Scion Companion

[Samuel Leming]

It would be very interesting to see someone write up some ways to use another system for Scion.

For converting to Mutants & Masterminds the process would almost be easy. Since M&M is an effects based system you could use the Scion rules as a governor and just build the powers based on the descriptions. Some of the absolute effects may be a bit pricey though. It's been over a year since I looked at doing this, but I remember that beginning Scion characters can differ drastically in power level and point costs when converted over. Scion is balanced... differently.

 

[Samuel Leming]

For M&M its a touch more difficult- that system doesn't quite distinguish between points the way HERO does...

This is an understatement. Even the points themselves represent different things once you dig into it.

When I first started playing M&M the hardest thing for me to wrap my mind around was the differences between drawbacks and HERO disadvantages. In HERO it's a common practice to model a character by buying down one thing with a disadvantage and using the points to buy some other ability to compensate. A trade-off. In M&M drawbacks are valued by their frequency and intensity. If your character has the power of continuous flight your paraplegic drawback once worth 4 points gets downgraded to a complication worth nothing but the occasional hero point.

[Edit]Still, I'd still prefer M&M over HERO for this task. The system is simpler and you'd be able to get more people to play it!

 

[Samuel Leming]

My suggestion would be to convert the whole lot over to 4E.

errr.... Why?

 

[Nikosandros]

When I first started playing M&M the hardest thing for me to wrap my mind around was the differences between drawbacks and HERO disadvantages. In HERO it's a common practice to model a character by buying down one thing with a disadvantage and using the points to buy some other ability to compensate. A trade-off.

In HERO, if you compensate for a disadvantage, then you don't get points for it... it's pretty explicit in the rules. And physical and psychological limitations also have a frequency value that alters the points that you get.

 

[Samuel Leming]

In HERO, if you compensate for a disadvantage, then you don't get points for it... it's pretty explicit in the rules. And physical and psychological limitations also have a frequency value that alters the points that you get.

Really?

Since it's been more then a decade since I've played HERO/Champions and I don't have the rules in front of me(I do have the M&M & Scion rules here though) I'm willing to consider that I'm in error here. Please help me out in tracking down the cause of this though. I really do remember doing a lot of trade-offs. Almost every non-human Champions character I've ever seen. Have these rules changed at some point? Am I conflating some other part of the game with disadvantages? I hope I haven't fallen into the dreaded house rules tar pit.

 

[hong]

Really?

Since it's been more then a decade since I've played HERO/Champions and I don't have the rules in front of me(I do have the M&M & Scion rules here though) I'm willing to consider that I'm in error here. Please help me out in tracking down the cause of this though. I really do remember doing a lot of trade-offs. Almost every non-human Champions character I've ever seen. Have these rules changed at some point? Am I conflating some other part of the game with disadvantages? I hope I haven't fallen into the dreaded house rules tar pit.

It's a general sort of guideline in most of these "builder" games like HERO and GURPS. If a disad isn't actually disadvantageous, you get no points. It's a way of keeping the exploitability of the system in check.

Crothian, you may find a few more Scion players on RPGnet.

 

[Nikosandros]

It's a general sort of guideline in most of these "builder" games like HERO and GURPS. If a disad isn't actually disadvantageous, you get no points. It's a way of keeping the exploitability of the system in check.

Yes, it is spelled out as a general principle that overrides the specifics of each disadvantage.

Furthermore, whenever you take a disadvantage such as paraplegic, it is modeled as a physical limitation, a type of disadvantage whose point value is assessed as a function of the frequency with which the disadvantage manifests itself and how hindering it is to the character... a character that has another form of locomotion clearly isn't hindered at all.

My (limited) experience with HERO is from 4th edition onwards (IIRC released in '89 or whereabouts), so it is possible that things used to be different.

 

[coyote6]

I'm pretty sure that there used to be sample characters (NPCs, villains) in Champions (probably 2e or 3e) that would have PhysLim: Blind and then have some kind of radar power, or the like. AFAIK, the theory was always, "no points if it's not actually a problem"; it was, however, not always observed, either by the game's authors & publishers, or by the players (at least in my group ).

For Scion => M&M, I hadn't thought of any actual conversion, since the systems are different; my planning was all blue-sky preliminary stuff, and thus in more general terms (i.e., Hero start at PL7 or so; Demi-god being around PL10; God being PL12-13 & up).

 

[Crothian]

For M&M though you'd want to come up with two costs for most abilities since have one's parenet favor an ability allows it to cost less. You'd also need something for Legend and Fatebinding. I like the 9 attributes of Scion over the 6 of M&M though for the game and it's division of them so one person is great at the social stuff but has less points for all the mental ones. That would be a harder thing to do in M&M.

I guess it would depend on if one was going to just use M&M to run a Scion like game that just used the rules iof M&M and ignored most of the mechancis in Scion. Or is one wanted a conversion that directly translated the powers of Scion over to M&M.

 

[TheWyrd]

You could always try running it in Aberrant... oh wait.

For converting to M&M, I think I'd look at things in terms of Drawbacks rather than double costing the powers. That thunderbolt power you just bought because you're Zeus' son? Drawback: Zeus' Legacy -2 points. Ok. You might want to not actually call it a Drawback.. but the mechanics are the same, you're paying less for a power.