Schroedinger's Wounding (Forked Thread: Disappointed in 4e)

[Baron Opal]

As I read this thread, a thought, among others, comes to mind.

Warlord healing is through encouragement and mental focussing. Like a drill instructor telling his men to push on through danger and pain.

Artificer healing is mechanical. The muscle and bone restored according to some Platonic Ideal.

Cleric healing is an act of grace. A blessed touch that knits together torn flesh as well as a battered mind.

So, warlords and other martial sources can only heal damage above Blooded, since those are the hit points representing drive, mental stamina and determination. Artificers and other arcane source healing can only heal hit points lost below Blooded since those hit points represent actual physical damage. The divine source can restore any hit point loss as it can address any wound, be it mental or physical.

 

[Raven Crowking]

With a day of bed rest, he'd recover 8; 2 per level, doubled with assistance.

-Hyp.

That's a day of bed rest, which isn't the day he took the wounds.

RC

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That's a day of bed rest, which isn't the day he took the wounds.

RC

That is a different, but is it meaningful? Does natural healing only kick in a day later?
What is so special about 24 hours compared to 6 hours?

Does everyone in the sandbox operate only in 24 hours interval? Couldn't, say, a rivaling group of adventures use those 6 hours the PCs are resting to enter the dungeon and steal the prize? Couldn't a BBEG steal the artifact he needs for his ritual at dawn and start the ritual at dusk, being done no later then midnight?
And on the flip side, is everything 24 hours apart from each other? Is the Lair of the Dragon 24 travel hours from the Tower of Despair, and the Tower of Despair 24 travel hours from the Elven City of Halfmoon? Does the serial killer roaming Silver River take at least 24 hours to find, mutilate and kill his victim?

 

[Raven Crowking]

That is a different, but is it meaningful?

Yes.

And it is the benefits of medical attention, not the benefits of natural healing, that only kick in a day later.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

As I read this thread, a thought, among others, comes to mind.

Warlord healing is through encouragement and mental focussing. Like a drill instructor telling his men to push on through danger and pain.

Artificer healing is mechanical. The muscle and bone restored according to some Platonic Ideal.

Cleric healing is an act of grace. A blessed touch that knits together torn flesh as well as a battered mind.

So, warlords and other martial sources can only heal damage above Blooded, since those are the hit points representing drive, mental stamina and determination. Artificers and other arcane source healing can only heal hit points lost below Blooded since those hit points represent actual physical damage. The divine source can restore any hit point loss as it can address any wound, be it mental or physical.

Mechanically, I like that.

Of course, like any other sort of healing / hp, there is room for comedy gold:

Fred the Fighter: Argh, I am injured nigh unto death. Wilst not my erstwhile comrades and brothers-in-arms not help me?
Andy the Artificer: Sure. Let me apply these salves and bandages to stop the bleeding.
Will the Warlord: And then I'll come over and shout at you some, soon you'll be all better!
Clive the Cleric: You know, you could just let me help for once...
Andy: No! This is an important experiment to see if I can match your divine abilities!
Will: And if I don't get to shout at him, what use am I? WHAT USE AM I?

I now return you to your schedules thread, sorry.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Yes.

And it is the benefits of medical attention, not the benefits of natural healing, that only kick in a day later.

How is the 18 hour difference critical? Is it impossible in a sandbox to make 6 hours mean a meaningful delay, and you need 24 hour increment. It's obvious there is a time difference, but does this really make the entire style of play so different?

 

[Fifth Element]

So, warlords and other martial sources can only heal damage above Blooded, since those are the hit points representing drive, mental stamina and determination. Artificers and other arcane source healing can only heal hit points lost below Blooded since those hit points represent actual physical damage. The divine source can restore any hit point loss as it can address any wound, be it mental or physical.

Interesting. But this assumes that all wounds above bloodied are non-physical, and all wounds below bloodied are physical. Which will generally not be the case.

 

[Raven Crowking]

How is the 18 hour difference critical? Is it impossible in a sandbox to make 6 hours mean a meaningful delay, and you need 24 hour increment. It's obvious there is a time difference, but does this really make the entire style of play so different?

If 6 hours is meaningful, doesn't it follow that 18 hours is three times as meaningful?

It does in my book.

Also, while I would certainly agree with the implication that natural healing in 3.x is too fast, I would not therefore agree that making it even faster doesn't matter. Quite the opposite.

As I said earlier, in 3e, a high enough level party can have a wizard teleport them just about anywhere. If the game system then assumed that a fighter of that level ought to be able to teleport himself just about anywhere, 'cause, y'know, he could do it if a wizard were there, and this ability is also not magical, it wouldn't make any more -- or less -- sense then the same claim re: healing.

And, you know, the fighter being able to "teleport anywhere" might work in an episodic game, where it could mimic the ability of, say, James Bond to get where he needs to be in order to be in the next scene.

If you can understand the objections that might be raised re: teleporting fighters, you should be able to understand the objections being raised re: instant healing (just add shouting). Neither one is necessarily a problem if you want your game to include that sort of thing.


RC

 

[Obryn]

Also, while I would certainly agree with the implication that natural healing in 3.x is too fast, I would not therefore agree that making it even faster doesn't matter. Quite the opposite.

So, have you made any changes to slow down natural healing in 3e? If not, why?

-O

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

If 6 hours is meaningful, doesn't it follow that 18 hours is three times as meaningful?

Well, on some level yes, on some level not. I think it should be possible to make a sandbox work with 6 hour rest periods just as well as 24 hour rest periods or 48 hour rest periods.

But I also believe that one of the biggest time factors should be travel times, not bed rest. (Speaking of Teleport - that of course would be very disruptive, too.) Interestingly, it seems the 4E shared my thoughts - healing happens over night, Long-Range teleportation is difficult to achieve, limited and reserved for higher levels.

And, you know, the fighter being able to "teleport anywhere" might work in an episodic game, where it could mimic the ability of, say, James Bond to get where he needs to be in order to be in the next scene.

If you can understand the objections that might be raised re: teleporting fighters, you should be able to understand the objections being raised re: instant healing (just add shouting). Neither one is necessarily a problem if you want your game to include that sort of thing.

But I still don't understand how you actually deal with Clerics healing people in a day or less, or Wizards teleporting (or the Cleric Wind Walking) the party to its destination.

I don't see how it is relevant that theoretically the Fighter might never get healed in 24 (or 6) hours if on his own, when practically he is never on his own and will be healed by the party's Cleric or other magical healing in short time. What's stopping the sandbox player from using a Wand of Cure Light Wounds or the parties Cleric to get him his hit points back?

I ask this specifically because I know that a lot of the design decisions made to 4E are based on how the game is actually played and avoiding the rules first pretending something different and then still providing all the tools to play that way. There is no "standard buff spell list I cast in the morning or upon entering the dungeon" in 4E, because they just confuse the issue, by giving you first your "regular" stats and then adding some extra abilities that you will have on you all the time, making the regular stats irrelevant except maybe for introducing some math (errors).

So, similarly, yeah, theoretically healing should take days or weeks, but people would just use a Cleric or magical items to heal themselves to full hp over a short time period. So, away with that nonsense of slow natural healing. Handwave it, explain it with wounds still visible but overcome by moral or pain resistance, or performing some healing ritual, it doesn't matter, the end effect is the same - the party is up and running the next day, whether you have full hit point recovery as RAW or not.