Sci-Fi Channel finally discusses Farscape’s cancellation

[Mallus]

Hey, come back...

I think I am done with the hostility I have encountered in this thread...[snip]

[snip]...If people cannot admit that Farscape is more difficult to get in to than ER or Friends.

[snip]...I also personally think Stargate it is a lot easier to jump in to.

1) Hey, I was the guy that got accused of being dumb

2) I can readily admit that. I think you're overstating the oppositions case...

3) I just started watching Farscape, and I agree. And as a recent convert to Stargate, I strongly disgree with the way the SciFi channel exec. descibed the show. There is a considerable amount of history/backstory/continuity.

You can call it bias toward Farscape, but I call bias towards good writing. Farscape was a dynamic show. Characters changed over time. Made choices. Their actions had consequences. These are the basic priciples of drama, and it was so nice to see a SF show that adhered to them, in favor of more traditonal static characters whose actions seemed to be dictated by writers who had little faith in their audiences intellect, rather than in the fictional world around them...

 

[Storm Raven]

I liked Farscape. However, I felt it had become to serialized. The biggest evidence of this for ME was the fact that I tried to watch several of the new episodes and simply could not figure out what was going on. That was enough evidence for me that the show was too serialized.

And your experience is an indicator of what works for you. It is not necessarily a good indicator of what works overall. I found Stargate harder to jump into than Farscape, and I jumped into both when they were already ongoing series.

I think the bias in this thread has overwhelmed it. If people cannot admit that Farscape is more difficult to get in to than ER or Friends, they have gone off the deep end in their support for Farscape to the point they can no longer see reality. That debate is not worth having. The sky IS blue.

No one is comparing Farscape to Friends. ER, on the other hand, has a lot of compexity. Sure, it is still a drama set in a hospital emergency room, but Farscape is still a space opera set on Moya. ER has long term character development, cast changes (look back at how many cast members have been changed from just two seasons ago), long term storylines and so on. It is pretty heavily serialized.

Plus, almost all currently successful shows are heavily serialized to a great degree. Even reality crapfests like Survivor are basically serialized drama.

As for Stargate, I think people have no clue just how much of a massive fan base is behind that show. I personally believe it is a far larger fanbase than Farscape. You may not like the show, but I don't think you should speak to it's fan support without finding out a bit about it first.

And this is evidence that you are just making stuff up. In the season with, with Farscape in the earlier time slot, and Stargate immediately following, Farscape had ratings very similar to Stargate's when Stargate was moved to the earlier time slot. Airing in the later time slot, Stargate posted numbers similar to those that Farscape had when it was moved to the later time slot. Effectively, when the shows flipped placed in the lineup, they also appear to have flipped ratings.

This is not evidence that Stargate has a "far larger fanbase". It is evidence that they have similar fanbases. Unless you have secret data not captured by the ratings numbers, you are just engaging in wishful thinking when you say that Stargate has a larger fanbase.

Insulting it by comparing it to inexpensive shows like Xena (no "Z" by the way) is unecessary and just goes to show more bias on the issue. People have lost their perspective.

Xena generally posted ratings higher than either farscape or Stargate ever have when it was on. You may not like Xena, but your tastes do not determine what is popular.

I also personally think Stargate it is a lot easier to jump in to. I tried jumping into Farscape and Stargate around the same time - I suceeded with Stargate, and failed with Farscape. That's evidence enough for me.

And I did the same and had the reverse problem. I have since gone back and gotten into Stargate because I watched the earlier episodes, but I found Farscape far easier to get into. Does my experience mean that there is lots of evidence that Stargate is too serialized?

No, I think it is evidence that Farscape and Stargate are both serialized. And for a Sci-Fi executive to point to serialization as the reason for cancelling Farscape is just being disingenuous. I suppose this works on Crossing Over fans, they are used to being lied to and accept crap. It does work as well on people who bother to look at the numbers.

I fully expect that if there is ever a fan effort for Stargate to save that show, that those fans cannot call on Farscape fans to help them out. This despite the fact that Farscape fans called on Stargate fans to help them out, and this Stargate fan contributed $25 to the Farscape effort despite not watching the show anymore.

And why would that be? No one has said that Stargate was a bad show. The most that has been said is that if Farscape is "serialized" and difficult to watch because of that, the same arguments apply to Stargate.

I'm done with this thread though. If honest discussion cannot be had without anger and insults being directed at any dissenting voice, it isn't worth it. And I'm sure everything I just wrote will be angrily and insultingly denied

No, just the stuff that is refuted by ratings numbers, and a discounting of the stuff that is based purely on your opinion with nothing else backing it up.

 

[Staffan]

No when the Mayor became a giant monster and they blew up the High School. The first season was pretty straight Buffy vs Vampires. It seems that killing Vampires is only a side job for her anymore.

First season Buffy had 12 episodes (13 if you count the pilot as two, which I don't). In seven of those, vampires were not the primary antagonists:
The Witch (baddie: Amy's mom, a witch)
Teacher's Pet (baddie: substitute teacher, a mantis monster)
The Pack (baddies: the pack of students possessed by the hyena spirits, as well as the animal caretaker who wanted to get them for himself)
I Robot... You Jane (baddie: Moloch the cyberdemon)
The Puppet Show (baddie: demon who needs body parts to stay alive)
Nightmares (baddie: none really, the cause of badness is a boy who's in a coma though one could make the case that the boy's baseball coach is the baddie)
Out of Mind, Out of Sight (baddie: the girl who had become invisible through being ignored)

In second season, ten of the episodes focused on non-vampires (Some Assembly Required, Inca Mummy Girl, Reptile Boy, Halloween, The Dark Age, Ted, Bad Eggs, Phases, Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered, Killed by Death, I Only Have Eyes For You and Go Fish), and one could make the case that two of the three double-episodes (What's My Line and Surprise/Innocence - the third being Becoming) have at least half the action focused on non-vampires (Order of Taraka for What's My Line and the Judge in Surprise/Innocence) - again, only about 50% vampness.

Granted, season 3 had *more* non-vampire episodes, but the show has been about other things than vampires from the beginning. The first episode even finishes up with Giles saying something about the veritable cornucopia of nasties attracted to the Hellmouth.

 

[Bamphalas]

Sci-Lie

"Why bash Sci-Fi?"

Because they LIE.

Sci-Fi had renewed Farscape for 2 seasons--- 4th and 5th. Farscape had been a serialized show from the very beginning. Had the serial nature of the program caused it to lose ratings points, they would have never opted for 2 more seasons, after 3 VERY successful serialized seasons. Shortly after they renewed, they had gotten a new head who admitted to not liking space shows. Shortly after, Sci-Fi channel announced that they would be attempting a rebranding that would include additional paranormal shows, and one space show.
This is where I believe sabotage took place. They had already renewed Farscape for two more seasons, and took on Stargate. In order to pursue their rebranding they would have to drop one of the shows. This is where they exploited an out-clause in their contract for Farscape. IF in the first 4 episodes of season 4 the ratings dipped, they could use the out clause to opt-out of season 5. So they switched the show's times, and reduced the advertising to next to nothing. Established viewers didn't know when the season was going to start, and new viewers had no idea there was such a show. Thus with people not knowing when the show was on, the ratings dipped (slightly, but just enough for the out clause), and mission was accomplished.
However, instead of letting the Henson crew know, they let them continue to produce season 4 as if there would be a season 5 (so storylines assume S5). Once the crew wrapped up filming of season 4, that's when they were told. There was no press release, just a hush-hush cancelling. They even inserted an artificial hiatus in the middle of season 4, with episode 4x11 being touted as the "season finale". During that hiatus, there were no Farscape episodes being shown (except for a marathon on a day no one watches TV). It was only after the cancellation was leaked, that they sent out a press release. They kept quiet about it, and refused to comment for quite a long time. If it wasn't for the fan uproar about the cancellation, I doubt Sci-Fi would have ever addressed it, as episode 4x12 was even advertised as the season premiere. This stinks of an attempt to make it seem like they had given the 2 more seasons that were promised. BTW, the ratings dip has been described as about 3 Neilsen households not tuning in.
Since the Farscape cancellation, I have not watched a single minute of Sci-Fi programming. Since the start of the second half of season 4, I tune in JUST for Farscape. Once Farscape is over, I will remove the channel from my tuner.

Also, others have been comparing Farscape and Stargate to shows like ER and Xena. Just note: you can't compare the ratings earned by cable shows like FS & SG1 to a network show like ER (with it's massive network backing) and nationally syndicated shows like Xena (played nearly everywhere at different time slots). Sci-Fi channel is not available in all markets, and even in the markets they're on, their viewers need to subscribe.
Compared to many network shows, Farscape is inexpensive to produce. Filmed in Australia, with actors who are virtually unknown outside that country, it cost over 1 million per episode with less than half paid by SFC. Compare that to say, "Friends" whose actors each get paid more than that, or other network sci-fi shows like "Enterprise" that cost well over what FS does.

 

[Umbran]

For the record - I watched ER quite a bit at it's beginning. I went back to it after a couple of years break, and found that gettign into it again took too much effort....

However, my guess is that this really isn't teh point. How many series grow substantially after their second or third season? Serialization may inhibit growth, but it also increases loyalty.

Take a look at Andromeda, folks. Here's a show that has decreased it's level of serialization since last season, supposedly in an attempt to allow new viewers in, to help it grow. Interestingly, it used to be #1 among syndicated shows. Now it's #2. Viewership is down 27% from where it was one year previously...

Ergo - serialization is not the clear cut boogie-man. There's more to the story than that.

 

[jdavis]

I think I am done with the hostility I have encountered in this thread.

(snip)

I'm done with this thread though. If honest discussion cannot be had without anger and insults being directed at any dissenting voice, it isn't worth it. And I'm sure everything I just wrote will be angrily and insultingly denied

I'll just concentrate on this part right now. So where was the lack of a honest discussion? Where was all this hostility? Why are you taking your toys and going home? I guess the world will never know. I am sorry that comparing Stargate SG1 to shows like Hercules and Xena (yes with a X you got me) was considered a personal insult, do you work on the show do you pay for the show? How was my opinion to not like a show a considered hostility, are the people who are anti- Sci Fi being hostile to you or the channel? I am freely allowed to state my opinon and I am freely allowed to have a different opinon, you can argue my opinon but you can't say I am wrong because your opinon is better. I don't think you were looking for a honest discussion because that is what you got, nobody attacked you (unless you are Stargate SG1 and then I appologise for comparing you with two shows that were much more popular in their time and several shows that were not). I stated that those were my opinons and I am allowed to not like a TV show. Sorry you left it's hard to find somebody to take Sci Fi channels side in these discussions.

By the way work has started on a Motion Picture based on Xena warrior princess, I think that any comparison with that show should now be seen as a positive. I don't know how many fans Stargate has but am pretty sure that if it got canncelled there would be no National movement to try and save it, that was my whole point, Farscape generated a highly loyal and dedicated fanbase much like Babylon 5 did and much like Star Trek did and continues to do. Sci Fi channel tanked Farscape it is pretty obvious, it went from the networks no 1 show to being lucky to catch. yes serialization might of stopped new fans but it does with a lot of shows that stay sucessful, you know how you combat that, you show it alot more so people can see old episodes and catch up, like they are doing with Stargate SG1 and like they used to do with Farscape.

Why I am mad at Sci Fi is for statements like this one "If all of those incredible fans who wrote in and sent notes and flowers and [whatnot] had actually watched it every week, we would have been able to do the 22." So all the people who wrote in were liars they didn't actually watch the show and it is all their fault? Yea it's the fans fault, it's not Sci Fi's fault we would of loved to keep it but you fans just wouldn't watch it, you say you did and you want to save it but it's obvious by the numbers that you are liars. If that isn't a vieled insult I don't know what is, yes ratings were down the show got moved around and twisted in the wind, but it's strange that it went from being their number one show ever to being so bad it is not worth saving in 6 to 7 weeks, gee when most channels move a popular show to a new timeslot and the ratings take a mild dip they try to advertise to let people know or sometimes try to find a better slot to get the ratings back, Sci Fi pulled the plug before they even made midseason, but they kept it quiet.......................and we are all crazy and blinded by our love of the show? I think that is a little fishy myself. Yea the show is cancelled and they will not change their minds, they are revamping the channel to get away from space shows (gee that right there should of been a big clue something was fishy). my life will go on, it's just the way it goes. I was not even one of the fanatical fans, I din't give money or sign petitions, I sent one e-mail to Sci Fi expressing my distain that was answered by a form letter thanking me for my fan mail (which shows they didn't even read my e-mail). That was it, I don't see where I am blinded to what happened and I am sorry I don't like Stargate (if it makes any difference I can lie and say I do).

 

[jdavis]

First season Buffy had 12 episodes (13 if you count the pilot as two, which I don't). In seven of those, vampires were not the primary antagonists:
The Witch (baddie: Amy's mom, a witch)
Teacher's Pet (baddie: substitute teacher, a mantis monster)
The Pack (baddies: the pack of students possessed by the hyena spirits, as well as the animal caretaker who wanted to get them for himself)
I Robot... You Jane (baddie: Moloch the cyberdemon)
The Puppet Show (baddie: demon who needs body parts to stay alive)
Nightmares (baddie: none really, the cause of badness is a boy who's in a coma though one could make the case that the boy's baseball coach is the baddie)
Out of Mind, Out of Sight (baddie: the girl who had become invisible through being ignored)

In second season, ten of the episodes focused on non-vampires (Some Assembly Required, Inca Mummy Girl, Reptile Boy, Halloween, The Dark Age, Ted, Bad Eggs, Phases, Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered, Killed by Death, I Only Have Eyes For You and Go Fish), and one could make the case that two of the three double-episodes (What's My Line and Surprise/Innocence - the third being Becoming) have at least half the action focused on non-vampires (Order of Taraka for What's My Line and the Judge in Surprise/Innocence) - again, only about 50% vampness.

Granted, season 3 had *more* non-vampire episodes, but the show has been about other things than vampires from the beginning. The first episode even finishes up with Giles saying something about the veritable cornucopia of nasties attracted to the Hellmouth.

Well the main villian in the season storyline was vampires, but I'll just give in and accept that the show was actually "Buffy the "anything that needs Killing" slayer from the start. I loved the show but I just slowly drifted away after she graduated High School.