn't expain what kind insanity it meant), just because, hey it's Chaotic neutral, and that equals insanity, right? No.
If you check what most common forms of insanity are in real world, very rarely they have chaotic nature, people with mental problems are actually more easy to predict in most cases.
Ok, I liked old planar book 1st edition Ad&D and it's maddness causing winds of Pandemonium, which was also sort of prison plane, but I really dislike concept contradictions. Well, just thinking that might have been inspiration for those ideas.

Just mentioning to point out that writers have commonly ignored alignment and deity's domains.

And there was matter of one elven god too, but that's kind of overdone issue.

Of course that little thing is not something to ruin otherwise good book for me and I am waiting it to be actually reviewed or come to my store so I can see for myself. I hope it's a cool book.

 

[Trickstergod]

I know nothing more about that than I said, which amounts to "There is miniscule evidence that it might have been planned for an earlier book."
I'm not trying to defend the change, but I'm also not overly annoyed at it. For me, it's one :\ in a lot of . Seeing the word chaos/chaotic in four places where, according to continuity, law/lawful should be, doesn't devalue the book too much, IMHO.

Oh, it could be just one problem out of an entire book; however, I think it's indicative of part of the problems that plagued the Scarred Lands up until and now including the end. And something that for me, having yet to browse through it at a book store, seems a bad sign.

I'll just have to see in the next week or so, though, when I get around to giving it a peek.

 

[Nightfall]

Look again.

Doh! Stupid me only looked in Monsters of Asherak and Fenrilik for some stupid reason. Sorry Ari.

Trick, about CE undeath gods: Sue me. I like Orcus. He's the ONLY Demon Prince I've liked since I started playing in 2nd edition. If I was allowed, I would have played a cleric of his, but no one wanted me to. Now thankfully I could, concieveable via being CN and believing in his power that way.

As for why change? Why not? Just because you feel the change was unwarranted doesn't necessarily make it so. So yes it's annoying perhaps but it certainly may be the fact the because of the way Asherak worships it death gods, Otossel became CE, at least in Asherak. That's what I thought I said before...

(Also like to state for the record and for all: Forgotten Realms plays MININAL if any impact on how I believe the Scarred Lands should act. For me, the Scarred Lands should be a High magic, low magic item count, based on players being able to survive the harsh climate, a some times erstiwhile arcane spellcasting (at least if they want to use armor), with tons of monsters fighting the PCS just as hard as they do each other. Toss in ancient ruins, LN necromancy, tight nit but flexible panethon that actually needs worshippers, and you have my idea of the Scarred Lands.)

(En, yes I know, but for me Orcus is the ONLY true Undeath god around.)

Anyway my two cents.

 

[Zelda Themelin]

(En, yes I know, but for me Orcus is the ONLY true Undeath god around.)

Anyway my two cents.

Oh, nice you like change, but my problem is that change is just put because someone who put it there wanted to see same Orcus-connection (or chaotic evil undead thing) as you, and didn't have guts to tell anyone the real reason.

It's a bit like someone changes name of minor character in the middle of book series, and doesn't bother to say it happened.

Or like the spelling change of Essence in Shadow World books (by ICE games at the time) long ago into "cooler" form. They re-writed history of cosmos too with Emer-boxed set, but at least they had guts to put some half-metagamish wise-ass remark there "I changed my mind" by empress something (don't recall the name, names were really hard to spell in that world).

I know how you feel about Orcus. Mine personal favourite is Graz'zt, but I woudn't want to port him out of my Greyhawk cosmos. I like my unique things unique, you see. This is why changing scarred lands to avarage typical D&D fantasy-world sucked for me big time.

Mmh, Orcus's wand was such a cool artifact during 1st edition ad&d, I was fun of touch it and die effect. Made it seem, well real relic.
How 3rd edition handles artifacts is way to lame for me.

My idea of scarn is high magic, high monster, low on normally working magical items, but not not so low item-count if you go to right places or steal/get them as favor/by killing from some npc:s /monsters.
Ancient ruins, oh yes. My dm prefers Slarecian ones, I prefer a bit less alien ones when I am dm.

Divane powers aren't in our games dependant on mortals worshipping them, but pretty addicted to it instead. Mortals didn't create them, titans did. Scarn is not Discworld and Small Gods by Piers Anthony.

Oh, yes, if anyone didn't check there, this is what

KCHRISTOPHERUS says about Strange Lands at White Wolf forums:
anyone who has the book want's to mention something more?
"
There is a wealth of new spells (60), feats (39, some are totem feats w/ special rules), magic items and other items, and creatures (73). There are some new playable race descriptions (5: Wrack Elves, Ubantu, Kobolds, Tatsuri [aka dragonmen; appearancewise they have some varied dragon traits], Winter Gnomes, and some wild prestige classes too (5: Acolyte of the Shell [i.e., Asherak tortoise], Adept of the Rent Shield [Vangal devotee and arcane spellcaster w/ a martial twist and heavy feat requirements, including proficiency w/ a battleaxe?!], Avatar of Chaos [basically an Enkili devotee and divine spellcaster w/ luck, storm immunity and causing, cause strife, and summon elemental abilities], Unseen Eye [assassin/inquisitor devoted to the lawful clergy of an Asheraki theopoli], and Ice-walker [cold lands twist on a ranger (ranger spell list access included and then some: all spells with cold descriptor) w/ turn/command/rebuke ability against creatures w/ cold/fire subtype). Plus, there are 4 new true rituals and 3 magical tatoos (the latter based on the Dragon Lands).

Page numbers for the history, place, etc. descriptions for each land are as follows: 8-28 Asherak, 72-84 Dragon Lands, and 112-116 Fenrilik. Just how limited that aspect of the book is I can't say yet. What I've skimmed through has contained some very interesting ideas, though. "

 

[Nightfall]

Zelda,

Firstly we don't know why the change was made. All we do know is that it exists, much like the flipflop on Orcus from Faiths and Panethons to PGtF.

Secondly he's my favorite deity of undeath for both Greyhawk AND Faerun. (Ghostwalk too.) Scarred Lands wise, I'd doubt he'd work as well overall, and if things go as I predict, he'll not appear as such. (Unique fiends in the Scarred Lands should be unique.)

Dunno about "addicted" but I feel that if you don't have some way to make the gods "rise" in power or fall via worship, then it becomes harder to believe they need mortals like the books have said pretty much consistantly.

Low working magic items...I guess I can see that but I prefer to have one use and/or multiple use items (scrolls, potions and wands) be more accurate. Reason for that is they have inherent one shot properties unlike constant items like staffs, rods, rings, wonderous items and of course weapons and armor. This also makes, in my mind, special materials MORE special since if you need a good weapon to overcome specific damage reduction, it makes sense to have it on a regular masterworked item than a magical one. (But that's me.)

Anyway glad KChris came through.

 

[Y.O.Morales]

[original comment deleted]

The boneweed and the storm harvester are in (I'll use the latter for my upcoming campaign, as well as the cactus imp, dragon lice, kelklic sand bettle, and others).

By the way, I like the ashwyrm, but cannot find what type of breath weapon it uses (fire? smoke? lightning?)

 

[Y.O.Morales]

Hey Ari:

You say on the preface: "I look forward to seeing you in S&S's next world" (p. 4)

So, are there real plans to develop another world, or that was just saying? Because it would be ironic to cancel Scarred Lands to make another world (considering that the reasons were due to the d20 market situation).

 

[Zelda Themelin]

Hey, Nightfall, could you explain to me why you find Orcus so cool. Have you misunderstood that he is more cool and less evil, or do like the whole concept? I never found much game use for him, unless you count Throne of Bloodstone campaing I once long time ago run. Fun.

I know you aren't responsible for the change, and it's nice you like it, but I dislike it. Nothing to do how useful that being is in my game, but because of those things me and Trickstergod pointed out. He says things much better than me. My english bad.

Well, in our games gods don't need mortals in total sense (some of them don't need them even less like Vangal, as even has been pointed out in books), another god who doesn't so much care for direct worship (in our games) is Enkili. Oh well, of course mortal's relationship with gods was thing that made them so powerful they could snap control of reality from titans and partially win them. And titan's killing their worshippers was sort of very painful experience to more empathic gods, so painful actually that it drove them on the brink of insanity (and when it's divane, it's really hard for reality, and brings need for change).

Magic items in our games are not that rare, there is quite a lot of them, in a way. However, total of 50 % of all items made after the war has "features", and about 25 % is just plain cursed. Well, items made ever since destruction of Mesos. Old items work fine, but they are likely to be cursed too, if found lying in some creepy spots we usually adventure in. I am not that mean when I dm, when players make items, if they bother to quest for materials and stuff, when trying to make something more permanent. Scrolls, potions, wands, quite common. Mostly clerical still.

Clerical potions and scrolls are more common, they tend not backfire so often, but even then, some more powerful items of that type tend to go hayware.

Hunting for special materials is really popular, since those have "magic" properties without the misfire changes.

Insanity among arcane casters, sorcerers specially (from minor issues to more serious) is rather common.
we also had "sorcerer paths" before bloodline stuff were published, now be use some them too. Actually one idea we like, more the idea, than those boring half-though forced spell-lists.


These things have changed a bit in one campaing where Mesos was resurrected. Not one I dm, so don't know all the details.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Hey Ari:

You say on the preface: "I look forward to seeing you in S&S's next world" (p. 4)

So, are there real plans to develop another world, or that was just saying? Because it would be ironic to cancel Scarred Lands to make another world (considering that the reasons were due to the d20 market situation).

I don't know of any specific plans for a new world, but I know that SSS isn't closing its doors. Whatever it may be--a new setting, a series of unrelated sourcebooks (like R&R: Olympus and R&R: Excalibur), or what have you--they'll be publishing something for the foreseeable future.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Okay, guys, I've been trying to stay out of the whole alignment debate, but I'm getting a bit tired of seeing people disparage the efforts of writers and developers whom I respect a great deal. So I'm going to point something out.

The avatars presented in Strange Lands are, with the exception of Jandaveos, specific to Asherak. These are how the various demi-gods/lesser gods manifest on that continent.

Go back and look at Campaign Setting: Termana. It was in that book that we introduced the notion that the gods are worshipped differently--and even manifest/act differently--in different cultures. The same holds true of Asherak. In Ghelspad, Nemorga is a single deity. In Asheraki religion, "the Ne Morga" is a tri-partite entity, three related demigods. Otossal is one of them, and the Asheraki view of Otossal is chaotic. This isn't us ignoring prior material. This isn't a mistake. It's a deliberate change in perspective to highten the cultural differences, and it's not unique to Strange Lands.

Now, if that's a concept you dislike, fine. That's your right, and your opinion, and I can respect that. But it's a solid concept, with precedent in other fantasy settings and fiction (and certainly in the real world, with the "same" religion having differences in different regions). And it's quite deliberate, not due to carelessness or lack of interest in what's come before.