Land Outcast
Explorer
Another PrC disapperaed because of the crash, any data is welcome, reposting is cheerfully accepted
Searching for "Puma Burglar"
- Thread starter Land Outcast
- Start date
Nyaricus
First Post
got it! [sblock]runtime
10-23-05, 02:53 AM
Here is a rough draft of a new class I've been developing. It's sort of a wild, supernatural burglar. I'm not sure whether this class would be most appropriate as a base class or prestige class..? Also, does this class seem unbalanced, possibly too gifted?
chris
--
B]Puma Burgular[/B]
The Puma Burglars are a loose association of thieves. Most are brutish and street-smart. Though not as studied as some rogues, Puma Burglars are natural sneaks. At night, they crawl the city with animal-like instincts and almost supernatural stealth.
Hit Die: d6
Requirements
To qualify to become a Puma Burglar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Feats: Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Balance, Climb, or Tumble).
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Knowledge (Architecture and engineering or Local) 4 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks.
Class Skills:
The Puma Burglar's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Level Advancement Chart:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Slow fall 20 ft.
2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Trap sense +1
3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Low-light vision
4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Hide in plain sight, trackless step
5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Slow fall 40 ft.
6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Trap sense +2
7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Blindsight
8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Slow fall 60 ft.
9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Trap sense +3
10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Darkvision
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Puma Burglar.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A Puma Burglar gains no additional proficiency in any weapon or armor.
Slow Fall (Ex)
A Puma Burglar within arm's reach of a wall can use it to slow her descent. When first using this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The Puma Burglar's ability to slow his fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with his Puma Burglar level until at 9th level he can use a nearby wall to slow his descent and fall any distance without harm.
Trap Sense (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, a Puma Burglar gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 at 6th and 9th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Low-Light Vision (Ex)
At 3rd level, using his heightened sense, a Puma Burglar can see twice as far as a typical member of his race in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
At 4th level, a Puma Burglar can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Trackless Step (Ex)
At 4th level, a Puma Burglar leaves no trail in natural or urban surroundings and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.
Blindsight (Ex)
At 7th level, a Puma Burglar gains blindsight. He can ascertain creatures by nonvisual means within 60 feet.
Darkvision (Su)
At 10th level, a Puma Burglar can see in the dark as though he were permanently under the effect of a Darkvision spell.
--
DragonTurtle
10-23-05, 11:03 AM
Just a couple of observations based on the flavor of the class, who if I understand are more supernatural than studied rogues.
Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), probably not needed as a requirement, as it entails an awful lot of study.
May want to add Knowledge (Nature) to skill list.
I would switch trapfinding and evasion, evasion should almost never be a first level abiliity as it is too tempting to dip one level to get.
Slowfall is cool and makes sense for the build. I would bump the skills back up some, the class is not too powerful as written, especially without sneak attack.
Question on whether it is a coreclass or PrC is up to you and your campaign. I would say PrC but that is my opinion based on how specialized the role is. Core classes (usually not always) are meant to cover a number of archetypes. So the rogue core class can be a merchant, assassin, thief, pirate etc.. The Puma Burglar to me seems less likely to fill many roles other than the Puma Burglar.
runtime
10-23-05, 01:00 PM
Just a couple of observations based on the flavor of the class, who if I understand are more supernatural than studied rogues.
Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), probably not needed as a requirement, as it entails an awful lot of study.
May want to add Knowledge (Nature) to skill list.
I would switch trapfinding and evasion, evasion should almost never be a first level abiliity as it is too tempting to dip one level to get.
Slowfall is cool and makes sense for the build. I would bump the skills back up some, the class is not too powerful as written, especially without sneak attack.
Question on whether it is a coreclass or PrC is up to you and your campaign. I would say PrC but that is my opinion based on how specialized the role is. Core classes (usually not always) are meant to cover a number of archetypes. So the rogue core class can be a merchant, assassin, thief, pirate etc.. The Puma Burglar to me seems less likely to fill many roles other than the Puma Burglar.
Thanks, your suggestions are very helpful. I agree that PrC might be most appropriate. I was torn trying to make the class not too rogue-ish or require rogue levels as a prerequisite. I was trying to imagine a PrC that might interest even barbarians or rangers who wanted to get a little rogue-ish.
Nyaricus
10-28-05, 12:36 AM
This is definitivly a tasty little PrC you have here, but i have a few comments . . .
You probably want a Rogue/Ranger-type to take this PrC, if i am correct. It suits the build, to be sure. But i dunno, the focus seems a bit wrong (if i am getting it right in the first place). You have some awesome city-scape abilities, and then stuff like wild empathy and trackless step thrown in - which, with the abilities, doesnt really fit. For the class description (not to mention name) sure.
My suggestion would be to ficus this as a feral, streetwise character. A slinky little weasel that has a nice bag of tricks. Wild Empathy should affect domesticated animals only, and if they have Wild Empathy from another class, they get a +2 bonus to those checks. Trackless step should work only in urban areas.
I might be gettign this PrC all wrong, in which case, i apollogise. Just some of my own thoughts for focusing him a bit, but that may be incorrect in design. Do you want a city rogue that can run around and steal stuff, or do you want a outdoorsie character with some interesting abilities and methods of using them.
runtime
10-29-05, 04:07 PM
This is definitivly a tasty little PrC you have here, but i have a few comments . . .
You probably want a Rogue/Ranger-type to take this PrC, if i am correct. It suits the build, to be sure. But i dunno, the focus seems a bit wrong (if i am getting it right in the first place). You have some awesome city-scape abilities, and then stuff like wild empathy and trackless step thrown in - which, with the abilities, doesnt really fit. For the class description (not to mention name) sure.
My suggestion would be to ficus this as a feral, streetwise character. A slinky little weasel that has a nice bag of tricks. Wild Empathy should affect domesticated animals only, and if they have Wild Empathy from another class, they get a +2 bonus to those checks. Trackless step should work only in urban areas.
I might be gettign this PrC all wrong, in which case, i apollogise. Just some of my own thoughts for focusing him a bit, but that may be incorrect in design. Do you want a city rogue that can run around and steal stuff, or do you want a outdoorsie character with some interesting abilities and methods of using them.
Thanks for your feedback. You're right that the Puma Burglar is a bit bi-polar: is he wild or urban? You have some good suggestions about customizing the wild feats for urban use. "Domestic Empathy" special ability, anyone?
Nyaricus
10-29-05, 11:57 PM
Thanks for your feedback. You're right that the Puma Burglar is a bit bi-polar: is he wild or urban? You have some good suggestions about customizing the wild feats for urban use. "Domestic Empathy" special ability, anyone?
Heh heh
But really, what is he?? I like this PrC, but i think he needs some focus. Any more info forthcoming??
runtime
10-30-05, 11:46 PM
I just updated the class description. Your feedback has inspired me to pick up my Puma Burglar class again.
Some unresolved design issues:
- Do the prerequisite Feats and Skills seem appropriate and balanced?
- Where in the level advancement would "Hide in plain sight" be appropriate?[/sblock]
10-23-05, 02:53 AM
Here is a rough draft of a new class I've been developing. It's sort of a wild, supernatural burglar. I'm not sure whether this class would be most appropriate as a base class or prestige class..? Also, does this class seem unbalanced, possibly too gifted?
chris
--
B]Puma Burgular[/B]
The Puma Burglars are a loose association of thieves. Most are brutish and street-smart. Though not as studied as some rogues, Puma Burglars are natural sneaks. At night, they crawl the city with animal-like instincts and almost supernatural stealth.
Hit Die: d6
Requirements
To qualify to become a Puma Burglar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment: Any nonlawful.
Feats: Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Balance, Climb, or Tumble).
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Knowledge (Architecture and engineering or Local) 4 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks.
Class Skills:
The Puma Burglar's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier.
Level Advancement Chart:
Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special
1 +0 +0 +2 +0 Slow fall 20 ft.
2 +1 +0 +3 +0 Trap sense +1
3 +2 +1 +3 +1 Low-light vision
4 +3 +1 +4 +1 Hide in plain sight, trackless step
5 +3 +1 +4 +1 Slow fall 40 ft.
6 +4 +2 +5 +2 Trap sense +2
7 +5 +2 +5 +2 Blindsight
8 +6/+1 +2 +6 +2 Slow fall 60 ft.
9 +6/+1 +3 +6 +3 Trap sense +3
10 +7/+2 +3 +7 +3 Darkvision
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Puma Burglar.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
A Puma Burglar gains no additional proficiency in any weapon or armor.
Slow Fall (Ex)
A Puma Burglar within arm's reach of a wall can use it to slow her descent. When first using this ability, he takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The Puma Burglar's ability to slow his fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with his Puma Burglar level until at 9th level he can use a nearby wall to slow his descent and fall any distance without harm.
Trap Sense (Ex)
Starting at 2nd level, a Puma Burglar gains a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 at 6th and 9th level. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack. Trap sense bonuses gained from multiple classes stack.
Low-Light Vision (Ex)
At 3rd level, using his heightened sense, a Puma Burglar can see twice as far as a typical member of his race in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
Hide in Plain Sight (Su)
At 4th level, a Puma Burglar can use the Hide skill even while being observed. As long as she is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind. She cannot, however, hide in her own shadow.
Trackless Step (Ex)
At 4th level, a Puma Burglar leaves no trail in natural or urban surroundings and cannot be tracked. He may choose to leave a trail if so desired.
Blindsight (Ex)
At 7th level, a Puma Burglar gains blindsight. He can ascertain creatures by nonvisual means within 60 feet.
Darkvision (Su)
At 10th level, a Puma Burglar can see in the dark as though he were permanently under the effect of a Darkvision spell.
--
DragonTurtle
10-23-05, 11:03 AM
Just a couple of observations based on the flavor of the class, who if I understand are more supernatural than studied rogues.
Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), probably not needed as a requirement, as it entails an awful lot of study.
May want to add Knowledge (Nature) to skill list.
I would switch trapfinding and evasion, evasion should almost never be a first level abiliity as it is too tempting to dip one level to get.
Slowfall is cool and makes sense for the build. I would bump the skills back up some, the class is not too powerful as written, especially without sneak attack.
Question on whether it is a coreclass or PrC is up to you and your campaign. I would say PrC but that is my opinion based on how specialized the role is. Core classes (usually not always) are meant to cover a number of archetypes. So the rogue core class can be a merchant, assassin, thief, pirate etc.. The Puma Burglar to me seems less likely to fill many roles other than the Puma Burglar.
runtime
10-23-05, 01:00 PM
Just a couple of observations based on the flavor of the class, who if I understand are more supernatural than studied rogues.
Knowledge (Architecture and engineering), probably not needed as a requirement, as it entails an awful lot of study.
May want to add Knowledge (Nature) to skill list.
I would switch trapfinding and evasion, evasion should almost never be a first level abiliity as it is too tempting to dip one level to get.
Slowfall is cool and makes sense for the build. I would bump the skills back up some, the class is not too powerful as written, especially without sneak attack.
Question on whether it is a coreclass or PrC is up to you and your campaign. I would say PrC but that is my opinion based on how specialized the role is. Core classes (usually not always) are meant to cover a number of archetypes. So the rogue core class can be a merchant, assassin, thief, pirate etc.. The Puma Burglar to me seems less likely to fill many roles other than the Puma Burglar.
Thanks, your suggestions are very helpful. I agree that PrC might be most appropriate. I was torn trying to make the class not too rogue-ish or require rogue levels as a prerequisite. I was trying to imagine a PrC that might interest even barbarians or rangers who wanted to get a little rogue-ish.
Nyaricus
10-28-05, 12:36 AM
This is definitivly a tasty little PrC you have here, but i have a few comments . . .
You probably want a Rogue/Ranger-type to take this PrC, if i am correct. It suits the build, to be sure. But i dunno, the focus seems a bit wrong (if i am getting it right in the first place). You have some awesome city-scape abilities, and then stuff like wild empathy and trackless step thrown in - which, with the abilities, doesnt really fit. For the class description (not to mention name) sure.
My suggestion would be to ficus this as a feral, streetwise character. A slinky little weasel that has a nice bag of tricks. Wild Empathy should affect domesticated animals only, and if they have Wild Empathy from another class, they get a +2 bonus to those checks. Trackless step should work only in urban areas.
I might be gettign this PrC all wrong, in which case, i apollogise. Just some of my own thoughts for focusing him a bit, but that may be incorrect in design. Do you want a city rogue that can run around and steal stuff, or do you want a outdoorsie character with some interesting abilities and methods of using them.
runtime
10-29-05, 04:07 PM
This is definitivly a tasty little PrC you have here, but i have a few comments . . .
You probably want a Rogue/Ranger-type to take this PrC, if i am correct. It suits the build, to be sure. But i dunno, the focus seems a bit wrong (if i am getting it right in the first place). You have some awesome city-scape abilities, and then stuff like wild empathy and trackless step thrown in - which, with the abilities, doesnt really fit. For the class description (not to mention name) sure.
My suggestion would be to ficus this as a feral, streetwise character. A slinky little weasel that has a nice bag of tricks. Wild Empathy should affect domesticated animals only, and if they have Wild Empathy from another class, they get a +2 bonus to those checks. Trackless step should work only in urban areas.
I might be gettign this PrC all wrong, in which case, i apollogise. Just some of my own thoughts for focusing him a bit, but that may be incorrect in design. Do you want a city rogue that can run around and steal stuff, or do you want a outdoorsie character with some interesting abilities and methods of using them.
Thanks for your feedback. You're right that the Puma Burglar is a bit bi-polar: is he wild or urban? You have some good suggestions about customizing the wild feats for urban use. "Domestic Empathy" special ability, anyone?
Nyaricus
10-29-05, 11:57 PM
Thanks for your feedback. You're right that the Puma Burglar is a bit bi-polar: is he wild or urban? You have some good suggestions about customizing the wild feats for urban use. "Domestic Empathy" special ability, anyone?
Heh heh
But really, what is he?? I like this PrC, but i think he needs some focus. Any more info forthcoming??runtime
10-30-05, 11:46 PM
I just updated the class description. Your feedback has inspired me to pick up my Puma Burglar class again.
Some unresolved design issues:
- Do the prerequisite Feats and Skills seem appropriate and balanced?
- Where in the level advancement would "Hide in plain sight" be appropriate?[/sblock]
Land Outcast
Explorer
Whooo
thanks
One down, some more to go
thanks
One down, some more to go
Land Outcast
Explorer
Searching for "Shaper - Spellpoint sorcerer"
Searching for "Alternative Fighter" or "Fighter Fix" (probably posted by a user of name "Ambrosia", but I can't ascertain it)
Searching for Blademaster and Mystic... (Mystic something... cant remember )
And also searching for some great Wizard Specialist core classes.
got any of them?
Searching for "Alternative Fighter" or "Fighter Fix" (probably posted by a user of name "Ambrosia", but I can't ascertain it)
Searching for Blademaster and Mystic... (Mystic something... cant remember
)And also searching for some great Wizard Specialist core classes.
got any of them?
Nyaricus
First Post
Shaper: hope this is what you are looking for [sblock] Classes - Arcane Shaper - Spell Point Sorcerer (Almost done! Comments please!)
The Arcane Shaper
“Duvo, can you tell me what creature is held here in this cage?”
Duvo was unsure. During his six months at the school, Duvo had never enjoyed his studies as did his classmates. His natural talent with magic had been enough to fool his teachers.
“A goblin” Duvo asked more than stated.
“Incorrect! You have not been doing your studies Duvo!” scolded the teacher. “Had you studied, you would see this is a Kobold. Did you at least prepare the spells you were instructed to have ready for this lesson?” asked the frustrated instructor.
“Yes, sir” he lied.
“Than you should be capable of putting this kobold to sleep.”
“Of course I can!”
“Then do it.”
Duvo held out his hand and let himself sink into the trance that allowed him to see the Winds all around him, as he always did when commanded to perform such minor tricks. He imagined the sleeping kobold. He imagined the Winds bending to his will. He saw the Winds forming a ball, a ball filled with the desire for deep slumber, and finally he saw that ball flying towards the kobold.
When Duvo opened his eyes, the kobold was dead…
Duvo’s ball of magical energy wasn’t imaginary, nor was it filled with a desire for deep slumber. It was a bolt of pure arcane energy filled with naught but death and destruction.
The teacher approached the cage to see the cadaverous form of the kobold covered in blood. A small hole blasted clean through its torso.
“Come here, Duvo” he commanded softly.
Duvo approached cautiously, fearing punishment.
“You have a great gift, my boy.”
Duvo swelled with pride at his mentor’s approval, but his mood was doused quickly upon seeing the teacher's harsh expression.
“None must know of your gift, however. I dread they would misunderstand, and people fear that which they do not understand. You mustn’t tell a soul.”
He never did.
The Arcane Shaper
HTML Code:
Fort Ref Will Mana Level BAB Save Save Save Points Special 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 3 Arcane Bolts (D4), Arcane Shield 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 5 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 8 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 14 Arcane Bolts (D6), Arcane Enhancement 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 19 Bonus Feat 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 29 Arcane Flight 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 37 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 51 Arcane Bolts (Blast) 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 63 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 81 Bonus Feat 11 +5 +3 +3 +7 97 12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 115 Arcane Defense 13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 131 14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 149 15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 165 Bonus Feat 16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 183 17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 199 Arcane Absorption 18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 217 19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 233 20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 249 Bonus Feat, Arcane Storm
Spells Known
HTML Code:
Shaper Spells Known Lvl 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 4 2 - - - - - - - - 2 5 2 - - - - - - - - 3 5 3 - - - - - - - - 4 6 3 1 - - - - - - - 5 6 4 2 - - - - - - - 6 7 4 2 1 - - - - - - 7 7 5 3 2 - - - - - - 8 8 5 3 2 1 - - - - - 9 8 5 4 3 2 - - - - - 10 9 5 4 3 2 1 - - - - 11 9 5 5 4 3 2 - - - - 12 9 5 5 4 3 2 1 - - - 13 9 5 5 5 4 3 2 - - - 14 9 5 5 5 4 3 2 1 - - 15 9 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 - - 16 9 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 1 - 17 9 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 - 18 9 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 1 19 9 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 20 9 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 3
Bonus Mana
HTML Code:
Bonus Mana (by Maximum Spell Level) Score 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 12-13 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 14-15 1 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 16-17 1 4 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 18-19 1 4 9 16 16 16 16 16 16 20-21 2 5 10 17 26 26 26 26 26 22-23 2 8 13 20 29 40 40 40 40 24-25 2 8 18 25 34 45 58 58 58 26-27 2 8 18 32 41 52 65 80 80 ...You can figure out the patern from here. Unearthed Arcana pg. 154
Spell Cost
HTML Code:
Spell Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Mana Cost 0/1 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17
Shaper Spell List
0-Level Shaper Spells
Resistance
Ray of Frost
Daze
Dancing Lights
Flare
Light
Ghost Sound
Disrupt Undead
Mage Hand
Mending
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation
Peppershot
Flame On
Wash
1st-Level Shaper Spells
Alarm
Endure Elements
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Shield
Grease
Obscuring Mist
Detect Undead
True Strike
Hypnotism
Sleep
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Color Spray
Nystul’s Magic Aura
Nystul’s Undetectable Aura
Silent Image
Ventriloquism
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Ray of Enfeeblement
Animate Rope
Burning Hands
Enlarge
Expeditious Retreat
Feather Fall
Jump
Magic Weapon
Message
Reduce
Shocking Grasp
Spider Climb
Puff and Gone
Floater
Precise Vision
Swim
Ray of Clumsiness
Paste
Acidic Curse
2nd-Level Shaper Spells
Protection from Arrows
Resist Elements
Fog Cloud
Glitterdust
Melf’s Acid Arrow
Web
Detect Thoughts
Locate Object
See Invisibility
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Continual Flame
Darkness
Daylight
Flaming Sphere
Shatter
Blur
Hypnotic Pattern
Invisibility
Minor Image
Mirror Image
Ghoul Touch
Scare
Spectral Hand
Blindness/Deafness
Darkvision
Knock
Pyrotechnics
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Flaming Shield
Saltburst
Thief Ward
Killer Instinct
Mantle of Unassailable Flame
Spellslip
Icebolt
3rd-Level Shaper Spells
Dispel Magic
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Protection from Elements
Flame Arrow
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Hold Person
Suggestion
Fireball
Gust of Wind
Lightning Bolt
Wind Wall
Displacement
Major Image
Gentle Repose
Halt Undead
Vampiric Touch
Blink
Gaseous Form
Greater Magic Weapon
Haste
Keen Edge
Slow
Water Breathing
Telekinesis
Bigby’s Interposing Hand
4th-Level Shaper Spells
Dimensional Anchor
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Evard’s Black Tentacles
Minor Creation
Solid Fog
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Lesser Geas
Fire Shield
Ice Storm
Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere
Shout
Wall of Fire
Wall of Ice
Hallucinatory Terrain
Illusory Wall
Improved Invisibility
Phantasmal Killer
Rainbow Pattern
Shadow Conjuration
Enervation
Fear
Dimension Door
Entropic Shield
Bigby’s Forceful Hand
5th-Level Shaper Spells
Dismissal
Cloudkill
Rary’s Telepathic Bond
Mind Fog
Cone of Cold
Sending
Wall of Force
Dream
Mirage Arcana
Shadow Evocation
Animate Dead
Fabricate
Stone Shape
Bigby’s Grasping Hand
Teleport
Permanency
Air Walk
Waterwalk
6th-Level Shaper Spells
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Greater Dispelling
Repulsion
Acid Fog
Planar Binding
Legend Lore
True Seeing
Bigby’s Clenched Fist
Chain Lightning
Contingency
Otiluke’s Freezing Sphere
Greater Shadow Evocation
Mislead
Shades
Circle of Death
Control Water
Control Weather
Disintegrate
Eyebite
Move Earth
Tenser’s Transformation
Negative Energy Protections
Magic Vestment
Lesser Restoration
7th-Level Shaper Spells
Banishment
Spell Turning
Drawmij’s Instant Summons
Phase Door
Vision
Bigby’s Crushing Hand
Delayed Blast Fireball
Forcecage
Mordenkainen’s Sword
Prismatic Spray
Shadow Walk
Simulacrum
Control Undead
Ethereal Jaunt
Reverse Gravity
Teleport without Error
Freedom of Movement
Call Lightning
8th-Level Shaper Spells
Mind Blank
Prismatic Wall
Incendiary Cloud
Discern Location
Demand
Otto’s Irresistible Dance
Otiluke’s Telekinetic Sphere
Sunburst
Horrid Wilting
Etherealness
Iron Body
Blade Barrier
Wind Walk
Restoration
9th-Level Shaper Spells
Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Prismatic Sphere
Gate
Foresight
Meteor Swarm
Weird
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Wail of the Banshee
Temporal Stasis
Regenerate
Arcane Feats
Improved Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements:Improved Shaping, Shaper level 5+, Concentration (7 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 5 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but may never be used during consecutive rounds.
Example: Duvo uses Arcane Shield on round 1 to increase his AC by 8 for 11 Mana. On round 2 he Maintains his bonus to AC for 4 Mana. On round 3 he may make a Concentration check (DC 16) to maintain Arcane Shield for free. On round 4 he must pay 4 Mana again to maintain his AC bonus. On round 5 he may make a Concentration check to ignore the maintaining cost again.
Greater Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements: Greater Shaping, Improved Maintenance, Shaper level 12+, Concentration (15 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 13 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but the character must still pay the normal maintenance cost at least once each minute its active.
Improved Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities, Wis 13+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were two levels higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability to use Arcane abilities.
Greater Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Shaping, Shaper level 9+, Wis 15+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were four levels higher that you are in the class that grants you the ability to use arcane abilities.
Summon Familiar [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain the ability to summon a familiar. This works just like the summon familiar ability of the sorcerer. For more information on the familiar see page 52 of the PHB.
Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Bolts ability
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts in melee to deliver touch attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. This may not be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast feature.
Improved Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +3
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts to ‘charge’ any weapon so that anything struck by the weapon is immediately struck by the Arcane Bolts. Charging the weapon requires a move-equivalent action. The amount of Mana that can be used to charge a weapon cannot be greater than your base attack bonus. This ability cannot be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast ability.
Greater Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: Charging your weapon with Arcane Bolts is now a swift action.
Arcane Attack [Arcane]
Requirements: Str 13+, Power Attack, base attack bonus +3
Benefit: If you pay 5 Mana per strike, you can resolve you melee attack with a weapon as a touch attack for the purpose of determining armor class. You must decide whether or not to pay the cost prior to making the attack. Your weapon remains charged for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod + 1 or until you attack with it. If the attack misses than the power is wasted.
Arcane Aptitude [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain +1 Mana
Special: A character may gain this feat multiple times each time gaining a number of Mana equal to the previous Arcane Aptitude +1.
Improved Arcane Flight [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Flight special ability
Benefit: Your maneuverability while using the Arcane Flight ability is increased to perfect and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Flight using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Shield [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Shield special ability
Benefit: Your arcane shield is charged with arcane energy. Anyone striking you in melee suffers 1d6 points of damage and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Shield using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Enhancement [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Enhancement special ability
Benefit: Any ability enhanced using the Arcane Enhancement gains an additional +2 magical bonus while the ability is active and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Enhancement using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Defense [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Defense special ability
Benefit: Your spell resistance gained through the use of this ability gains a +3 bonus and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Defense using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Energy Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Energy Substitution, ability to use Arcane Bolts
Benefit: Choose an energy type: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You may now choose to have your Arcane Bolts deal that type of damage instead of arcane damage.
Special: You may gain this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a different type of energy.
Adventures: Most Shapers adventure for two reasons: the first being the desire to improve their control over their uncanny abilites, and the second being that they are rarely totally accepted in organized society. Their friends and family may accept them for who they are, but others have trouble understanding their free-spirited ways. People fear what they don't understand and becuase of this fear Shapers are often loners. Good Shapers may try to prove that people have nothing to fear, while evil Shapers may prove that fear is well placed in trying to dominate people with their powers.
Characteristics: Shapers use magic in a much different way than Wizards. Their magic is intuuitive, natural, and inborn. Though it's true Shapers will not know as many spells as a Wizard, they tend to have the ability to cast more spells or use their innate Shaping abilites more often than Wizards do. Shapers learn their powers through practice, not study, so they don't have as much knowledge pertaining to the arcane arts like Wizards do. However, they are capable of practicing with weapons more often and because of that they are proficient with some simple weapons.
Alignment: Shapers are free spirited people. They are shunted from society and their skills derive from intuition rather than study. Shapers tend to favor chaos over law.
Religion: Boccob and Wee Jas are gods related to magic and so Shapers sometimes worship them if they choose to worship any god at all.
Backround: Most Shapers disover their powers by accident around the age of puberty. A young Shaper's abilities are untamed and often dangerous. If the Shaper is lucky, an older, more experienced Shaper will find him and help him control his power. Most Shapers, however are not so fortunate and must learn to control their abilities by themselves. Any group formed by Shapers will be loose at best, they gain little from sharing their knowledge with one another.
Races: Magic may chose any person, of any race to be a Shaper. It is most common in humans and elves and least common in dwarves.
Other Classes: Shapers get along with other arcane spellcasters, though wizards often misunderstand them. Other free-spirited people such as bards, rogues, rangers and druids get along with Shapers very well usually. The more diciplined classes such as paladin and monk are usually hesitant to work with Shapers.
Role: The Shapers role in a society or in a party is usually as a warrior. Though they are not well suited to front-line combat, they are capable to dealing a hefty amount of damage with their arcane abilites. Their role is also defined by what spells they know. With his high charisma, the Shaper may chose to use many spells that will aid him as a diplomat for example.
Game Rule Information
Abilities: Charisma determines a Shapers ability to cast spells, how powerful his spells are, and how much bonus Mana he obtains each level. Also a high Dexterity and Constitution will help the Shaper stay alive.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Class Skills
The Shaper's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are:
Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Knowlegde Arcana (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shapers are proficient with all simple weapon. Shapers are not proficient with any armor or shield.
Spells: Shapers have learned to shape the Winds to recreate the effects of spells they have seen other spellcasters use. As such they can cast arcane and even a few divine spells. They are limited by how many spells they know. To cast a spell the Shaper must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The DC for a saving throw against a Shaper's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Shapers Charisma modifier. Every level the shaper learns one or more new spells as shown in Table: Shaper Spells Known. The shaper may only learn spells from the Shaper Spell List. Also, the shaper is not limited to a certain number of spells per day; instead they cast spells by using Mana. Spells that have a level dependent variable (damage dice, duration, etc.), Always count as being cast at the minimum caster level required to cast the spell. The Shaper may increase the spells effective caster level by paying 1 Mana per caster level increase. This may never increase the caster level above the Shapers class level or the maximum allowed for the spell. Mana can be fully restored with a full nights rest. Spell costs are noted above.
Bonus Feat: The shaper gains a bonus feat at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. This feat may be a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or an arcane feat.
Shaping: Shapers have innate arcane abilities that are unique to their class. These abilities are powerful and useful in many ways, but also have their limitations. There are two types of Shaping actions: Shaping and Maintaining. Shaping is when a Shaper uses any of his class abilities that require Mana. Shaping can never be used in the same turn a Shaper wishes to cast a spell, however Maintaining can. Maintaining is when a Shaper pays an amount of Mana to keep a Shaping ability used during previous rounds in play. This means a Shaper can keep an Arcane effect in play as long as they have the Mana to Maintain it. Always round UP when determining the cost for maintaining. Maintaining is always a free action. Arcane Bolts and Arcane Storm cannot be maintained as they are instantaneous spell-like abilities. The amount of Mana a Shaper may use on Maintaining and to use Shaping abilities each round is limited to a number equal to his class level. The amount of Mana spent to cast spells has no limit, but you still may not Shape and Cast a spell in the same round, and you must still meet all the normal prerequisites for casting the spell(s). Example: A 7th level Shaper may maintain his +5 AC from before by spending 3 Mana, and would then have 4 Mana left to use on any other Shaping ability OR he may maintain his armor class and cast a spell. Arcane abilities are spell-like abilities.
Arcane Bolts: Beginning at Level 1 the Shaper has the innate ability to fling bolts of pure magical energy at a target as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Such an attack requires a ranged touch attack and has a range of 100 ft. +10 ft/lvl. If successful the target suffers 1D4/1 Mana spent. No saves are allowed, but spell resistance does apply. At level 4 this ability is upgraded in strength and now deals 1D6/1 Mana. And finally at level 8 this ability is upgraded again and may include a blast radius. For every 1 Mana spent in addition to the Mana spent determining the amount of damage the attack will do, it has 15 ft. added to its blast radius to a maximum of 75 ft. An attack roll of any kind is no longer needed, you simply taget a point in space at which the blast will originate from. All creatures in the blast radius now get a Reflex save for half damage. For example: Duvo uses 6 Mana to shape arcane bolts, plus an additional 2 Mana to include a blast. The attack will do 6D6 damage to all targets within 30 ft. of the blasts origin.
Arcane Shield: A Shaper may spend Mana to create a magical force field that covers and surrounds them. This ability can be used as an Immediate action and will increase the users AC by 1/1 Mana spent up to +5 AC. Increasing the protection beyond this requires more effort and further bonus' to AC will be at 1/2 Mana spent up to a maximum of +10 to AC. Protection above this is much more difficult to generate and the cost increases to 1/3 Mana spent. This is a magical bonus. Maintain at ½ AC Bonus.
Arcane Enhancement: Shapers are adept at defending themselves and that often means simply being stronger, faster, or tougher. Beginning at level 4 the shaper may increase their Str, Dex, and/or Con by 1/2 Mana spent as a Swift action. This is a magical bonus. Maintain at ½ cost.
Arcane Flight: Shapers a free roaming people that don’t like to be tied down by responsibilities, family, jobs, or even gravity! Beginning at level 6 they at last learn to defy gravity and fly. They fly with good maneuverability at double their speed for a cost of 4 Mana. Taking off is a free action. For every 4 Mana they spend beyond the first they may multiply their flying speed by one more. Example: A human shaper has a land speed of 30. He may fly for 4 Mana at a speed of 60 ft. or for 8 Mana he may fly at 90 ft. and for 12 Mana he can fly at 120 ft. and so on. Maintain at ¼ original cost.
Arcane Defense: As their understanding of the Winds of Magic continue to grow so do their abilities to control them. Starting at level 12 the Shaper can try to stop offensive spells directed at him as an Immediate action. He gains Spell Resistance of 10+1/2 Mana spent. Maintain at ½ original cost.
Arcane Absorption: Close to mastering his control of the Winds, a Shaper of this level has learned to absorb these universal energies into his own body and contain them therein. For a number of rounds per day equal to the Shapers level he may ready an action to absorb any spell that specifically targets him. Like counterspelling, when the enemy spellcaster casts his spell the Shaper must make a Spellcraft check to identify the spell. If this check is successful, the spell is absorbed. If the check is failed then the spell affects the Shaper as normal. When a Shaper absorbs a spell he gains an amount of Reserve Mana in his Reserve pool equal to the level of the spell absorbed. A Shapers reserve pool may contain an amount of Mana equal to double his Constitution score (CONx2).
Reserve Mana can be used in the following ways:
- It can be used as normal Mana.
- It may be spent on any Arcane ability above the normal limit based on class level.
- It can be spent to heal the Shaper at a rate of 2HP/1 Reserve Mana.
The amount of Reserve Mana stored in the reserve pool has numerous effects on the Shaper as follows:
- Once the amount of Reserve Mana has exceeded the Shaper’s CON score, he must make a Fort save each hour (DC 17) or lose all the Mana in an explosion. 1d6/1 Mana lost; 50 ft. blast centered on Shaper; Reflex (DC = amount of Mana lost) for half damage. The Shaper cannot save. If the Reserve pool is full (CONx2) this save must be made every minute. If the Shaper absorbs more Mana than his reserve pool can hold, he must make an immediate save (DC 17 + amount of Mana absorbed over max) or suffer the above affects; if the check succeeds the Shapers reserve pool is at max, not higher.
- The Shaper visibly shines and as such takes penalties on hide checks and bonus’ on Intimidate checks as follows:
----- Up to Con: Eyes glow; -10 Hide, +4 Intimidate, -4 Concentration
----- Con and over: Eyes glow brightly, body sheds light as a torch; -20 Hide, +8 Intimidate, -8 Concentration
----- Max (CONx2): Eyes glow brightly, body shines as Daylight spell; Hide impossible, +12 Intimidate, -12 Concentration
Arcane Storm: When a shaper reaches this level of control over the Winds, he can use them to such horrifyingly destructive ends such as the Arcane Storm. To use this ability the shaper must spend one round gathering all of the Winds around him into himself. On the following round he releases the blast. It flies towards a point he designates and explodes with tremendous force. This ability costs a minimum of 20 Mana and causes 5D6 +1d6/Mana points of damage over a 100 ft. radius blast! More damage may be added using Reserve Mana at +1d6/1 Reserve Mana spent. Reflex save for half damage. Afterwards, the shaper is fatigued until he can rest. Also, the shaper used all the Winds near him in the storm so there is a 50 ft. radius anti-magic field around the point where he shaped the storm in effect for 1D10 + 5 rounds.
So thats it. It's original at least.
I hope everyone can learn from what I've posted here and even improve on the idea!
Good luck and happy gaming to all!
__________________
My Current Project: The Arcane Shaper (Check it out!)
This Actually Happened in a Game
Cleric: I'll sneak up to the door.
DM: OK, you sneak towar.... wait, what are you wearing?
Cleric: Full plate...?
DM: Get out... no really, leave.
Cleric: Aww, c'mon. They might not hear me.
DM: Really? Well they just stabbed you... so I think they heard you.
Cleric: What!?
DM: 12 damage.
Cleric: Wait! WHAT!?
DM: OOO! This one scored a crit!..... And another 32 damage.
Cleric: GAH!!! I'm dead! Someone heal me!
Party: Thats your job, chief. Nobody cares about a cleric of Bane...
Cleric: But...
Party: Look, you've been corpsified, deal. Heres a fresh sheet.
Cleric: But I can't die, I had The Hand of Bane!
DM: Yeah, guess why you're dead...
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 04-10-06 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Major change to the class
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-17-06, 08:07 PM #2
Brother Richard
Registered User
Brother Richard's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Last Seen: Today (03:54 AM)
Posts: 56
My Bookshelf
my Thoughts
I really like the shaper and it should replacethe sorceror, but the arcane bolt is over powered. At level 20, I can spend all my mana to do multi hundred d6 damage. Their should be cap on how much mana used equal to level.
Brother Richard is offline Reply With Quote
Brother Richard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Brother Richard
Find More Posts by Brother Richard
Add Brother Richard to Your Buddy List
Add Brother Richard to your ignore list
Old 03-17-06, 08:22 PM #3
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Richard
I really like the shaper and it should replacethe sorceror, but the arcane bolt is over powered. At level 20, I can spend all my mana to do multi hundred d6 damage. Their should be cap on how much mana used equal to level.
Thank! I'm glad you like it, and as for the cap... there is... it's in bold text under the "Shaping" paragraph.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-18-06, 10:10 AM #4
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
I had this problem on the other boards...
I truely appreciate anyone that posts in this forum, I really do. All the advice I've gotten through the Internet has really helped this class along. But please people, read the main post very carefully before you comment.
The paragraph about "Shaping" is missed more often than it should be and it leads to alot of pointless posts.
All in all though, you're all incredibly helpful and I want to thank you very much!
Keep it up, I know you've all got plenty to say!
Good luck and happy gaming!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-18-06, 05:29 PM #5
DreamChaser
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Last Seen: 04-24-06 (08:26 PM)
Posts: 792
Send a message via ICQ to DreamChaser Send a message via Yahoo to DreamChaser
The Arcane Shield is too expensive, IMHO. Arcane bolt might be okay in cost but why would a shaper ever choose to use the Arcane Shield? At first level, that +1 is 1/3rd of his resources; by the time he can actually afford to get a +4, they are spending more than 1/4 of their daily resources for one round of protection. Sure it can be used as an immediate action but it just seems inefficient.
Just a thought...
DC
__________________
Please allow me to point out that no one (other than your DM perhaps) is forcing you to play it the way it is written in the books. Rule 0 exists for a reason. Healthy dialogue on a subject is one thing; frenzy about a rule you dislike is quite another.
Nerf, nerf, nerfity, nerf--the meaningless complaint of the uninspired!
DreamChaser is offline Reply With Quote
DreamChaser
View Public Profile
Send a private message to DreamChaser
Send email to DreamChaser
Visit DreamChaser's homepage!
Find More Posts by DreamChaser
Add DreamChaser to Your Buddy List
Add DreamChaser to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 02:25 PM #6
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamChaser
The Arcane Shield is too expensive, IMHO. Arcane bolt might be okay in cost but why would a shaper ever choose to use the Arcane Shield? At first level, that +1 is 1/3rd of his resources; by the time he can actually afford to get a +4, they are spending more than 1/4 of their daily resources for one round of protection. Sure it can be used as an immediate action but it just seems inefficient.
Just a thought...
DC
You bring up a good point, and it can easily be solved with the same answer I gave to a different question on a different board!
The Shaper DOES gain extra Mana at each level based on his CHA stat, just like a scion gains extra PP. I simply havn't added the chart for Extra Mana yet, but I will be adding it shortly. If you must see it, it is under the Spell Point variant system in Unearthed Arcana.
Keep reminding me of my mistakes people!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 06:20 PM #7
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I also think arcane shield isn't powerful enough. A shaper can spend 1 mana to cast shield which lasts for more than one round and provides a better AC bonus. Arcane protection should cost a little more for its protection but not the equivalent of a 2nd-3rd level spell. Also, to max the ability out it costs 24 mana. No shaper can do this ever so why bother placing the cap(except epic, but the progression is fine without a cap of its own)
__________________
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
[sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock]Scissors
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 07:31 PM #8
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_gathering2001
I also think arcane shield isn't powerful enough. A shaper can spend 1 mana to cast shield which lasts for more than one round and provides a better AC bonus. Arcane protection should cost a little more for its protection but not the equivalent of a 2nd-3rd level spell. Also, to max the ability out it costs 24 mana. No shaper can do this ever so why bother placing the cap(except epic, but the progression is fine without a cap of its own)
You must remember that shield may not last longer. Arcane Shield can be maintained indeffinitely. And with the highest maintaining cost being 5 Mana/round for +10 AC, it's not that bad. The ability used to simply be +1AC/1 Mana, this was too powerful in the higher levels. The new system gives you the same ability in the first few levels and then slows down the progression to keep it from becoming rediculous.
Maintaining can cost as much as mid level spells at higher levels, I did this intentionally because my idea behind the class was to be very powerful, but short lived. At level 20 a Shaper will have a very large amount of Mana. He can, if not careful, blow through all that mana in 6 or 7 rounds! If he were to set himself up with enough abilities and then try to maintain them, meanwhile casting high level spells, he could be spending 30 or more mana per round!
I changed Arcane Shield to the way it is now because I wanted it to be more easily maintained at higher levels. At all levels it will stack with shield, so even at low levels you'll be able give yourself a decent boost to AC. While at higher levels, Arcane Shield will be far mroe useful and yet easier to maintain. This ability is weak, but useful at low levels, and truely shines at higher levels. But I do believe you have a point, so I'm going to change it slightly to make the max just a bit higher.
Thanks for the input, keep it coming!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 08:52 PM #9
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
So I've made some major updates including the Bonus Mana chart and the changes I promised to the arcane bolts and shield abilities.
Also, anyone who would like to be able to print this class out for use in your game, just drop me a PM with you're email in it and I'll send you the .word document as soon as I add all the updates to it!
Thanks for all the help! This class is about 95% done I'd say!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-20-06, 10:10 PM #10
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I still see a problem that I as a player would almost never use shield and not use arcane bolt between levels 5 and 11 (possibly higher) at level 5, third level spells become available that do the same amount of damage as the bolt but have areas, at level six they are more cost efficient. At level eleven the cap is in place for 3rd level spells but not other levels.
As compared to benifit the shield may not ever used at maximum output
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------2-----------2--------1 3---------3-----------3--------2 4---------4-----------4--------2 5---------5-----------5--------3 6---------5-----------6--------3 7---------6-----------7--------3 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------7-----------9--------4 10--------7-----------10-------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------8-----------12-------4 13--------9-----------13-------5 14--------9-----------14-------5 15--------10----------15-------5 16--------10----------16-------5 17--------10----------17-------5 18--------11----------18-------7 19--------11----------19-------7 20--------11----------20-------7
Maybe you could change it to a 1:1 until the bonus is half your level then 1AC:2mana
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------1-----------1--------1 3---------2-----------3--------1 4---------3-----------4--------1 5---------3-----------4--------1 6---------4-----------5--------2 7---------5-----------7--------2 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------6-----------8--------3 10--------7-----------9--------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------9-----------12-------5 13--------9-----------12-------5 14--------10----------13-------5 15--------11----------15-------6 16--------12----------16-------6 17--------12----------16-------6 18--------13----------17-------7 19--------14----------19-------7 20--------15----------20-------8
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-21-06, 11:50 AM #11
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_gathering2001
I still see a problem that I as a player would almost never use shield and not use arcane bolt between levels 5 and 11 (possibly higher) at level 5, third level spells become available that do the same amount of damage as the bolt but have areas, at level six they are more cost efficient. At level eleven the cap is in place for 3rd level spells but not other levels.
As compared to benifit the shield may not ever used at maximum output
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------2-----------2--------1 3---------3-----------3--------2 4---------4-----------4--------2 5---------5-----------5--------3 6---------5-----------6--------3 7---------6-----------7--------3 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------7-----------9--------4 10--------7-----------10-------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------8-----------12-------4 13--------9-----------13-------5 14--------9-----------14-------5 15--------10----------15-------5 16--------10----------16-------5 17--------10----------17-------5 18--------11----------18-------7 19--------11----------19-------7 20--------11----------20-------7
Maybe you could change it to a 1:1 until the bonus is half your level then 1AC:2mana
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------1-----------1--------1 3---------2-----------3--------1 4---------3-----------4--------1 5---------3-----------4--------1 6---------4-----------5--------2 7---------5-----------7--------2 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------6-----------8--------3 10--------7-----------9--------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------9-----------12-------5 13--------9-----------12-------5 14--------10----------13-------5 15--------11----------15-------6 16--------12----------16-------6 17--------12----------16-------6 18--------13----------17-------7 19--------14----------19-------7 20--------15----------20-------8
Ok, just a few things here. First, you don't get level 3 spells until level 6, it's the same spell progression as a sorcerer. Those spells will be a little more cost effective during the middle levels, theres little I can do about that. They won't be that much more cost effective however, I must thank you for pointing out that I forgot to put this in, in the Spell Point variant system, spells that have level dependent variable (like fireball, lightning bolt) always count as being cast as the minimum caster level that the character can use them at (so level 6 for Shapers). To increase that variable, the caster must pay 1 additional Mana for each caster level increase. for example: magic missile cast by a level 1 sorcerer costs 1 SP and does 1d4+1 dmg. That same caster at level 9 could cast magic missile using 1 SP, but it would still only do 1d4+1. To make it do 5d4+5 (MMs max) he would have to pay 9 SP. Or a fireball (5 SP cost) only does 6d6 for 5 mana. To make it do 10d6 (fireballs max) it would cost 9 mana. I have to add this into the "Spells" section above.
So fireball and lightning bolt will be a slightly better choice from levels 6-10, and I can't really think of a way to fix that without making Arcane Bolts broken in the long run. I've considered making Arcane Bolts a swift action, but I don't really like the idea of a high level shaper being able to fling 20d6 damage each round and still make a normal move and standard action. Perhaps they can use it as a swift action only a few times a day? Give me some feedback.
As for the Arcane Shield, you made a minor error in your first chart, the maintaining cost from levels 18-20 would be 6 not 7. Other than that, I like your idea. There are a few things to point out though. First, its a magical bonus, not an armor, shield, enhancement, etc. Magical is not a normal bonus and it's not a type given by the types of magical protection that this type of character would end up wearing (Ring of Prot., Bracers of Arm., Amulet of NA, etc.) so at the higher levels, it's a little costly, but it's gonna stack with everything else you have. Shield is also still on the spell list, and that spell is pretty useful at all levels. So at higher levels I didn't want the character to be able to add too much to there AC, at least not very easily. When combined with other pieces of equipment and spells, this ability will allow the Shaper to get their AC well into the 30's or maybe higher. Just for an example:
Bracers +4
Amulet +4
Ring +4
Shield Spell +4
Haste +1
Arcane Shield +11
AC:38
Thats with just +4 wonderous items, bracers can be as much as +8 and the others +5 (those differences alone would put his AC at 44!), then the possibility of feats like Dodge, and higher level spells that add to AC... this ability might be a little too powerful as it is!
Well anyway, thank you for all the comments, you got me thinking some more!
Keep it coming! I really appreciate it!
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-21-06 at 11:54 AM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-21-06, 09:03 PM #12
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
If the arcanist spends 6 on his shield every round (the equivalent of a third level spell) then he should get around 11 AC. Swift true strike is a 2nd or 3rd level spell that only works for one attack but provides twice the bonus. As for the high AC issue, many classes can get their AC into the sixties (80s with improved combat expertise) if they try hard(mnk 2 samurai 4 iaijitsu master 7 deulist 7 can easily).
You could make it an enhancement bonus so it wouldn't stack with magic armor or shields(have it replace one) if your really worried about it.
As for arcane bolt, maybe you could let him cast it for a small amount of mana then charge it? Maybe it does 1d6 per 2 mana spent to start but you can charge the bolt to increase its damage by 1d6 as a standard action or 2d6 as a full round action up to a maximum of 1.5 times your caster level(releasing it would be an attack action.) Or maybe it has a maximum duration of one round per two mana also so at 20th level that'd be 28d6 if they spent 20 rounds charging(would make for interesting mage duels)
alternatively you could let them apply metamagic feats to the activation cost(quicken for 8 mana, maximized for 6 etc.)
or you could let them use any one of their abilities as a swift action once per day per four levels or something
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-22-06, 04:31 PM #13
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
As for the high AC issue, many classes can get their AC into the sixties (80s with improved combat expertise) if they try hard(mnk 2 samurai 4 iaijitsu master 7 deulist 7 can easily).
I don't allow players to do that kind of rediculous multi-classing. They can if they want to, but XP penalties galore, they will soon ask that I kill their character so they can make one with only 1 or 2 classes.
As for the cost of the abilities, I really can't justify making them more complicated than they are. If players need calculators at the table, this is too complicated. I'm not saying I don't understand what your saying, I'm just stating that this would slow the game down alot and make it alot less fun for everyone other than the Shaper. But I do like the idea of adding metamagic to the Arcane abilities.
One thing I have been worrying about however, you made a very good point. The maintaining costs of some of these abilities are equivalent to 3-5th level spells, spells that are similar to spells that would have a duration. So why should they have to spend enough mana for a 3rd level spell every round? Perhaps they should only have to pay the maintaining cost every few rounds? Or maybe the effect will last for a certain number of rounds before they have to start maintaining it? perhaps a diminishing maintain cost, 6 mana to maintain the second round, 5 on the 3rd, 4 on the 4th, etc.? Or the opposite, 1 Mana to maintain the 2nd round, 2 the 3rd, 3 on the 4th, etc.? Give me some feedback on this. I could really use some help.
I greatly appreciate everyones input, if you can think of a way to increase the efficiency of any of the arcane abilities that doesn't require alot of math or a calculator.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-22-06, 09:02 PM #14
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Maybe shield could have a duration equal to its mana cost (the higher activation cost and no maintainning cost) or 1/2 its mana cost or AC bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_Desmond
I don't allow players to do that kind of rediculous multi-classing. They can if they want to, but XP penalties galore, they will soon ask that I kill their character so they can make one with only 1 or 2 classes.
It was an extreme example, monk 5/samurai 5/iaijitsu master 10 could also get a high AC with no multiclassing penalties as a human or most duelists and monks and iaijitsu masters..
You could make arcane bolt a standard action to cast and bestow the ability to make ranged touch attacks that do 1/4 mana spentdamage and lasts for 1/4 mana spent rounds.
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-23-06, 02:51 PM #15
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Some good ideas, I've gotta run for now. I'll ponder this over the next few days. I might not be able to post for a couple of days (hopefully I can) so keep sending me ideas, I will get them and give some feedback ASAP.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-23-06, 08:47 PM #16
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Ok I am gonna be able to post here again today!
I came up with an idea for absorption based on the Spellfire Wielder class from 2e. I had already been inspired by that class before, but now it came in handy again! Please give me some honest and helpful feedback on this idea:
Quote:
A Shaper may ready an action to absorb magic that secifically targets him. For every spell level absorbed, the Shaper gains 1 Mana in a "Reserve Pool." This reserve pool may contain an amount equal to the Shaper's Constitution score x2. Once the amount of Mana exceeds the Shaper's CON however, he must make a fort save every (round/minute/hour?) or lose all the magic energy he has stored in a violent eruption (1d6/mana lost; 40 ft. blast; reflex for half for everyone but the shaper, he can't dodge himself exploding ). Mana stored in the reserve pool is lost during rest. Mana in the reserve pool may be used in a few ways:
-It may be used on any Arcane ability ignoring the normal limit based on class level.
-It may be used to heal the Shaper at a rate of 2HP/1 Reserve Mana
-It can be used like normal Mana.
I'm out of ideas as to what else this "Special" Mana should be able to do. Give me some ideas as to what else it might be able to do!
Also, what level should the Shaper gain this ability? I was thing somewhere around 8ish give or take a couple levels. Let me know what you think!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-24-06, 09:46 AM #17
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Finally added a bit of fluff to the OP. It's a small excerpt from a short story I'm writting about a Shaper, it's not the best part, but it's the best part I can give for now. More fluff will be added with time!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-24-06, 10:59 PM #18
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I always thought the excess mana should go off like a staff of wonder personally.
As for uses for the mana...
the shaper can use this mana as if he had the benifit of the improved counterspell feat(some kind of extra mana cost would be necessary like +3 maybe)
the shaper can use this mana(and only this mana) to add a metamagic feat to his arcane abilities for as much mana as it would cost to cast a spell of the level increase twice
the shaper could have spell resistance equal to the amount of mana in this pool (replacing the current ability)
the shaper could do without sustanence for a day for one of this mana(kind of random though)
the shaper could use this mana to cast a spell he doesn't know for twice its mana cost.
Pick and choose, some of the abilities have more power or flavor than others.
By the way this inspired me to write a blueish mage class. Do you want me to post it here to see if you get any ideas?
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-25-06, 06:13 PM #19
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
What level....?
Ok my current problem with the absorption ability is what level it should become available at. The closest thing in the game we can compare it to is the spell Absorption. It is a 9th level spell, so it would be available at level 18 (17 for wizards though, and I'm going to go from 17 for this).
First, how is it better than Absorption:
+More Mana can be absorbed (about 20-30 for most characters)
+More uses for that Mana (including arcane healing)
+Latent ability thats always active (should it be though?)
+Casting 'into yourself' could supply you with some of this amazaing all-purpose Mana
Now, how is it worse than Absorption:
-Must ready an action to absorb
-You could explode from absorbing too much
Did I forget anything? So... based on what we see here this ability should be Epic! So I propose a better idea thats slightly more balanced:
-Can only be used a number of rounds per day equal to class level (maybe half that?)
-Still have to ready the action; if you don't get hit with a spell, it's wasted
-Maybe a smaller amount of mana can be absorbed*
-Maybe a Spellcraft check to identify the incoming spell so they will know how to absorb it
*Maybe something like Con + Con modifier; fort or explode once you exceed your Con score.
Just a few other points: I don't think this should be available to anyone other than characters at least mostly dedicated to the class, so it will not be lower than level 11. Imagine the horrible possibility of other classes multi-classed with this one so they can ABSORB magic... *shiver*. So my current plan is to drop the Arcane Defense ability to level 9 (same level a cleric would get the Spell Resistance Spell) and put the absorption ability there. But I'm still a little concerned that it's A) Too powerful. Period. and B) Too powerful for level 12 at least...
Thanks for the ideas for uses too. I think I'm gonna add the ability to use metamagic feats with it (cast a spell using only reserve mana to add 1 metamagic feat for free) and some sort of improved counterspell using it. Oh and please put a link here to your own class, I would love to see it!
Give me some feedback people! I appreciate it!
Later,
Des
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-25-06 at 06:16 PM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-25-06, 10:16 PM #20
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I could see it as the level 20 ability (something this class lacks), before there was epic all classes had a really cool 20th level ability (oh wait nevermind thats just me imagining things)
maybe you could put it at 17th level and have arcane storm cost at least one of this mana
other thoughts for limitations:
dissipates naturally at a rate of one per round
penalty on concentration checks equal to the number of mana stored
penalty on hide checks or an obviously visual effect
always has subdual damage equal to the amount of mana stored (dissipates when mana does)
limited uses of absorb per day(i don't like this one)
can only absorb spells you pass the save against (in addition to the current requirements)
requires a concentration check opposed by a caster level check(combined with the penalty on con checks is nice)
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-25-06, 11:14 PM #21
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Warning never been playtested or thought about overly
Mage Deulist
Code:
Level BAB F/R/W Special Spell Casting 1 0 0/0/2 Absorb Spell, Arcane Bolt +1 level of previous spellcasting class 2 1 0/0/3 3 1 1/1/3 Arcane Shield 4 2 1/1/4 Spell Resistance 5+level +1 level of previous spellcasting class 5 2 1/1/4 6 3 2/2/5 Evasion, Mettle 7 3 2/2/5 +1 level of previous spellcasting class 8 4 2/2/6 Spell Resistance 10+level*2 9 4 3/3/6 10 5 3/3/7 Energy Release +1 level of previous spellcasting class
Absorb Spell:
When a mage duelist is the sole target of a spell or spell like ability, he may use an attack of opportunity to attmpt to absorb that spell. To absorb a spell he must pass his save against the spell, and succede on a spellcraft and concentration check versus a DC of 10+two times the spells level. If he absorbs the spell he adds one mana per spell level to his mana pool and suffers all the normal effects of the spell. A Mage duelist may have a number of mana in his pool equal to his class level + his wisdom and constitution modifiers + 5. If he excedes this limit at the beginning of his turn, 1d6 mana escapes and forms a random magical effect (like activating a rod of wonder).
Arcane Bolt:
A mage duelist may release stored mana in the form of a searing bolt. The bolt is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d6 damage for every mana expended. The target of the bolt can attempt a reflex save for half damage. This damage is arcane damage and reduced by spell resistance (like fire damage is reduced by fire resistance)
Arcane Shield:
A mage duelist may release stored mana by enwrapping himself with it. This provides a deflection bonus to AC equal to the number of mana spent. He can only spend one mana per mage duelist level in this manner.
Spell Resistance:
A mage duelist gains SR equal to this value. He is considered to have passed his save against spells that fail to overcome his SR for the purpose of spell absorbtion.
Energy Release:
A mage duelist can spend a full round action, expend all of his mana in an explosion. The explosion has a radius of 5ft for every five mana expended this way. The blast deals 1d6 damage for every mana spent. Creatures within five feat of the edge of the blast can make a reflex save (DC 10+mage duelist level+WIS modifier) for half damage and anyone can attempt a fortitude save for 1/4 damage. This damage is arcane damage so spell resistance lowers it.
Last edited by magic_gathering2001 : 03-27-06 at 08:10 PM.
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-26-06, 04:46 PM #22
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Thanks for the feedback magic. I'm going to incorperate of few of the penalties you suggested into the absorption ability, and I think arcane storm will work off of some reserve mana as well. I'll post the finished absorption ability sometime today.
I like your PrC, but I have a few questions about it.
Firstly: what would the prerequisites for ths class be?
Quote:
he may use an attack of opportunity to attmpt to absorb that spell.
I like this idea, it will make combat reflexes a good feat choice. But I also think it unbalances the ability a little. Without having to ready an action to absorb and with combat reflexes, they could pretty much absorb anything that comes at them.
Quote:
Arcane Bolt:
A mage duelist may release stored mana in the form of a searing bolt. The bolt is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d6 damage for every mana expended. The target of the bolt can attempt a reflex save for half damage.
Why the reflex save? I felt this should work much like a magic missle: no save but spell resistance still applies. And that leads me to this:
Quote:
This damage is arcane damage and reduced by spell resistance (like fire damage is reduced by fire resistance)
What? Why are you changing the way spell resistance works? My best guess is that you don't know how SR normally works. When targetting a person or thing that has spell resistance you must make a caster level check: 1d20 + caster level. If the result is equal to or higher than the the targets SR, the spell takes effect normally, if it is lower than the targets SR the spell has no effect whatsoever. DMG 298. And that brings me to my next point: SR 30 at level 8? Thats a little high for pre-epic, at most I would give 25. Compare to armor of SR (SR 19 is a +5 bonus) or a wonderous item (Mantle of Spell Resistance give SR 21 and is a major WI costing 90,000 GP). And SR doesn't stack so it's ok to go a little higher than those example, but I wouldn't go much higher.
All in all I really like the idea behind this class, though if you wait for me to opst all the feats I've created for the Shaper in the next day or so, you may like what you see
Thanks for all the input, keep up the good work!
Later,
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-26-06, 05:57 PM #23
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Major Changes To The Shaper!!
Major!
Many of the above abilities have shifted up or down on the level scale and have new descriptions! The Arcane Absorption ability is done and included in the original post! Many of the other abilities have been updated as well. I'll put the absorption ability in this post so you can nitpick it directly from here, let me know what you think of it!
Quote:
Arcane Absorption: Close to mastering his control of the Winds, a Shaper of this level has learned to absorb these universal energies into his own body and contain them therein. For a number of rounds per day equal to the Shapers level he may ready an action to absorb any spell that specifically targets him. Like counterspelling, when the enemy spellcaster casts his spell the Shaper must make a Spellcraft check to identify the spell. If this check is successful, the spell is absorbed. If the check is failed then the spell affects the Shaper as normal. When a Shaper absorbs a spell he gains an amount of Reserve Mana in his Reserve pool equal to the level of the spell absorbed. A Shapers reserve pool may contain an amount of Mana equal to double his Constitution score (CONx2).
Reserve Mana can be used in the following ways:
- It can be used as normal Mana.
- It may be spent on any Arcane ability above the normal limit based on class level.
- It can be spent to heal the Shaper at a rate of 2HP/1 Reserve Mana.
The amount of Reserve Mana stored in the reserve pool has numerous effects on the Shaper as follows:
- Once the amount of Reserve Mana has exceeded the Shaper’s CON score, he must make a Fort save each hour (DC 17) or lose all the Mana in an explosion. 1d6/1 Mana lost; 50 ft. blast centered on Shaper; Reflex (DC = amount of Mana lost) for half damage. The Shaper cannot save. If the Reserve pool is full (CONx2) this save must be made every minute. If the Shaper absorbs more Mana than his reserve pool can hold, he must make an immediate save (DC 17 + amount of Mana absorbed over max) or suffer the above affects; if the check succeeds the Shapers reserve pool is at max, not higher.
- The Shaper visibly shines and as such takes penalties on hide checks and bonus’ on Intimidate checks as follows:
----- Up to Con: Eyes glow; -10 Hide, +4 Intimidate, -4 Concentration
----- Con and over: Eyes glow brightly, body sheds light as a torch; -20 Hide, +8 Intimidate, -8 Concentration
----- Max (CONx2): Eyes glow brightly, body shines as Daylight spell; Hide impossible, +12 Intimidate, -12 Concentration
Now thats done I'm gonna go work on the feats related to this class! I'll try to have them up later today if possible, but I wouldn't expect them until tomarrow.
Later,
Des
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-26-06 at 09:29 PM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-26-06, 10:34 PM #24
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
So I had a lot more time to work on this today than I thought I would. So heres the feats I came up with:
Arcane Feats
Improved Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements:Improved Shaping, Shaper level 5+, Concentration (7 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 5 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but may never be used during consecutive rounds.
Example: Duvo uses Arcane Shield on round 1 to increase his AC by 8 for 11 Mana. On round 2 he Maintains his bonus to AC for 4 Mana. On round 3 he may make a Concentration check (DC 16) to maintain Arcane Shield for free. On round 4 he must pay 4 Mana again to maintain his AC bonus. On round 5 he may make a Concentration check to ignore the maintaining cost again.
Greater Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements: Greater Shaping, Improved Maintenance, Shaper level 12+, Concentration (15 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 13 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but the character must still pay the normal maintenance cost at least once each minute its active.
Improved Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities, Wis 13+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were two levels higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability to use Arcane abilities.
Greater Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Shaping, Shaper level 9+, Wis 15+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were four levels higher that you are in the class that grants you the ability to use arcane abilities.
Summon Familiar [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain the ability to summon a familiar. This works just like the summon familiar ability of the sorcerer. For more information on the familiar see page 52 of the PHB.
Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Bolts ability
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts in melee to deliver touch attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. This may not be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast feature.
Improved Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +3
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts to ‘charge’ any weapon so that anything struck by the weapon is immediately struck by the Arcane Bolts. Charging the weapon requires a move-equivalent action. The amount of Mana that can be used to charge a weapon cannot be greater than your base attack bonus. This ability cannot be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast ability.
Greater Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: Charging your weapon with Arcane Bolts is now a swift action.
Arcane Attack [Arcane]
Requirements: Str 13+, Power Attack, base attack bonus +3
Benefit: If you pay 5 Mana per strike, you can resolve you melee attack with a weapon as a touch attack for the purpose of determining armor class. You must decide whether or not to pay the cost prior to making the attack. Your weapon remains charged for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod + 1 or until you attack with it. If the attack misses than the power is wasted.
Arcane Aptitude [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain +1 Mana
Special: A character may gain this feat multiple times each time gaining a number of Mana equal to the previous Arcane Aptitude +1.
Improved Arcane Flight [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Flight special ability
Benefit: Your maneuverability while using the Arcane Flight ability is increased to perfect and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Flight using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Shield [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Shield special ability
Benefit: Your arcane shield is charged with arcane energy. Anyone striking you in melee suffers 1d6 points of damage and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Shield using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Enhancement [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Enhancement special ability
Benefit: Any ability enhanced using the Arcane Enhancement gains an additional +2 magical bonus while the ability is active and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Enhancement using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Defense [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Defense special ability
Benefit: Your spell resistance gained through the use of this ability gains a +3 bonus and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Defense using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Energy Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Energy Substitution, ability to use Arcane Bolts
Benefit: Choose an energy type: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You may now choose to have your Arcane Bolts deal that type of damage instead of arcane damage.
Special: You may gain this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a different type of energy.
Let me know what you think of them!
Later,
Des
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-27-06 at 05:57 PM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-27-06, 08:36 PM #25
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Quote:
What? Why are you changing the way spell resistance works? My best guess is that you don't know how SR normally works. When targetting a person or thing that has spell resistance you must make a caster level check: 1d20 + caster level. If the result is equal to or higher than the the targets SR, the spell takes effect normally, if it is lower than the targets SR the spell has no effect whatsoever. DMG 298. And that brings me to my next point: SR 30 at level 8? Thats a little high for pre-epic, at most I would give 25. Compare to armor of SR (SR 19 is a +5 bonus) or a wonderous item (Mantle of Spell Resistance give SR 21 and is a major WI costing 90,000 GP). And SR doesn't stack so it's ok to go a little higher than those example, but I wouldn't go much higher.
No I know how it works, I just don't like the absoluteness of it. This changes it into a moderated thing for this ability only. Oh and i changed the SR, though its not high enogh to matter until level 8
Quote:
I like this idea, it will make combat reflexes a good feat choice. But I also think it unbalances the ability a little. Without having to ready an action to absorb and with combat reflexes, they could pretty much absorb anything that comes at them.
How many mages cast more than one spell per round? Still maybe I should make it like opportunist... Anyway even if you try to absorb a spell you have to pass a save, pass a skill check and even then you still take the effects. Absorb spell just fuels you in addition
Quote:
Why the reflex save? I felt this should work much like a magic missle: no save but spell resistance still applies. And that leads me to this:
Yeah you're right
What do you think about an ability that lets them become the target of a spell targeting someone else, how would that work mechanically
Quote:
----- Up to Con: Eyes glow; -10 Hide, +4 Intimidate, -4 Concentration
----- Con and over: Eyes glow brightly, body sheds light as a torch; -20 Hide, +8 Intimidate, -8 Concentration
----- Max (CONx2): Eyes glow brightly, body shines as Daylight spell; Hide impossible, +12 Intimidate, -12 Concentration
I would have the hide penalty goe -1 per mana and then impossible
concentration and intimidate go half of that.
As for the arcane feats, you may want to either take ability to use arcane abilities or shaper level requirements out of the prerequisites (redundancy)
I can't find arcane bolts blast so if it's there im missing something...
Last edited by magic_gathering2001 : 03-27-06 at 08:43 PM.
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-27-06, 09:26 PM #26
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Ok I'm gonna do this in 2 seperate posts, one about your PrC and one about the Shaper.
Quote:
No I know how it works, I just don't like the absoluteness of it. This changes it into a moderated thing for this ability only. Oh and i changed the SR, though its not high enogh to matter until level 8
Ok, I just wanted to make sure you knew. I like the way it would work I would just change the name to something that isn't already used in the game. Maybe Arcane Resistance or something like that.
Quote:
How many mages cast more than one spell per round? Still maybe I should make it like opportunist... Anyway even if you try to absorb a spell you have to pass a save, pass a skill check and even then you still take the effects. Absorb spell just fuels you in addition
I was more reffering to multiple casters targetting him at once. But with all the requirements behind absorbing a spell plus the fact that it still effects you I guess there really isn't anything wrong with the ability.
Quote:
What do you think about an ability that lets them become the target of a spell targeting someone else, how would that work mechanically
I like it! Reminds me of the "Cover" ability from Final Fantasy games. I think they would have to at least be close to the original target (say, within 10 ft.) Then make a check of some sort to draw the magic to them (Maybe Spellcraft, Concentration, Caster level, or any combination of the three).
I like the idea behind the class. My biggest suggestion to you would be to find abilities that exist in the game already that are similar to what you want, and use them as a sort of 'mold' to create your new abilities.
Keep it up!
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-27-06, 09:35 PM #27
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Now to address the points on the Shaper.
Quote:
I would have the hide penalty goe -1 per mana and then impossible
concentration and intimidate go half of that.
I thought about that too, but most skill modifiers in the game are constant. I like the idea of a simple, constant modifier more than a modifier that keeps changing and confusing you.
Quote:
As for the arcane feats, you may want to either take ability to use arcane abilities or shaper level requirements out of the prerequisites (redundancy)
I guess so. I just left it in there so it was clearly defined that you had to be a Shaper to take the feats. I know it's redundant, but it's there to get the point across clearly.
Clearly.
Clearly.
Clearly.
Sorry to repeat myself, but it helps you remember.
Quote:
I can't find arcane bolts blast so if it's there im missing something...
It's the upgrade the Arcane Bolts ability gets at level 8. The description is under the "Arcane Bolts" heading.
I think the feats really help fix some of the major problems with the class, especially the Shaping and Maintenance feats, they make the arcane abilities much more cost effective. I never really thought about it before, but without those feats they were wasting enough mana for 3rd-5th level spells every round for affects that weren't as good as a 3rd or 4th level spell. Now they get a better return for their Mana.
Well thats all I've got for now, I think this class will be totally complete very soon.
Everybody! Please send me some feedback!
Thanks!
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 12:56 AM #28
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucan_Desmond
It's the upgrade the Arcane Bolts ability gets at level 8.
OK then it looks good.
What do you think about this feat:
Needs a Name (maybe arcane combat?)
Prerequisites:
Arcane Absorbtion, melee bolts?, improved melee bolts?, greater melee bolts?
Benefit:
If you use reserve mana to fuel your arcane bolts, the effects is recast for the next 1 attack per special mana spent. You can not combine this ability with arcane blast or the improved or greater melee bolts feat you have
Normal:
The effect lasts for one round in which you may make one standard atack
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 04:22 AM #29
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Hmmm, wow. This is a lot for me to come upon and I've come upon it so very late in the discussion. What a pity. Either way, I really like it. It's quite good. There are only a few things that leave a sour aftertaste in my mouth. First, Arcane Absorption. It seems to be too easy. First off, the HP healing is way too good. You should either make it temporary hit points (you could even do 3:1 ratio) or a 1:1 ratio of real hit points. I would also consider forcing your shaper to spend all of his reserve magic at one go, so that even if he spends it on a first level spell, it all goes away at once. That makes it much more reasonable, in my opinion. As it is, that one ability could almost be a class-defining ability (though don't get me wrong, it couldn't stand alone).
Ummm, your feats. Cool. Great. Greater maintenence is too good. Other than that, they all seem fine (that's your choice on power-balance anyway). Oh wait. Arcane aptitude isn't good enough. I would replace that with one that increased your maximum shaping mana (probably by 2 for every time your toook the feat, can be taken multiple times). If you still wanted it to give mana, you could have it give mana equal to Cha Mod.
Arcane enhancement needs to not be (and/or). You should really limit them to one type at a time. I mean Jeeze. This isn't Naruto. Muscles don't work like that with adrenaline (and basically, you're giving them the ability to use mana as adrenaline).
I like bolts. I like shield. I like flight. I like defense.
Okay, my only suggestions for storm are these. Shaper loses 1/3 of remaining mana (min 1), which is automatically spent toward a damage increase. Shaper's anti-magic field is equal to 20 feet + 10 for every 20 mana he uses. These keep him from dropping it in a low level area, by sapping not only his physical self (after all, could he not simply *fix* the fatigue with arcane enhancement?), but also his maximum power for that day. After all, it's pretty horrific. Also, mana spent toward damage would have to supercede his maximum shaping mana in one turn.
Is it all right if I take this once you're done with it for my campaigns?
__________________
"Times change. There are times when one must be prepared to do anything in order to survive."
-Gyoro, Ururun
I need help on the following:
Spoiler:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=160137
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 06:03 AM #30
Jack Simth
Registered User
Jack Simth's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2005
Last Seen: Today (06:29 AM)
Posts: 1,422
Okay, I have a question:
Why would anyone take the Energy Bolts feat?
Arcane damage is basically untyped energy damage already; pretty much nothing will be immune or resistant to it (except for SR/Magic Immunity scenarios, which are not listed as being changed by the Energy Bolts feat), so adding a type to the damage doesn't bypass an energy immunity any better.
Okay, occasionally, Energy Bolts(Fire) will be useful, such as when facing something with Fire vulnerability (which happens, but isn't particularly common).
__________________
By the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
Jack Simth is offline Reply With Quote
Jack Simth
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Jack Simth
Find More Posts by Jack Simth
Add Jack Simth to Your Buddy List
Add Jack Simth to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 06:46 AM #31
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Yeah, fire is the only element that one would ever need, except perhaps cold for chilling one's vodka.
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 02:19 PM #32
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Hmmm, wow. This is a lot for me to come upon and I've come upon it so very late in the discussion. What a pity. Either way, I really like it. It's quite good. There are only a few things that leave a sour aftertaste in my mouth. First, Arcane Absorption. It seems to be too easy. First off, the HP healing is way too good. You should either make it temporary hit points (you could even do 3:1 ratio) or a 1:1 ratio of real hit points. I would also consider forcing your shaper to spend all of his reserve magic at one go, so that even if he spends it on a first level spell, it all goes away at once. That makes it much more reasonable, in my opinion. As it is, that one ability could almost be a class-defining ability (though don't get me wrong, it couldn't stand alone).
I might tone down the healing a bit, I didn't think it was too much since you can only use reserve Mana to fuel it, and reserve mana isn't that easy to obtain. I havn't done it yet, but I'm going to take the Cure series of spells off his spell list so that this is the only way to heal himself. As for making him lose all his reserve Mana in one round, I don't like it. I might impose an easier fort save (Like DC10 or something) to contain the Mana even when below half though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Ummm, your feats. Cool. Great. Greater maintenence is too good. Other than that, they all seem fine (that's your choice on power-balance anyway). Oh wait. Arcane aptitude isn't good enough. I would replace that with one that increased your maximum shaping mana (probably by 2 for every time your toook the feat, can be taken multiple times). If you still wanted it to give mana, you could have it give mana equal to Cha Mod.
I don't feel that greater maintenance is too good. You have to be level 12 to take it, and it's the only way I could fix one of the biggest problems with the Arcane abilities. Once you start maintaining them at higher levels, you're paying the equivalent of 3rd-5th level spells every round. Spells normally have a duration. If mage armor were on his spell list, the shaper could get +4 AC for 1 Mana and have it last a minute. But to do the same with Arcane Shield could cost 4 mana first round and 2 every round for the next 9 rounds totalling 22 mana!! With greater maintenance they can finally have that duration, I was actually thinking about reducing the level requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Arcane enhancement needs to not be (and/or). You should really limit them to one type at a time. I mean Jeeze. This isn't Naruto. Muscles don't work like that with adrenaline (and basically, you're giving them the ability to use mana as adrenaline).
I don't feel it needs to be (and/or) since you still have to obey the max amount of Mana you can spend in a round. So if you want all 3 stats pumped, they're only going to be pumped 1/3 the amount they could if you just pumped one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
I like bolts. I like shield. I like flight. I like defense.
Thank you! I try!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Okay, my only suggestions for storm are these. Shaper loses 1/3 of remaining mana (min 1), which is automatically spent toward a damage increase. Shaper's anti-magic field is equal to 20 feet + 10 for every 20 mana he uses. These keep him from dropping it in a low level area, by sapping not only his physical self (after all, could he not simply *fix* the fatigue with arcane enhancement?), but also his maximum power for that day. After all, it's pretty horrific. Also, mana spent toward damage would have to supercede his maximum shaping mana in one turn.
I'm a little confused by your wording, but Arcane Storm has gone through abour 15 revisions thus far. I think it's pretty much where I want it and it's about as easy to understand as it's going to get. The fatigue lasts until he rests. Period. The most Mana he could spend on the attack is 24 plus all the reserve mana he has. Thats at level 20 with the greater shaping feat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Is it all right if I take this once you're done with it for my campaigns?
Absolutely! If you would like this as a word document I have it fully prepared to be printed out, so I'll e-mail it to you if you would like. I don't have time today, I can only be on the computer for about 3 more minutes!
OK, thanks for the feedback !
Later,
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 04-09-06, 03:41 PM #33
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Any more questions? Comments? Critiques?
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 04-11-06, 04:47 AM #34
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Well, I'll make my little complaint about storm again, but simpler this time. I just think that if the shaper is sucking out al of the energy around him, he should be required to lose a percentage of his own energy as well. So I was suggesting that he be required to expend 1/3 of his current energy, to show how personal it is and how little control he has over its full fury. Of course, all that mana he expends should still definitely go into the damage. THat was all.
Oh, one more question. Do you think this to be balanced with the wizard?
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 04-12-06, 04:23 PM #35
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Well, I'll make my little complaint about storm again, but simpler this time. I just think that if the shaper is sucking out al of the energy around him, he should be required to lose a percentage of his own energy as well. So I was suggesting that he be required to expend 1/3 of his current energy, to show how personal it is and how little control he has over its full fury. Of course, all that mana he expends should still definitely go into the damage. THat was all.
Oh, one more question. Do you think this to be balanced with the wizard?
I felt the expenditure of the Arcane Shaper's personal energy was displayed with the fatigue. I could up it to exhaustion. If it costs more Mana then it would be useless, they could just use arcane bolts. I do agree that it should definitely wear out the shaper though.
Is this balanced with the wizard? NO! This is more powerful I think. I does have fewer known spells than a wizard could have though, so in that respect a wizard could be more useful to a party. As for pure combat though, I would take a shaper over a wizard. When it comes to balance, this class is over the top, I wouldn't go as far to say it's as powerful as a gestalt character, but it's close. If you wan't to balance this out a bit for a normal campaign, reduce it's spell progression to that of a Bard. That makes it much, MUCH more balanced for normal play. This class was originally designed for my campaign, where it completely replaces wizard and sorcerer, and every other class has some flavorful bonus'.
So just give it the Bard's spell progression, capping it to 6th level spells! That balances it out quite a bit.
Later,
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 04-13-06, 03:34 AM #36
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Cool. Could you just send me a copy of it when you're happy with it? I would also be interested in seeing these slightly more powerful classes as well.
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 04-13-06, 04:48 AM #37
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Excellent, I'll email it to you shortly. As for the other classes getting powered up, its not anything as planned out as an entire class. Small stuff like:
Fighters are allowed to choose a "light" fighting style. If they take this fighting style their Fort save is reduced to poor and their Reflex save becomes good. They are also allowed to add their BASE reflex save to AC when wearing light or no armor (I think I actually changed that to NO armor only)
Rangers, Bards, Monks, and rogues were also allowed to take that fighting style. I also gave the option of a "heavy" fighting style for Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians where they would gain DR from armors and their CON score. This one I wasn't sure how to work it, I was fiddling with a few options.
A) Con mod give DR equal to Con mod/- and armors have set DR
B) Base fort becomes DR/- when wearing heavy armor
C) Some combination of the two...
The only player I have that took the heavy fighting style was a Barb and I went with option A and allowed it to stack with the DR he got as a class ability. It isn't that rediculous, nobody complains about it. I am starting to worry about it though, he pretty much immune to small, non-magical weapons like daggers and short swords. I just have to be careful to never give that character anything that will enhance his Con...
Druids and Clerics didn't get any bonus', they're powerful enough as it is.
Thats pretty much all the changes I went with... everyones havin fun, so I must be doin' something right!
Later,
Des[/sblock]
no luck with the blademaster :\
found a few Mystic threads, but most are old :
[sblock]New Class: The Mystic
All in the Top Post!)
Merlion
04-18-03, 02:39 PM
I shall soon be running a small campaign, and I am making some relatively strong changes. Removing the Arcane/Divine magic divide, giving all classes access to many "Cleric" spells (including Healing), removing the Law/Chaos aspect of alignment and adding a new class...the Mystic.
They focus on healing and defense. Heres the info for you...mind, this is a first draft.
The Mystic
The Mystic is a Spellcaster whose power stems from a deep understanding of the world around them, and themselves. They spend hours in intensive meditation and observation of the world around them. Their spells focus on healing, defense, and spiritual matters. They can focus on specific types of spells, and as they grow in experience they gain special gifts linked to their deep understandings.
Adventures:
Mystics general adventure to gain knowledge and knew experiences. Since their power stems mainly from understanding, the more things and people they can observe and learn about, the greater their power becomes. Many good mystics are devoted to using their powers to heal and protect the innocent, while many evil ones work as advisers and magical support for powerful evil rulers in exchange for political power and luxuries.
Characteristics:
The power of a Mystics stems from their observation and understanding of the world around them, and of their own spirits. Their spells involve mainly healing and defense but the also have some offensive power and many spells that deal with other planes and dimensions. As they gain in knowledge an understanding, they also gain special gifts as a result of their insights. Eventually, Mystics transcend the mortal sphere and become magical beings.
Alignment: The majority of Mystics are good, using their powers to heal and protect the innocent. However many Mystics use their powers to control the minds of others, or become advisers and healers for powerful warlords in exchange for power and leisure.
Religion:
Background:
Mystics come from various backgrounds. Many are self taught…many seek out reclusive master Mystics to learn their ways. Many serve as healers and finders of lost things in small villages. Most discover their calling at an early age, but some choose to pursue the path of understanding later in life.
Races:
All races are drawn to the path of the Mystic. Humans and Elves are probably the most common, and many half elves are also drawn to a life of contemplation as an escape from prejudice. Half-Orcs especially those raised by Orcs, feel the path of the Mystic to be weak and inconsequential. Many nomadic Halflings become Mystics, since their travels give them ample opportunity to observe the world and its peoples. Gnome mystics tend to focus on using their powers to ward and defend gnomish communities.
Other Classes:
Mystics are great lovers of variety and diversity, and so tend to get along well with many types of people. Mystics get along particularly well with Monks, who the see as a different side of the same coin from themselves. Wizards and Sorcerers are fascinated and some times perhaps a little envious of the Mystic’s alternate approach to magic, and find their defensive powers an excellent compliment to their own destructive powers. Druids view Mystics as being a little unrealistic, but as most Mystics have a love of nature the two groups tend to get along well. Bards share the Mystics love of knowledge, knew experiences and travel. Rogues, especially those with criminal tendencies, tend to be a touch wary of Mystics and their keen perceptions. The warrior classes appreciate the Mystic for his healing and defensive powers. There is often a certain strain between Clerics and Mystics since they cast many of the same spells, but in different ways.
Game Rule Information:
Mystics have the following game statistics
Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell a Mystic can cast, how many spells a Mystic can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. To cast a spell a Mystic must have a Wisdom score of 10+ the level of the spell. A Mystic gains bonus spells based on Wisdom. The saving throw DC for a Mystics spell is 10 + the spells level + the Mystics Wisdom modifier. Charisma affects a Mystics special gifts, and Constitution increases the Mystic’s hit points.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills
The Mystics class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points and Each level: (4+ Int modifier) x4
Skill Points At Each Additional Level: 4+ Int modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Mystic
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the Mystic is proficient with all simple weapons. Mystics are not proficient with any armor or shields.
Spells: A Mystic casts XXXXXX spells. A Mystics selection of spells is limited, Your Mystic begins play knowing 4 0th level spells, and 3 first level spells of your choice. At each level a Mystic gains one or more new spells and indicated on the Mystic Spells Known table. A Mystics number of spells known is unaffected by his Wisdom modifier, however a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a sphere of Mystic spells gains an additional spell known at each spell level, but the extra spell must be from his specialty sphere.
A Mystic is limited to casting a certain number of spells per day, but he need not prepare them ahead of time. A Mystic’s bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and the saving throw DC for a Mystic’s spells is 10+ the level of the spell, + the Mystic’s Wisdom modifier.
Spheres:
Most Mystic spells are divided into Spheres. These are groupings of spells with a similar nature or theme, along with a set of Mystic gifts. At 1st level a Mystic may choose to specialize in a single Sphere of spells. Doing this grants the Mystic one extra known spell at each spell level which must be chosen from his specialty sphere, and a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks relating to spells of that Sphere. The Mystic must choose any one other Sphere of spells, to which he loses access. He cannot learn these spells, nor cast them from scrolls or wands. Additionally, a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere automatically gains the Mystic Gifts associated with that Sphere at the appropriate levels. A Mystic who does not specialize may choose any Mystic Gift of the appropriate level when reaching a given level.
Spells which do not fall into any Sphere are considered universal and may be learned and cast by any Mystic.
Mystic Gifts:
A Mystic gains certain special gifts as a result of his insight and understanding of the world. At 1st, 7th, 13th, and 20th level a Mystic may choose a Mystic Gift from the Mystic Gift list of the appropriate level. The Gifts are tied to the various Spheres of Mystic spells, and a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere of magic automatically gains the Gifts for that Sphere at the appropriate levels. The effects of various Mystic Gifts are based on the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
Transcendence:
Upon reaching 20th level the Mystic has reached a supernatural state of enlightenment and attunement with the cosmos. His type changes to Outsider, so he becomes immune to spells that only affect humanoids such as Charm Person, but he becomes subject to hedging out with a Magic Circle against his alignment and similar spells. Additionally, the Mystic gains a spell resistance of 25 and DR 5/Unholy (If the Mystic is good) or 5/Holy (If the Mystic is evil).
BAB and Saves are as a Wizard. Spells per Day and Spells known are attached as files down towards the bottom of the thread. Sorry about that
1st:
Alarm
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Hold Portal
Protection From Good/Evil
Mage Armor
Holy Bolt*
Shield
Summon Monster 1
Comprehend Languages
Detect Undead
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Sleep
Message
Magic Weapon
Calm Animals
Cure Light Wounds
Bless/Curse Water
Deathwatch
Detect Evil/Good
Inflict Light Wounds
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Endurance
Darkness
Daylight
Detect Thoughts
Magic Missile
Death Knell
Delay Poison
Consecrate/Desecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Calm Emotions
Enthrall
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Shield Other
Silence
Speak With Animals
Summon Monster 2
Undetectable Alignment
Charm Person or Animal
Arcane Lock
See Invisible
Misdirection
Spectral Hand
Darkvision
Levitate
Knock
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative Energy Protection
Protection From Arrows
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object
Spiritual Weapon
Invisibility
Disruption Blast*
Zone of Truth
Bestow Curse
Continual Flame
Create Food/Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Animate Dead
Invisibility Purge
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Nondetection
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Halt Undead
Displacement
Leomund'd Tiny Hut
Death Ward
4th:
Break Enchantment
Spell Resistance
Cure Critical Wounds
Dimensional Anchor
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
Contagion
Suggestion
Tongues
Greater Magic Weapon
Dismissal
Divination
Freedom Of Movement
Inflict Critical Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Poison
Restoration
Spell Immunity
Status
Summon Monster 4
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Enervation
5th:
Discern Lies
Antiplant Shell
Sending
Atonement
Mage Bolts*
Circle of Doom
Contact Other Plane(or Commune haven’t decided)
Dispel Evil/Good
Sending
True Seeing
Summon Monster 5
Hallow/Unhallow
Lesser Planar Binding
Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Improved Invisibility
Polymorph Self
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Hold Monster
Wall of Force
Dream/Nightmare
Magic Jar
Telekinesis
Permanency
Mark of Justice
Healing Circle
6th:
Planeshift
Forcecage
Teleport
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Ethereal Jaunt
Create Undead
Forbiddance
Greater Dispelling
Greater Glyph of Warding
Harm
Heal
Summon Monster 6
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Repulsion
Planar Binding
Analyze Dweomer
Circle of Death
Spell Turning
7th:
Geas/Quest
Etherealness
Word of Recall
Find the Path
Mass Suggestion
Greater Restoration
Greater Scrying
Holy/Unholy Word
Refuge
Greater Mark of Justice*
Regenerate
Resurrection
Summon Monster 7
Holy/Unholy Aura
Mind Blank
Sunbeam
Sequester
Insanity
Prismatic Spray
Shadow Walk
Finger of Death
Control Undead
8th:
Reverse Gravity
Teleport Without Error
Create Greater Undead
Discern Location
Mass Heal
Summon Monster 8
Symbol
Prismatic Wall
Greater Planar Binding
Maze
Trap the Soul
Demand
Sunburst
Mass Charm
9th:
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Gate
Implosion
Soul Bind
Summon Monster 9
True Resurrection
Freedom
Imprisonment
Prismatic Sphere
Power Word: Kill
Foresight
Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Weird
Shapechange
Temporal Stasis
Time Stop
Protection Grouping:
0th:
Resistance
1st:
Alarm, Endure Elements, Hold Portal, Mage Armor, Shield, Sanctuary, Protection From Evil/Good, Protection From Arrows
2nd:
Resist Elements, Shield Other, Silence, Arcane Lock, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Negative Energy Protection
3rd:
Invisibility, Glyph of Warding, Protection From Elements, Nondetection, Displacement, Death Ward
4th:
Spell Resistance, Spell Immunity, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement
5th:
Antiplant Shell, Improved Invisibility, Wall Of Force
6th:
Forcecage, Antilife Shell, Forbiddance, Greater Glyph Of Warding, Antimagic Field, Greater Globe Of Invulnerability, Repulsion, Spellturning
7th:
Refuge, Holy/Unholy Aura, Mindblank, Sequester
8th:
Symbol, Prismatic Wall
9th:
Prismatic Sphere, Foresight
Life Sphere:
0th:
Cure Minor Wounds
1st:
Cure Light Wounds, Deathwatch, Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid, Cure Moderate Wounds, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Endurance, Death Knell, Lesser Restoration, Delay Poison, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Create Food/Water, Cure Serious Wounds, Blindness/Deafness, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Death Ward
4th:
Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Cure Critical Wounds, Status
5th:
Healing Circle, Polymorph Self
6th:
Heal
7th:
Greater Restoration, Regeneration, Resurrection
8th:
Mass Heal
9th:
True Resurrection, Shapechange
Mind Sphere
0th:
Mage Hand, Detect Poison
1st:
Comprehend Languages, Detect Undead, Detect Secret Doors, Identify, Sleep, Calm Animals, Message
2nd:
Augury, Calm Emotions, Enthrall, Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, Speak With Animals, Charm Person Or Animal, See Invisible
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object, Zone of Truth, Invisibility Purge, Speak With Plants, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
4th:
Divination, Tongues, Suggestion, Arcane Eye, Confusion, Emotion, Locate Creature
5th:
Discern Lies, Sending, Contact Other Plane, True Seeing, Charm Monster, Hold Monster, Phantasmal Killer, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Telekinesis, Dream/Nightmare, Lesser Geas, Scrying
6th:
Analyze Dweomer
7th:
Insanity, Geas/Quest, Mass Suggestion, Find the Path, Greater Scrying
8th:
Discern Location, Trap the Soul
9th:
Astral Projection, Foresight, Weird
Antilife Grouping:
0th:
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st:
Deathwatch, Inflict Light Wounds
2nd:
Death Knell, Inflict Moderate Wounds
3rd:
Animate Dead, Halt Undead, Inflict Serious Wounds
4th:
Enervation, Inflict Critical Wounds
5th:
Circle Of Doom, Phantasmal Killer
6th:
Circle of Death, Create Undead, Harm
7th:
Control Undead, Finger of Death
8th:
Create Greater Undead
9th:
Energy Drain, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dimension Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Summon Monster 1
2nd:
Rope Trick, Summon Monster 2
3rd:
Blink, Summon Monster 3
4th:
Dimensional Anchor, Dismissal, Summon Monster 4
5th:
Contact Other Plane, Dimension Door, Lesser Planar Binding, Summon Monster 5
6th:
Ethereal Jaunt, Planeshift, Planar Binding, Summon Monster 6, Teleport
7th:
Etherealness, Shadow Walk, Summon Monster 7, Word of Recall
8th:
Greater Planar Binding, Maze, Summon Monster 8, Teleport Without Error
9th:
Astral Projection, Gate, Summon Monster 9
Smiting Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Inflict Light Wounds, Holy Bolt, Magic Weapon, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Magic Missile
3rd:
Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Inflict Serious Wounds, Searing Light, Spiritual Weapon, Disruption Blast*
4th:
Contagion, Greater Magic Weapon, Holy Smite/Unholy Blight, Inflict Critical Wounds, Poison
5th:
Circle of Doom, Dispel Evil/Good, Phantasmal Killer, Mage Bolts*
6th:
Circle of Death, Harm
7th:
Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray, Sunbeam
8th:
Sunburst
9th:
Energy Drain, Implosion, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dispelling Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Remove Fear
2nd:
Calm Emotions, Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Invisibility Purge, Remove Blindness/Deafness
4th:
Break Enchantment, Dismissal, Neutralize Poison, Restoration
5th:
Dispel Evil/Good
6th:
Banishment, Greater Dispelling
7th:
Greater Restoration, Holy/Unholy Word
8th:
Maze
9th:
Imprisonment, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Duality Grouping:
0th:
Light, Disrupt Undead
1st:
Bless/Curse Water, Detect Evil/Good, Holy/Unholy Bolt, Protection from Evil/Good, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Consecrate/Desecrate, Daylight, Darkness, Death Knell, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Undetectable Alignment, Disruption Blast*
3rd:
Animate Dead, Deeper Darkness, Halt Undead, Searing Light
4th:
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
5th:
Atonement, Dispel Evil/Good, Hallow/Unhallow, Lesser Planar Binding, Mark of Justice
6th:
Create Undead, Planar Binding
7th:
Control Undead, Holy/Unholy Aura, Holy/Unholy Word, Sunbeam, Greater Mark Of Justice*
8th:
Create Greater Undead, Greater Planar Binding, Sunburst
9th:
Freedom, Gate, Imprisonment, Soulbind
Mystic Class Abilities:
Protection Sphere:
1st level:
Mystic Force Field: At first level, the Mystic applies his Charisma modifier, if positive, as a deflection bonus to Armor class.
7th level:
Extended Protection: at 7th level, once per day the Mystic may cast a Protection sphere spell that will last for double the normal duration.
13th:
Mass Protection: at 13th level once per day a Mystic may cast a single Protection sphere spell with a range of touch or a target of one creature or object as an area spell with a radius of 30 ft that targets a number of creatures or objects equal to the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
20th level:
Invincibility:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may grant herself or a single touched creature the following benefits: a sacred (if the Mystic is good) or profane (if the Mystic is evil) bonus to armor class equal to twice the Mystic’s Charisma modifier, Damage Reduction 15/Unholy (if the Mystic is good) or 15/Holy (if the Mystic is evil) and a Spell Resistance of 30.Thease abilities last for 1 round/level. Invincibility is a spell-like Abjuration ability.
Life Sphere:
1st level:
Turn Undead: as Cleric
7th level:
Healing Gift: Once per day at 7th level the Mystic may cast a single Conjuration (healing) spell as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the spell slot used by the spell, or the casting time.
13th level:
Guarded Life:
At 13th level, the Mystic may add her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against energy drain, ability damage, ability drain and any form of negative energy attack.
20th level:
Empower Life:
Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may grant herself or another touched being the following benefits: Cure the target of all hit point damage, diseases, poisons, and ability damage, and confer a +4 bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, and a number of temporary hit points equal to her Charisma modifier(if positive) x10. This is a spell-like, Conjuration (Healing) ability.
Antilife Sphere:
1st level:
Rebuke/Command Undead (as Cleric ability)
7th level:
Lifetap: whenever you successfully damage an opponent with an Antilife Sphere spell, you are healed for half the amount of damage dealt. Any excess hit points beyond your maximum are lost.
13th level:
General of Undeath:
At 13th level the number of hit dice worth of undead you can control with your Command Undead power, and through the casting of Animate Dead (each separately) increases by one-half. So you can command or create a number of Hit Dice of undead equal to your level x1.5.
20th level:
Siphon Life:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may make a touch attack against a living creature with the following affects: the creature suffers 150 points of damage Fortitude save for half damage), and the Mystic is healed for half the damage taken as per the Lifetap ability, the subject takes 1d4+1 points of ability damage to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and the Mystic gains half the damage taken as an enhancement bonus to his own ability scores. The DC for the Fortitude save against the damage is 12+ the Mystic’s Charisma Modifier.
Smiting Sphere:
1st level:
Smite: Once per day at 1st level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spell and add his Wisdom modifier as either a bonus to each die of damage (for damaging spells) or to the saving throw DC (for other spells). The ability may be applied to spells affected by a metamagic feat. The Mystic can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level.
7th level:
Great Smite: Once per day at 7th level, the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spells as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the casting time or spell slot used of the spell. This ability may not be combined with the Smite ability.
13th level:
Strengthened Smiting: Starting at 13th level, the Mystic’s Smiting sphere spells gain the following benefits: +1 die of damage, +2 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus stacks with that granted by the Spell Penetration feat.
20th level:
Supreme Smite: Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting sphere spell with the following benefits: Double damage, +4 save DC, +4 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance.
Dimension Sphere:
1st level:
At 1st level the Mystic gains the Augmented Summoning feat
7th level:
Dimension Slip: at 7th level the Mystic can slide between the dimensions to cover distance in an instant. This ability is similar to the spell Dimension Door, but the Mystic can only move up to 20 feet per class level.
13th level:
Send Away: at 13th level the Mystic becomes highly proficient at dealing with extraplanar beings. The Mystic gains a +2 bonus to all dispel attempts against extraplanar beings, as well as to caster level checks to overcome the spell resistance of such creatures. This bonus is also added to the saving throw DCs of all Dimension sphere spells when used to banish extraplanar beings.
20th level:
Planewalker: At 20th level the Mystic becomes able to move between the planes more easily than most. She can Plane Shift once per day, and becomes immune to the harmful effects of a single plane other than her home plane that she has visited at some point. Additionally by spending a week’s time in meditation on another plane and expending 5,000 XP the Mystic may so attune herself to additional planes. This is a supernatural ability.
Mind Sphere:
1st level:
Still Mind: at 1st level the Mystic gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against Enchantment spells and effects
7th level:
Slippery Mind:
At 7th level if the Mystic is subjected to an Enchantment and fails her saving throw, one round later she may attempt the save again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw.
13th level:
Telepathy: at 13th level the Mystic is able to communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that shares a language with the Mystic.
20th level:
Mind Mastery:
At 20th level the Mystic becomes immune to all Enchantment spells and effects. Additionally, she may use her Telepathy ability to communicate with any creature that has a language.
Dispelling Sphere:
1st level:
At first level the Mystic gains the Spell Penetration feat
7th level:
Enhanced Dispelling:
At 7th level the Mystic receives a +2 bonus to all Dispel checks. This includes caster level checks made for the casting of spells such as Break Enchantment
13th level:
Empowered Dispelling: once per day at 13th level the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell that requires a Dispel Check (such as Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment) and automatically succeed at the check. The use of this ability must be announced before the spell is cast.
20th level:
Supreme Dispel: at 20th level the Mystic gains an additional +2 bonus to all dispel checks(this stacks with Enhanced Dispelling). Additionally, once per day the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell as a free action without altering the slot used by the spell.
Duality Sphere
1st Level:
Shield of Faith: at 1st level the Mystic applies her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities cast or used by beings whose alignment is opposed to your own, and spells with an alignment descriptor opposed to your own alignment
7th level:
Turn Evil/Good: at 7th level, the Mystic gains the ability to turn and destroy (if the Mystic is good), or rebuke and command (if the Mystic is evil) undead creatures. At 13th level the Mystic can also turn evil outsiders (if good) or good outsiders (if evil).
13th level:
Know Alignment: at 13th level, the Mystic always knows the alignment of any being he looks upon. If the being is protected by a spell that shields alignment, the Mystic may make a caster level check with a DC of 11 plus the level of the spell to perceive the beings alignment in spite of the protection
20th level:
At 20th level the Mystic gains the Celestial template, if good, or the Fiendish template, if evil.
And heres the new spells mentioned:
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 2, Good 2, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets.. Each bolt deals 1d8+1 points of damage.Only evil beings and undead are damaged by this spell. You have 1 bolt at 1st level, 2 at 3rd and an additional bolt for every three levels beyond 3rd (3 at 6th 4 at 9th and the maximum of 5 at 12th level).
Disruption Blast
Evocation [Good]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 3
Components: V, S
As Fireball, accept this spell creates a blast of intense positive energy. This energy deals 1d6 damage per caster level (max 10d6) to undead and evil extraplanar beings. Other beings take no damage.
Celestial Flames
Evocation [Good]
Mys 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F
Range: Medium (100ft +10 ft/level)
Area: 20 ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See Text
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell calls upon the power of goodness to smite the wicked. The area of effect is filled with what appear as shining white flames (although no heat or fire damage is involved). Evil creatures caught in this blast take 1d8 points of holy damage for every two caster levels, starting with first, to a maximum of 10d8 damage, and are blinded for 1d4 rounds. A successful Reflex save halves the damage, and a successful Will save halves the duration of the blindness. Good beings and nonsentient life forms are not harmed by this spell.
Mage Bolts
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 5
Target: 1 or more creatures or objects no two of which may be more than 15 ft apart
As Magic Missile accept as above, and as follows: each bolt inflicts 2d6+2 points of damage, and each bolt requires a ranged touched attack to hit its target.
Greater Mark Of Justice
Transmutation
Level: Clr 7, Mys 7
As Mark of Justice, accept that the caster may choose the following affects for the mark to visit on the target: 10d6 points of damage of any type chosen by the caster, stunning for 5d6 rounds, or 2d6 points of Constitution damage. Additionally, these affects take place upon the subject each and every time he attempts to take the prohibited action or actions
Tell me what you think
Merlion
04-18-03, 03:36 PM
Heres the 1st level of the spell list I am creating for the Mystic. Sorry its not in alphabetical order
Mind this is a first draft
Mystic Spell List:
1st Level:
Cure Light Wounds
Comprehend Languages
True Strike
Protection From Good/Evil
Deathwatch
Detect Good/Evil
Feather Fall
Inflict Light Wounds
Detect Undead
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Sanctuary
Mage Armor
Random Action
Summon Monster 1
Sleep
Message
Cause Fear
Calm Animals
Magic Weapon
Command
Bless/Curse Water
Remove Fear
Expeditious Retreat
Anticipated Attack(BOEM2)
Creature Loresight(BOEM2)
Object Loresight(BOEM2)
Negative Energy Ray(TAB, going to develop
a positive version)
Obscuring Mist
Low-Light Vision(MOF)
Know Protections(MOF)
Wieldskill(MOF)
Guilt(BOEM)
Precise Vision(BOEM)
Empathic Resonance(RAR)
Quiet Contemplation(RAR)
Serpents Stare(RR2)
Prevarications Bounty(RR)
Forereaction(RR2)
And some sort of less powerful Magic Missile variant I shall design
gpetruc
04-18-03, 03:40 PM
I made this some time ago for a low-magic renaissance world (jet unfinished).
http://digilander.libero.it/gpetruc/crystaldawn/mystic.html
Probably is not what you are thinking of, but just for giving some ideas, that's it.
Merlion
04-18-03, 03:45 PM
Ooo thank you...your right its not exactly what I'm after but its really quite similar...this will help me as I go thanks..
Merlion
04-18-03, 04:05 PM
As far as the basics I'm figuring d6 HD, Wizard BAB, 4 skill points and probably Craft, Concentration, Decipher Script, All Knowledge, Diplomacy, Sense Motive and Spellcraft..and Profession of course..
Merlion
04-18-03, 05:26 PM
Heres a rough draft of the spell list up to 3rd
Mystic Spell List:
1st Level:
Cure Light Wounds
Comprehend Languages
True Strike
Protection From Good/Evil
Deathwatch
Detect Good/Evil
Feather Fall
Inflict Light Wounds
Detect Undead
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Sanctuary
Mage Armor
Random Action
Summon Monster 1
Sleep
Message
Cause Fear
Calm Animals
Magic Weapon
Command
Bless/Curse Water
Remove Fear
Expeditious Retreat
Anticipated Attack(BOEM2)
Creature Loresight(BOEM2)
Object Loresight(BOEM2)
Negative Energy Ray(TAB, going to develop
a positive version)
Obscuring Mist
Low-Light Vision(MOF)
Know Protections(MOF)
Wieldskill(MOF)
Guilt(BOEM)
Precise Vision(BOEM)
Empathic Resonance(RAR)
Quiet Contemplation(RAR)
Serpents Stare(RR2)
Prevarications Bounty(RR)
Forereaction(RR2)
And some sort of less powerful Magic Missile variant I shall design
2nd level:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cats Grace
Endurance
Cure Moderate Wounds
Consecrate
Darkness
Death Knell
Daylight
Delay Poison
Enthrall
Hold Person
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Make Whole
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Silence
Speak With Animals
Spiritual Weapon
Undetectable Alignment
Zone of Truth
Arcane Lock
Fog Cloud
Summon Monster 2
Detect Thoughts
CHarm Person or Animal
See Invisible
Invisibility
Mirror Image
Misdirection
Scare
Darkvision
Knock
Levitate
Rope Trick
Wispering Wind
Divine Flame(DOF)
Divine Zephyr(DOF)
Knife Spray(DOF)
Filter(TOB)
Gaze Screen(TOB)
Indifference(TOB)
False Life(TOB)
Eagle's Splendor
Fox's Cunning
Owl's Wisdom
Curse of Ill Fortune(MOF)
Hand of Divinity(MOF)
Spell Shield(MOF)
Life Bolt(MOF)
Protection From Arrows
Mapping(RR2)
Life Shield(RR2)
Essence Flare(RR2)
Dragonhide(RR2)
Burst Of Energy(RR2)
Bread of Life(RR2)
Curse of Solidity(RR2)
Dead Man's Eyes(RR)
Virtue's Curse(RR2)
Static Veil(BOEM)
3rd Level:
Bestow Curse
Blindness/Deafness
Contagion
Continual Flame
Create Food and Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Invisibility Purge
Locate Object
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative/Positive Energy Protection
Obscure Object
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Stone Shape
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Wind Wall
Nuetralize Poison
Poison
Nondetection
Clairadience/Clairvoyance
Tongues
Suggestion
Emotion
Leomund's Tiny Hut
Displacement
Invisibility Sphere
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Haste
Lesser Telepathic Bond(DOF)
Sword Stream(DOF)
Arcane Sight(TAB)
Corpse Candle(TAB)
Feign Death(TAB)
Negative Energy Burst(originaly TOB, I plan to modify it and create a positive variant)
g'Elsewhere Chant(MOF)
Forceward(MOF)
Remedy Moderate Wounds(MOF)
Healing Sting(MOF)
Infestation of Maggots(MOF)
Reverse Arrows(MOF)
Blacklight(MOF)
Flashburst(MOF)
Undead Lieutenant(MOF)
Undead Torch(MOF)
Blindsight(MOF)
Greater Mage Hand(MOF)
Greater Sleep(BOEM)
Bone Tattoo(BOEM)
Bolt of Conjuring(BOEM)
Detect Dreams(RR2)
Mind Raid(RR2)
CHardun's Torments(RR)
Curse of Terror(RR)
Repair Dead(RR2)
Shadow Touch(RR)
SunSpear(RR will most likely modify and create negative variant)
Merlion
04-21-03, 09:50 AM
I will be posting more stuff on here as I hash it out. Imput on what I have is apreciated.
gpetruc
04-21-03, 02:46 PM
I didn't read through all the spell list, but I'm not sure on some of them, like summon Monster , Rope Trick, Leomund's Tiny Hut: they seem a little too artificial to be cast simply by begin very well focused with positive/negative energy ...
but this is only my opinion
What spellcastig progression would they have ?
Casting in armor ?
Merlion
04-21-03, 02:59 PM
Well the positive/negative energy focus is just one aspect. they are also strong in defense and utility of most types.
I am thinking of making them spontaneous casters with slightly fewer spells per day and more spells known than the sorcerer.
I dont plan on giving them any armor profciency...and since in my campaign theirs not going to be the Arcane/Divine split everyone suffers spell failure although I think I am going to alter it a bit.
I see their powers as stemming from intense medititation and oberservation of the world and themselves. they are focused on positive/negative energy, alignment(which in my game will consist of Good and Evil) and defense/utility.
Merlion
04-25-03, 02:25 PM
Ok here is the first real draft of the Mystic spell list, with just spells from the PHB for now, until I have it totaly fine tuned, then I will start adding spells from elsewhere.
I am seriously consider dividing their spells into several related groupings(perhaps Protection, Healing etc) and give them an option to focus on one area, gaining perhaps bonus spells known and having that determine their special class abilities in exchange for losing one area...something like that.
Anyway here it is:
(And just as a note, many of thease spells will be getting a name change)
0th:
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Cure Minor Wounds
Inflict Minor Wounds
Light
Purify Food and Drink
Resistance
Disrupt Undead
Mage Hand
Arcane Mark
Detect Poison
1st:
Alarm
Endure Elements
Hold Portal
Protection From Good/Evil
Mage Armor
Holy Bolt*
Shield
Summon Monster 1
Comprehend Langauges
Detect Undead
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Sleep
Message
Magic Weapon
Calm Animals
Cure Light Wounds
Bless/Curse Water
Deathwatch
Detect Evil/Good
Inflict Light Wounds
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Expeditious Retreat
Protection From Arrows
2nd:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Endurance
Darkness
Daylight
Magic Missile
Death Knell
Delay Poison
Consecrate/Desecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Calm Emotions
Enthrall
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Shield Other
Silence
Speak With Animals
Summon Monster 2
Undetectable Alignment
Charm Person or Animal
Arcane Lock
See Invisible
Misdirection
Spectral Hand
Darkvision
Levitate
Knock
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative Energy Protection
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object
Spiritual Weapon
Invisibility
Zone of Truth
Bestow Curse
Continual Flame
Create Food/Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Animate Dead
Invisibility Purge
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Nondetection
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Halt Undead
Displacement
Leomund'd Tiny Hut
Death Ward
4th:
Break Enchantment
Spell Resistance
Cure Critical Wounds
Dimensional Anchor
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
Contagion
Suggestion
Tongues
Greater Magic Weapon
Dismissal
Divination
Freedom Of Movement
Inflict Critical Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Poison
Resistance
Spell Immunity
Status
Restoration
Summon Monster 4
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Enervation
5th:
Discern Lies
Antiplant Shell
Sending
Atonement
Circle of Doom
Contact Other Plane(or Commune havent decided)
Dispel Evil/Good
Sending
True Seeing
Summon Monster 5
Hallow/Unhallow
Lesser Planar Binding
Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Improved Invisibility
Polymorph Self
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Hold Monster
Wall of Force
Dream/Nightmare
Magic Jar
Telekinesis
Permanency
Mark of Justice
Healing Circle
6th:
Planeshift
Forcecage
Teleport
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Ethereal Jaunt
Create Undead
Forbiddance
Greater Dispelling
Greater Glyph of Warding
Harm
Heal
Summon Monster 6
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Repulsion
Planar Binding
Analyze Dweomer
Circle of Deather
Spell Turning
7th:
Geas/Quest
Etherealness
Word of Recall
Find the Path
Mass Suggestion
Greater Restoration
Greater Scrying
Holy/Unholy Word
Refuge
Regenerate
Ressurection
Summon Monster 7
Holy/Unholy Aura
Mind Blank
Sunbeam
Sequester
Insanity
Prismatic Spray
SHadow Walk
Finger of Death
Control Undead
8th:
Reverse Gravity
Teleport Without Error
Create Greater Undead
Discern Location
Mass Heal
Summon Monster 8
Symbol
Prismatic Wall
Greater Planar Binding
Maze
Trap the Soul
Demand
Sunburst
Mass Charm
9th:
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Gate
Implosion
Soul Bind
Summon Monster 9
True Ressurection
Freedom
Imprisonment
Prismatic Sphere
Power Word:Kill
Foresight
Weird
Shapechange
Temporal Stasis
Time Stop
Merlion
04-28-03, 09:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 1, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack to hit your targets. Each bolt deals 1d6+1 points of damage. Only evil beings and undead are damaged by this spell. You can create one bolt for every two levels of experience, so you have 2 bolts at 3rd level, 3 at 5th etc up to the maximum of 5 bolts at 9th level.
I created this as a first level offensive spell for my mystic class. the level listings up their include cleric as it would also be a cleric spell in a typical campaign
Merlion
04-29-03, 08:05 PM
Ok here is the first draft of the class abilities for the Mystic. theirs a set tied to each sphere. a Mystic who specialiazes recives that suite of abilities, one who does not can pick from any ability at the right levels.
Bear in mind, this is a first draft.
Mystic Class Abilities:
Protection Sphere:
1st level:
Mystic Force Field: At first level, the Mystic applies his Charisma modifier, if positive, as a deflection bonus to Armor class.
7th level:
Extended Protection: at 7th level, once per day the Mystic may cast a Protection sphere spell that will last for double the normal duration.
13th:
Mass Protection: at 13th level once per day a Mystic may cast a single Protection sphere spell with a range of touch or a target of one creature or object as an area spell with a radius of 30 ft that targets a number of creatures or objects equal to the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
20th level:
Invincibility:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may grant herself or a single touched creature the following benefits: a sacred (if the Mystic is good) or profane (if the Mystic is evil) bonus to armor class equal to twice the Mystic’s Charisma modifier, Damage Reduction 15/Unholy (if the Mystic is good) or 15/Holy (if the Mystic is evil) and a Spell Resistance of 30.Thease abilities last for 1 round/level. Invincibility is a spell-like Abjuration ability.
Life Sphere:
1st level:
Turn Undead: as Cleric
7th level:
Healing Gift: Once per day at 7th level the Mystic may cast a single Conjuration (healing) spell as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the spell slot used by the spell, or the casting time.
13th level:
Guarded Life:
At 13th level, the Mystic may add her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against energy drain, ability damage, ability drain and any form of negative energy attack.
20th level:
Empower Life:
Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may grant herself or another touched being the following benefits: Cure the target of all hit point damage, diseases, poisons, and ability damage, and confer a +4 bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, and a number of temporary hit points equal to her Charisma modifier(if positive) x10. This is a spell-like, Conjuration (Healing) ability.
Antilife Sphere:
1st level:
Rebuke/Command Undead (as Cleric ability)
7th level:
Lifetap: whenever you successfully damage an opponent with an Antilife Sphere spell, you are healed for half the amount of damage dealt. Any excess hit points beyond your maximum are lost.
13th level:
General of Undeath:
At 13th level the number of hit dice worth of undead you can control with your Command Undead power, and through the casting of Animate Dead (each separately) increases by one-half. So you can command or create a number of Hit Dice of undead equal to your level x1.5.
20th level:
Siphon Life:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may make a touch attack against a living creature with the following affects: the creature suffers 150 points of damage Fortitude save for half damage), and the Mystic is healed for half the damage taken as per the Lifetap ability, the subject takes 1d4+1 points of ability damage to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and the Mystic gains half the damage taken as an enhancement bonus to his own ability scores. The DC for the Fortitude save against the damage is 12+ the Mystic’s Charisma Modifier.
Smiting Sphere:
1st level:
Smite: Once per day at 1st level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spell and add his Charisma modifier as either a bonus to each die of damage (for damaging spells) or to the saving throw DC (for other spells). The ability may be applied to spells affected by a metamagic feat. The Mystic can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level.
7th level:
Great Smite: Once per day at 7th level, the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spells as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the casting time or spell slot used of the spell. This ability may not be combined with the Smite ability.
13th level:
Strengthened Smiting: Starting at 13th level, the Mystic’s Smiting sphere spells gain the following benefits: +1 die of damage, +2 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus stacks with that granted by the Spell Penetration feat.
20th level:
Supreme Smite: Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting sphere spell with the following benefits: Double damage, +4 save DC, +4 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance.
Dimension Sphere:
1st level:
At 1st level the Mystic gains the Augmented Summoning feat
7th level:
Dimension Slip: at 7th level the Mystic can slide between the dimensions to cover distance in an instant. This ability is similar to the spell Dimension Door, but the Mystic can only move up to 20 feet per class level.
13th level:
Send Away: at 13th level the Mystic becomes highly proficient at dealing with extraplanar beings. The Mystic gains a +2 bonus to all dispel attempts against extraplanar beings, as well as to caster level checks to overcome the spell resistance of such creatures. This bonus is also added to the saving throw DCs of all Dimension sphere spells when used to banish extraplanar beings.
20th level:
Planewalker: At 20th level the Mystic becomes able to move between the planes more easily than most. She can Plane Shift once per day, and becomes immune to the harmful effects of a single plane other than her home plane that she has visited at some point. Additionally by spending a week’s time in meditation on another plane and expending 5,000 XP the Mystic may so attune herself to additional planes. This is a supernatural ability.
Mind Sphere:
1st level:
Still Mind: at 1st level the Mystic gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against Enchantment spells and effects
7th level:
Slippery Mind:
At 7th level if the Mystic is subjected to an Enchantment and fails her saving throw, one round later she may attempt the save again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw.
13th level:
Telepathy: at 13th level the Mystic is able to communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that shares a language with the Mystic.
20th level:
Mind Mastery:
At 20th level the Mystic becomes immune to all Enchantment spells and effects. Additionally, she may use her Telepathy ability to communicate with any creature that has a language.
Dispelling Sphere:
1st level:
At first level the Mystic gains the Spell Penetration feat
7th level:
Enhanced Dispelling:
At 7th level the Mystic receives a +2 bonus to all Dispel checks. This includes caster level checks made for the casting of spells such as Break Enchantment
13th level:
Empowered Dispelling: once per day at 13th level the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell that requires a Dispel Check (such as Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment) and automatically succeed at the check. The use of this ability must be announced before the spell is cast.
20th level:
Supreme Dispel: at 20th level the Mystic gains an additional +2 bonus to all dispel checks(this stacks with Enhanced Dispelling). Additionally, once per day the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell as a free action without altering the slot used by the spell.
Duality Sphere
1st Level:
Shield of Faith: at 1st level the Mystic applies her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities cast or used by beings whose alignment is opposed to your own, and spells with an alignment descriptor opposed to your own alignment
7th level:
Turn Evil/Good: at 7th level, the Mystic gains the ability to turn and destroy (if the Mystic is good), or rebuke and command (if the Mystic is evil) undead creatures. At 13th level the Mystic can also turn evil outsiders (if good) or good outsiders (if evil).
13th level:
Know Alignment: at 13th level, the Mystic always knows the alignment of any being he looks upon. If the being is protected by a spell that shields alignment, the Mystic may make a caster level check with a DC of 11 plus the level of the spell to perceive the beings alignment in spite of the protection
20th level:
At 20th level the Mystic gains the Celestial template, if good, or the Fiendish template, if evil.
Merlion
05-01-03, 09:28 AM
Ok heres the first draft of everything for my Mystic class, starting with the basics.
The Mystic
The Mystic is a Spellcaster whose power stems from a deep understanding of the world around them, and themselves. They spend hours in intensive meditation and observation of the world around them. Their spells focus on healing, defense, and spiritual matters. They can focus on specific types of spells, and as they grow in experience they gain special gifts linked to their deep understandings.
Adventures:
Mystics general adventure to gain knowledge and knew experiences. Since their power stems mainly from understanding, the more things and people they can observe and learn about, the greater their power becomes. Many good mystics are devoted to using their powers to heal and protect the innocent, while many evil ones work as advisers and magical support for powerful evil rulers in exchange for political power and luxuries.
Characteristics:
The power of a Mystics stems from their observation and understanding of the world around them, and of their own spirits. Their spells involve mainly healing and defense but the also have some offensive power and many spells that deal with other planes and dimensions. As they gain in knowledge an understanding, they also gain special gifts as a result of their insights. Eventually, Mystics transcend the mortal sphere and become magical beings.
Alignment: The majority of Mystics are good, using their powers to heal and protect the innocent. However many Mystics use their powers to control the minds of others, or become advisers and healers for powerful warlords in exchange for power and leisure.
Religion:
Background:
Mystics come from various backgrounds. Many are self taught…many seek out reclusive master Mystics to learn their ways. Many serve as healers and finders of lost things in small villages. Most discover their calling at an early age, but some choose to pursue the path of understanding later in life.
Races:
All races are drawn to the path of the Mystic. Humans and Elves are probably the most common, and many half elves are also drawn to a life of contemplation as an escape from prejudice. Half-Orcs especially those raised by Orcs, feel the path of the Mystic to be weak and inconsequential. Many nomadic Halflings become Mystics, since their travels give them ample opportunity to observe the world and its peoples. Gnome mystics tend to focus on using their powers to ward and defend gnomish communities.
Other Classes:
Mystics are great lovers of variety and diversity, and so tend to get along well with many types of people. Mystics get along particularly well with Monks, who the see as a different side of the same coin from themselves. Wizards and Sorcerers are fascinated and some times perhaps a little envious of the Mystic’s alternate approach to magic, and find their defensive powers an excellent compliment to their own destructive powers. Druids view Mystics as being a little unrealistic, but as most Mystics have a love of nature the two groups tend to get along well. Bards share the Mystics love of knowledge, knew experiences and travel. Rogues, especially those with criminal tendencies, tend to be a touch wary of Mystics and their keen perceptions. The warrior classes appreciate the Mystic for his healing and defensive powers. There is often a certain strain between Clerics and Mystics since they cast many of the same spells, but in different ways.
Game Rule Information:
Mystics have the following game statistics
Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell a Mystic can cast, how many spells a Mystic can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. To cast a spell a Mystic must have a Wisdom score of 10+ the level of the spell. A Mystic gains bonus spells based on Wisdom. The saving throw DC for a Mystics spell is 10 + the spells level + the Mystics Wisdom modifier. Charisma affects a Mystics special gifts, and Constitution increases the Mystic’s hit points.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills
The Mystics class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points and Each level: (4+ Int modifier) x4
Skill Points At Each Additional Level: 4+ Int modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Mystic
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the Mystic is proficient with all simple weapons. Mystics are not proficient with any armor or shields.
Spells: A Mystic casts XXXXXX spells. A Mystics selection of spells is limited, Your Mystic begins play knowing 4 0th level spells, and 3 first level spells of your choice. At each level a Mystic gains one or more new spells and indicated on the Mystic Spells Known table. A Mystics number of spells known is unaffected by his Wisdom modifier, however a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a sphere of Mystic spells gains an additional spell known at each spell level, but the extra spell must be from his specialty sphere.
A Mystic is limited to casting a certain number of spells per day, but he need not prepare them ahead of time. A Mystic’s bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and the saving throw DC for a Mystic’s spells is 10+ the level of the spell, + the Mystic’s Wisdom modifier.
Spheres:
Most Mystic spells are divided into Spheres. These are groupings of spells with a similar nature or theme, along with a set of Mystic gifts. At 1st level a Mystic may choose to specialize in a single Sphere of spells. Doing this grants the Mystic one extra known spell at each spell level which must be chosen from his specialty sphere, and a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks relating to spells of that Sphere. The Mystic must choose any one other Sphere of spells, to which he loses access. He cannot learn these spells, nor cast them from scrolls or wands. Additionally, a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere automatically gains the Mystic Gifts associated with that Sphere at the appropriate levels. A Mystic who does not specialize may choose any Mystic Gift of the appropriate level when reaching a given level.
Spells which do not fall into any Sphere are considered universal and may be learned and cast by any Mystic.
Mystic Gifts:
A Mystic gains certain special gifts as a result of his insight and understanding of the world. At 1st, 7th, 13th, and 20th level a Mystic may choose a Mystic Gift from the Mystic Gift list of the appropriate level. The Gifts are tied to the various Spheres of Mystic spells, and a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere of magic automatically gains the Gifts for that Sphere at the appropriate levels. The effects of various Mystic Gifts are based on the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
Transcendence:
Upon reaching 20th level the Mystic has reached a supernatural state of enlightenment and attunement with the cosmos. His type changes to Outsider, so he becomes immune to spells that only affect humanoids such as Charm Person, but he becomes subject to hedging out with a Magic Circle against his alignment and similar spells. Additionally, the Mystic gains a spell resistance of 25 and DR 5/Unholy (If the Mystic is good) or 5/Holy (If the Mystic is evil).
BAB and Saves are as Wizard. I have attached spells per day and spells known as files since they dont want to past right. I will attach one to this post and post another for the other one.
Now the Mystic Gifts:
Mystic Class Abilities:
Protection Sphere:
1st level:
Mystic Force Field: At first level, the Mystic applies his Charisma modifier, if positive, as a deflection bonus to Armor class.
7th level:
Extended Protection: at 7th level, once per day the Mystic may cast a Protection sphere spell that will last for double the normal duration.
13th:
Mass Protection: at 13th level once per day a Mystic may cast a single Protection sphere spell with a range of touch or a target of one creature or object as an area spell with a radius of 30 ft that targets a number of creatures or objects equal to the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
20th level:
Invincibility:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may grant herself or a single touched creature the following benefits: a sacred (if the Mystic is good) or profane (if the Mystic is evil) bonus to armor class equal to twice the Mystic’s Charisma modifier, Damage Reduction 15/Unholy (if the Mystic is good) or 15/Holy (if the Mystic is evil) and a Spell Resistance of 30.Thease abilities last for 1 round/level. Invincibility is a spell-like Abjuration ability.
Life Sphere:
1st level:
Turn Undead: as Cleric
7th level:
Healing Gift: Once per day at 7th level the Mystic may cast a single Conjuration (healing) spell as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the spell slot used by the spell, or the casting time.
13th level:
Guarded Life:
At 13th level, the Mystic may add her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against energy drain, ability damage, ability drain and any form of negative energy attack.
20th level:
Empower Life:
Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may grant herself or another touched being the following benefits: Cure the target of all hit point damage, diseases, poisons, and ability damage, and confer a +4 bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, and a number of temporary hit points equal to her Charisma modifier(if positive) x10. This is a spell-like, Conjuration (Healing) ability.
Antilife Sphere:
1st level:
Rebuke/Command Undead (as Cleric ability)
7th level:
Lifetap: whenever you successfully damage an opponent with an Antilife Sphere spell, you are healed for half the amount of damage dealt. Any excess hit points beyond your maximum are lost.
13th level:
General of Undeath:
At 13th level the number of hit dice worth of undead you can control with your Command Undead power, and through the casting of Animate Dead (each separately) increases by one-half. So you can command or create a number of Hit Dice of undead equal to your level x1.5.
20th level:
Siphon Life:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may make a touch attack against a living creature with the following affects: the creature suffers 150 points of damage Fortitude save for half damage), and the Mystic is healed for half the damage taken as per the Lifetap ability, the subject takes 1d4+1 points of ability damage to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and the Mystic gains half the damage taken as an enhancement bonus to his own ability scores. The DC for the Fortitude save against the damage is 12+ the Mystic’s Charisma Modifier.
Smiting Sphere:
1st level:
Smite: Once per day at 1st level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spell and add his Wisdom modifier as either a bonus to each die of damage (for damaging spells) or to the saving throw DC (for other spells). The ability may be applied to spells affected by a metamagic feat. The Mystic can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level.
7th level:
Great Smite: Once per day at 7th level, the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spells as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the casting time or spell slot used of the spell. This ability may not be combined with the Smite ability.
13th level:
Strengthened Smiting: Starting at 13th level, the Mystic’s Smiting sphere spells gain the following benefits: +1 die of damage, +2 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus stacks with that granted by the Spell Penetration feat.
20th level:
Supreme Smite: Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting sphere spell with the following benefits: Double damage, +4 save DC, +4 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance.
Dimension Sphere:
1st level:
At 1st level the Mystic gains the Augmented Summoning feat
7th level:
Dimension Slip: at 7th level the Mystic can slide between the dimensions to cover distance in an instant. This ability is similar to the spell Dimension Door, but the Mystic can only move up to 20 feet per class level.
13th level:
Send Away: at 13th level the Mystic becomes highly proficient at dealing with extraplanar beings. The Mystic gains a +2 bonus to all dispel attempts against extraplanar beings, as well as to caster level checks to overcome the spell resistance of such creatures. This bonus is also added to the saving throw DCs of all Dimension sphere spells when used to banish extraplanar beings.
20th level:
Planewalker: At 20th level the Mystic becomes able to move between the planes more easily than most. She can Plane Shift once per day, and becomes immune to the harmful effects of a single plane other than her home plane that she has visited at some point. Additionally by spending a week’s time in meditation on another plane and expending 5,000 XP the Mystic may so attune herself to additional planes. This is a supernatural ability.
Mind Sphere:
1st level:
Still Mind: at 1st level the Mystic gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against Enchantment spells and effects
7th level:
Slippery Mind:
At 7th level if the Mystic is subjected to an Enchantment and fails her saving throw, one round later she may attempt the save again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw.
13th level:
Telepathy: at 13th level the Mystic is able to communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that shares a language with the Mystic.
20th level:
Mind Mastery:
At 20th level the Mystic becomes immune to all Enchantment spells and effects. Additionally, she may use her Telepathy ability to communicate with any creature that has a language.
Dispelling Sphere:
1st level:
At first level the Mystic gains the Spell Penetration feat
7th level:
Enhanced Dispelling:
At 7th level the Mystic receives a +2 bonus to all Dispel checks. This includes caster level checks made for the casting of spells such as Break Enchantment
13th level:
Empowered Dispelling: once per day at 13th level the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell that requires a Dispel Check (such as Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment) and automatically succeed at the check. The use of this ability must be announced before the spell is cast.
20th level:
Supreme Dispel: at 20th level the Mystic gains an additional +2 bonus to all dispel checks(this stacks with Enhanced Dispelling). Additionally, once per day the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell as a free action without altering the slot used by the spell.
Duality Sphere
1st Level:
Shield of Faith: at 1st level the Mystic applies her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities cast or used by beings whose alignment is opposed to your own, and spells with an alignment descriptor opposed to your own alignment
7th level:
Turn Evil/Good: at 7th level, the Mystic gains the ability to turn and destroy (if the Mystic is good), or rebuke and command (if the Mystic is evil) undead creatures. At 13th level the Mystic can also turn evil outsiders (if good) or good outsiders (if evil).
13th level:
Know Alignment: at 13th level, the Mystic always knows the alignment of any being he looks upon. If the being is protected by a spell that shields alignment, the Mystic may make a caster level check with a DC of 11 plus the level of the spell to perceive the beings alignment in spite of the protection
20th level:
At 20th level the Mystic gains the Celestial template, if good, or the Fiendish template, if evil.
Now the Spheres:
Protection Grouping:
0th:
Resistance
1st:
Alarm, Endure Elements, Hold Portal, Mage Armor, Shield, Sanctuary, Protection From Evil/Good, Protection From Arrows
2nd:
Resist Elements, Shield Other, Silence, Arcane Lock, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Negative Energy Protection
3rd:
Invisibility, Glyph of Warding, Protection From Elements, Nondetection, Displacement, Death Ward
4th:
Spell Resistance, Spell Immunity, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement
5th:
Antiplant Shell, Improved Invisibility, Wall Of Force
6th:
Forcecage, Antilife Shell, Forbiddance, Greater Glyph Of Warding, Antimagic Field, Greater Globe Of Invulnerability, Repulsion, Spellturning
7th:
Refuge, Holy/Unholy Aura, Mindblank, Sequester
8th:
Symbol, Prismatic Wall
9th:
Prismatic Sphere, Foresight
Life Sphere:
0th:
Cure Minor Wounds
1st:
Cure Light Wounds, Deathwatch, Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid, Cure Moderate Wounds, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Endurance, Death Knell, Lesser Restoration, Delay Poison, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Create Food/Water, Cure Serious Wounds, Blindness/Deafness, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Death Ward
4th:
Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Cure Critical Wounds, Status
5th:
Healing Circle, Polymorph Self
6th:
Heal
7th:
Greater Restoration, Regeneration, Resurrection
8th:
Mass Heal
9th:
True Resurrection, Shapechange
Mind Sphere
0th:
Mage Hand, Detect Poison
1st:
Comprehend Languages, Detect Undead, Detect Secret Doors, Identify, Sleep, Calm Animals, Message
2nd:
Augury, Calm Emotions, Enthrall, Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, Speak With Animals, Charm Person Or Animal, See Invisible
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object, Zone of Truth, Invisibility Purge, Speak With Plants, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
4th:
Divination, Tongues, Suggestion, Arcane Eye, Confusion, Emotion, Locate Creature
5th:
Discern Lies, Sending, Contact Other Plane, True Seeing, Charm Monster, Hold Monster, Phantasmal Killer, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Telekinesis, Dream/Nightmare, Lesser Geas, Scrying
6th:
Analyze Dweomer
7th:
Insanity, Geas/Quest, Mass Suggestion, Find the Path, Greater Scrying
8th:
Discern Location, Trap the Soul
9th:
Astral Projection, Foresight, Weird
Antilife Grouping:
0th:
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st:
Deathwatch, Inflict Light Wounds
2nd:
Death Knell, Inflict Moderate Wounds
3rd:
Animate Dead, Halt Undead, Inflict Serious Wounds
4th:
Enervation, Inflict Critical Wounds
5th:
Circle Of Doom, Phantasmal Killer
6th:
Circle of Death, Create Undead, Harm
7th:
Control Undead, Finger of Death
8th:
Create Greater Undead
9th:
Energy Drain, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dimension Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Summon Monster 1
2nd:
Rope Trick, Summon Monster 2
3rd:
Blink, Summon Monster 3
4th:
Dimensional Anchor, Dismissal, Summon Monster 4
5th:
Contact Other Plane, Dimension Door, Lesser Planar Binding, Summon Monster 5
6th:
Ethereal Jaunt, Planeshift, Planar Binding, Summon Monster 6, Teleport
7th:
Etherealness, Shadow Walk, Summon Monster 7, Word of Recall
8th:
Greater Planar Binding, Maze, Summon Monster 8, Teleport Without Error
9th:
Astral Projection, Gate, Summon Monster 9
Smiting Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Inflict Light Wounds, Holy Bolt, Magic Weapon, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Magic Missile
3rd:
Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Inflict Serious Wounds, Searing Light, Spiritual Weapon, Disruption Blast*
4th:
Contagion, Greater Magic Weapon, Holy Smite/Unholy Blight, Inflict Critical Wounds, Poison
5th:
Circle of Doom, Dispel Evil/Good, Phantasmal Killer, Mage Bolts*
6th:
Circle of Death, Harm
7th:
Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray, Sunbeam
8th:
Sunburst
9th:
Energy Drain, Implosion, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dispelling Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Remove Fear
2nd:
Calm Emotions, Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Invisibility Purge, Remove Blindness/Deafness
4th:
Break Enchantment, Dismissal, Neutralize Poison, Restoration
5th:
Dispel Evil/Good
6th:
Banishment, Greater Dispelling
7th:
Greater Restoration, Holy/Unholy Word
8th:
Maze
9th:
Imprisonment, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Duality Grouping:
0th:
Light, Disrupt Undead
1st:
Bless/Curse Water, Detect Evil/Good, Holy/Unholy Bolt, Protection from Evil/Good, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Consecrate/Desecrate, Daylight, Darkness, Death Knell, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Undetectable Alignment, Disruption Blast*
3rd:
Animate Dead, Deeper Darkness, Halt Undead, Searing Light
4th:
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
5th:
Atonement, Dispel Evil/Good, Hallow/Unhallow, Lesser Planar Binding, Mark of Justice
6th:
Create Undead, Planar Binding
7th:
Control Undead, Holy/Unholy Aura, Holy/Unholy Word, Sunbeam, Greater Mark Of Justice*
8th:
Create Greater Undead, Greater Planar Binding, Sunburst
9th:
Freedom, Gate, Imprisonment, Soulbind
And the main spell list:
1st:
Alarm
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Hold Portal
Protection From Good/Evil
Mage Armor
Holy Bolt*
Shield
Summon Monster 1
Comprehend Languages
Detect Undead
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Sleep
Message
Magic Weapon
Calm Animals
Cure Light Wounds
Bless/Curse Water
Deathwatch
Detect Evil/Good
Inflict Light Wounds
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Endurance
Darkness
Daylight
Detect Thoughts
Magic Missile
Death Knell
Delay Poison
Consecrate/Desecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Calm Emotions
Enthrall
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Shield Other
Silence
Speak With Animals
Summon Monster 2
Undetectable Alignment
Charm Person or Animal
Arcane Lock
See Invisible
Misdirection
Spectral Hand
Darkvision
Levitate
Knock
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative Energy Protection
Protection From Arrows
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object
Spiritual Weapon
Invisibility
Disruption Blast*
Zone of Truth
Bestow Curse
Continual Flame
Create Food/Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Animate Dead
Invisibility Purge
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Nondetection
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Halt Undead
Displacement
Leomund'd Tiny Hut
Death Ward
4th:
Break Enchantment
Spell Resistance
Cure Critical Wounds
Dimensional Anchor
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
Contagion
Suggestion
Tongues
Greater Magic Weapon
Dismissal
Divination
Freedom Of Movement
Inflict Critical Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Poison
Restoration
Spell Immunity
Status
Summon Monster 4
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Enervation
5th:
Discern Lies
Antiplant Shell
Sending
Atonement
Mage Bolts*
Circle of Doom
Contact Other Plane(or Commune haven’t decided)
Dispel Evil/Good
Sending
True Seeing
Summon Monster 5
Hallow/Unhallow
Lesser Planar Binding
Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Improved Invisibility
Polymorph Self
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Hold Monster
Wall of Force
Dream/Nightmare
Magic Jar
Telekinesis
Permanency
Mark of Justice
Healing Circle
6th:
Planeshift
Forcecage
Teleport
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Ethereal Jaunt
Create Undead
Forbiddance
Greater Dispelling
Greater Glyph of Warding
Harm
Heal
Summon Monster 6
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Repulsion
Planar Binding
Analyze Dweomer
Circle of Death
Spell Turning
7th:
Geas/Quest
Etherealness
Word of Recall
Find the Path
Mass Suggestion
Greater Restoration
Greater Scrying
Holy/Unholy Word
Refuge
Greater Mark of Justice*
Regenerate
Resurrection
Summon Monster 7
Holy/Unholy Aura
Mind Blank
Sunbeam
Sequester
Insanity
Prismatic Spray
Shadow Walk
Finger of Death
Control Undead
8th:
Reverse Gravity
Teleport Without Error
Create Greater Undead
Discern Location
Mass Heal
Summon Monster 8
Symbol
Prismatic Wall
Greater Planar Binding
Maze
Trap the Soul
Demand
Sunburst
Mass Charm
9th:
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Gate
Implosion
Soul Bind
Summon Monster 9
True Resurrection
Freedom
Imprisonment
Prismatic Sphere
Power Word: Kill
Foresight
Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Weird
Shapechange
Temporal Stasis
Time Stop
And lastly, my new spells:
Mage Bolts
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 5
Target: 1 or more creatures or objects no two of which may be more than 15 ft apart
As Magic Missile accept as above, and as follows: each bolt inflicts 2d6+2 points of damage, and each bolt requires a ranged touched attack to hit its target. Alternatively, the caster may choose to discharge the spell as a single bolt doing 10d6 points of damage.
Greater Mark Of Justice
Transmutation
Level: Clr 7, Mys 7
As Mark of Justice, accept that the caster may choose the following affects for the mark to visit on the target: 10d6 points of damage of any type chosen by the caster, stunning for 5d6 rounds, or 2d6 points of Constitution damage. Additionally, these affects take place upon the subject each and every time he attempts to take the prohibited action or actions
Disruption Blast
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft +5 ft/2 levels)
Area: Cone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a blast of intense positive energy. This energy deals 1d4 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d4) to living creatures, but it deals 1d8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d8) to undead and evil outsiders.
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 1, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack to hit your targets. Each bolt deals 1d6+1 points of damage, and stuns the target unless they make a successful Fortitude save. Only evil beings and undead are damaged by this spell. You can create one bolt for every two levels of experience, so you have 2 bolts at 3rd level, 3 at 5th etc up to the maximum of 5 bolts at 9th level.
Merlion
05-01-03, 09:30 AM
Heres the Spells Known
Technik4
05-01-03, 10:29 AM
I couldn't get the spells known list, but judging by first level (1 extra spell known over sorc) I think your theme is 1 less spell/day than a sorc, but 1 more spell known. I'll kick this off by saying this isn't wise balance. The bard knows many spells, but can only cast a few. The sorceror knows a few spells, but can cast many. You are eliminating part of the sorceror's lack, thus your class starts off more powerful.
Your class also has equal progression to a wizard (though only with bonus slots, as all casters max their spellcasting stat, this becomes irrelevant).
Then you took the "school specialization" thing and ran with it, creating a specialization concept that also rewards you every 6 levels. Except even non-specialists get rewarded, so there is no reason to be a specialist (except 1 extra spell known, oh wait, they already know plenty and cast almost as much as the sorc, why lose access to some of these great spells?!).
Speaking of spells, as this class is replacing the cleric but is less focused on combat (bad BAB, no armor, lower hp) it deserves its own custom list. Note, I did not say "a list of the wizard's best spells bumped a level ", which is incidentally what that list looks like to me.
A quick "to-fix" list for you:
-Recheck the balance on spells known vs spells per day. The bard and the sorceror both have to make hard choice (the sorceror when levelling up, the bard on a daily basis), the mystic doesnt have.
-Re-adjust the balance on your "sphere" mechanic. I suggest just giving a specific metamagic feat (make the mystic apply it and charge them the level loss on spells). Right now it seems to prestige-classy to me.
-Think long and hard about which wizard spells to let in. I would take the cleric's list, subtract all the spells dealing with melee combat, then add some utility. Right now I guess there is too much utility, and too much totally out of place like Phatasmal Killer.
-Your class has more skill points than any of the core spellcasting classes except druid, who pretty much needs to devote points to wilderness lore and handle animal to be druid-y. Any reason for this bump?
Thats a good start anyway,
Technik
Merlion
05-01-03, 10:12 PM
I couldn't get the spells known list, but judging by first level (1 extra spell known over sorc) I think your theme is 1 less spell/day than a sorc, but 1 more spell known. I'll kick this off by saying this isn't wise balance. The bard knows many spells, but can only cast a few. The sorceror knows a few spells, but can cast many. You are eliminating part of the sorceror's lack, thus your class starts off more powerful
Actualy my starting base was 1 more spell per day than the Wizard, one more spell known than Monte Cook's variant Sorcerer. The Bard is a minor spellcaster. The PHB sorcerer is underpowered. Additionaly, I am not totaly eliminating any of his lack. Also your reasoning is flawed...a class having more of a certain something or being more powerful in a certain area doesnt make that a more powerful class overall. The Sorcerer has far greater access to firepower and several forms of utility than the Mystic. Also remember again that things work differently in my world...in my world sorcerers can do essentialy all the things a mystic can in terms of spells including healing. the Mystic is a better healer and probably better at defense than the Sorcerer, but the Sorcerer is better at damage and most utilities.
(though only with bonus slots, as all casters max their spellcasting stat, this becomes irrelevant).
I disagree with this on a number of levels. What do you mean by "max" their spellcasting stat? If you mean that all casters put their highest starting ability score in their spellcasting ability your mostly right. the large majority do. Some dont however..some opt to put the second score their and the first in Dex or Con. and the Mystic also must have a decent Charisma for their special abilities. Either way even with a Wisdom of 18, thats only bonus 4th level spells. Most are more likely to have a 15 or 16 which is at most bonus 3rd level spells. Most Mystics will be able to cast a single spell per day of a given spell level at the wizard-level for it, for the lower and mid levels. Thats hardly irrelevant. Now if you mean maxing with items well perhaps to an extent. I dont feel that every spellcaster spends all their resources on items to improve their casting stat however. That aside, magic items are not going to be quite as common in my world as in standard DnD anyway. We wont know for sure until its playtested of course though, it might have to be changed. Truth is in standard DnD where magic items are so easy to aquire the difference in spells per day between the wizard and sorcerer...one of the great balance factors between them...becomes quite a bit less.
Then you took the "school specialization" thing and ran with it, creating a specialization concept that also rewards you every 6 levels. Except even non-specialists get rewarded, so there is no reason to be a specialist (except 1 extra spell known, oh wait, they already know plenty and cast almost as much as the sorc, why lose access to some of these great spells?!).
Its called character concept. Roleplaying. Theme. That aside, one extra spell is one extra spell. plus the spellcraft benefits.
That aside it seems rather odd to me that you seem to think all of my work is overpowered...the sort of thing that theirs no "reason not to take" but then this comment seems to say that specialization should give greater benefits than nonspecialization. Truth is, I want the two to be as balanced as possible. I dont want everyone who plays a mystic to automaticaly specialize, or automaticaly not. I want the decsion to be based on taste and character development.
Speaking of spells, as this class is replacing the cleric but is less focused on combat (bad BAB, no armor, lower hp) it deserves its own custom list. Note, I did not say "a list of the wizard's best spells bumped a level ", which is incidentally what that list looks like to me
Again I think you are identifying the Mystic a little to much with the Cleric. It is "replacing" the cleric only in a limited technical sense. I am taking out the Cleric and putting in the Mystic. and the Mystic will be the best healer...well even that isnt entirly 100% true...IMC Druids will have the same access to healing magic as the Mystic so the only real advantage is the casting on the fly...so just dont fall into thinking of the Mystic as some sort of variant cleric.
As to the last part...well you must not be looking very closely. No Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Ice Storm, Melfs Acid Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Cone of Cold, Acid Fog, Delayed Blast Fireball, Invisibility Circle, no Illusions(Besides Invisibility which I am considering taking out...i'm not sure it fits), no Dominate spells, no Incendiary Cloud, no Disintegrate, no Meteor Swarm, no Fire Shield no Otiluke's Sphere spells, no Wall of Fire or Ice, No Horrid Wilting, no Wail of the Banshee, No Passwall, Vision, Legend Lore, Mordenkainen's Sword, Bigby's Hand spells...in short plenty of good wizard spells got left off. I used the Spell Lists for Variant spellcasters section of the DMG as my guide when writing the Mystic spell list. I assigned it strengths and weaknesses. the vast majority of their spells involve defense healing and divination. Their pretty decent at a couple of other forms of utility. the have some offense, litle of it involving damage. they essentialy have no illusion powers. I am very happy with the spell list...I think its perhaps the best part and the one that will need the least work.
Recheck the balance on spells known vs spells per day. The bard and the sorceror both have to make hard choice (the sorceror when levelling up, the bard on a daily basis), the mystic doesnt have
I disagree wth that...even a wizard often has to make hard choices when learning spells...I know, I played one for 15 levels. However, the spells known/per day IS one of the areas most likely to need tweaks after and possibly even before playtesting. I dont think its as bad as you say though.
Re-adjust the balance on your "sphere" mechanic. I suggest just giving a specific metamagic feat (make the mystic apply it and charge them the level loss on spells). Right now it seems to prestige-classy to me.
No to the specfic metamagic feats. To generic, to little flavour, and to much like a lesser version of the wizards bonus feats. I tried to make the first 2 abilities for each sphere about on par with a good feat, the 13th level ability along the lines of a really good feat or a bit above, and I just went all out with the 20th level abilities(also, all classes will be getting special things at 20th level IMC). I think the specialization part is going to work out pretty well. The Gifts themselves might need a little tweaking...playtesting will tell. Many around here complain that base classes give to little reason to stay wth them rather than take a Prestige Class....in a way I am trying to adress that...the Mystic gets benefits at all levels instead of having most of them scrunched up before 6th level or so like most of the base classes.
Think long and hard about which wizard spells to let in. I would take the cleric's list, subtract all the spells dealing with melee combat, then add some utility. Right now I guess there is too much utility, and too much totally out of place like Phatasmal Killer.
Thats essentialy what I did. We just disagree about what constitutes to much utility. Phantasmal Killer is not out of place...most of a Mystic's attack spells are either death spells or alignment related. Their spiritual nature gives them many life and death related powers.
Your class has more skill points than any of the core spellcasting classes except druid, who pretty much needs to devote points to wilderness lore and handle animal to be druid-y. Any reason for this bump?
My campaign will be using Monte Cook's Sorcerer which also has 4 skill points. I will probably be bumping the Wizards as well. I think more skills are rarely a bad idea across the board....they make great roleplaying aids and tools with little chance of negative balance ramifications when used in a manner that fits a groups playstyle.
All of this being said remember in case you missed it...this is a first draft, and a work in progress. Its not perfect. I think its pretty decent. I hope to get to playtest it soon, and I'm sure changes will be made. However I get a somewhat condescending vibe from you. This may well be unintentional but either way I find it a tad...annoying. try to remember that everyone's style of play and concept of balance is different. Rember also that I post rough drafts to recieve ideas and constructive criticism...for my fellow EN worlders to point out mistakes and concerns. your posts have felt more like lectures. Its probably unintentional but I just wanted you to know your coming across that way a tad.
Technik4
05-01-03, 10:42 PM
Its just criticism. I feel you come across in a certain way as well, but there is little sense talking about it. You came to the boards for criticism on your homebrewed mechanics, and I have given rather detailed opinions on what you have. You have the benefit of knowing all the other little things you will change in your campaign, I don't so I try to go by the phb, dmg, and mm. To me, a lot of your stuff seems overpowered but instead of really addressing it you just say "thats how it works in my campaign".
I can only shrug. If you want further help tweaking things, I will try and help. I am not perfect either, but feedback is better than nothing.
I have noticed you have a problem with peoples' "tone" in other posts, really I would just try and take what people are getting at and focus less on the semantics, if someone is replying they are probably just trying to help.
Technik
Merlion
05-01-03, 11:36 PM
Uh huh. well thats another one of those matter of opnion things. Its often diffacult to relate when two people have very different aproachs to this sort of thing.
I realize I know all of the changes I am going to make. l.But I've mentioned a good few of them in threads you've visited and you've seemed to pretty much ignore them. and I have addressed it when you've said a thing is overpowered. usualy I just disagree since most of it just seems about normal to me. Disruption Blast needed a change, and a changed it. but you even came to the conclusion that Mage Bolts is a pretty normal 3rd level spel
Truth is, I think most of this stuff would be pretty balanced...especialy once I can playtest it and get out the bugs...in more mainstream DnD. Once I have fine tuned this class for my own purposes, I may well try and submit an altered version to say Dragon or some such....probably bill it as an additional divine caster or "alternate cleric" and of course it will need substantial change for that.
But many of our differences really have little to do with the stuff relating to my campaign. I'm more interested in flavour than number by number balance for instance. I dont figure out damage ratios and stuff...I leave that sort of thing at the basics...level caps for damage different die types etc. I think theirs a lot of "core" stuff thats so weak theirs no reason for anyone TOO take it...like Sound Burst and Augment Summoning for instance.
Now if you really wanna help me out get a little more specfic. A lot of your statements just seemed pretty far out to me...like saying the spell list is just the best wizard spells bumped up a level. Where exactly is the too much utility? Teleportation? The communication spells?
What sort of specialization mechanic would you implement? How would you do their spell progression? You've done a lot of telling me what I did wrong with no telling me what I've done right or how I should actualy fix any of it. So your right its just criticism...but not really constructive critizism or advice.
Technik4
05-02-03, 03:10 AM
I think generally you are too quick to ignore current spells and embrace the damage die table advice for making new spells. Arguing that lower level cleric spells are too weak is sort of a weak argument, as first of all the spells aren't all that weak, and second those spells belong to the most powerful class in the game. The tables for what a wizard damage spell should do per level don't generally apply to the cleric, except in certain higher level spells, generally speaking.
There is no guideline or table for making feats. Augment Summoning is considered by many to be a pretty good feat for a caster who summons a lot. Personally, I think it is quite good, as adding an extra hit die, bonus to hit, bonus to damage every time you cast a certain spell is a strong bonus. What if there was an Augment Rays which gave a +1 bonus to hit and damage (per die) for any ray spell you cast? Would that be balanced? If so, then I feel Augment Summoning is also balanced, especially because Augment Rays seems overpowered!
As far as your spell list, utility is all well and good, but ask yourself this: "Is there a reason to play specialist wizard X based on the mystic's spell list?". If you can do that for all the specialist wizard types, then thats a good start. For me, eyeballing the list, it seems like a transmuter might as well be a mystic, as most of the spells are there in terms of buffs, and you can pick up healing spells.
Now we come to one of those points where its difficult to give accurate advice. You plan on giving all casters of magic access to healing magic, so it seems the whole lot of spellcasters is pretty muddled. One of the defining differences between arcane magic and divine magic (which I realize you are not using, the division) is that one can heal and one can burn. Generally, wizards enjoy more utility as well. You are blurring the lines which makes it difficult to see why you need all those spellcasters.
It seems like possibly making the sorceror fit your needs would be a better option. Delete the cleric, create the mystic, a cha-using core class which can spontaneously cast most spells from the cleric list with some homebrewed ones and some from the wizard and druid lists. This way you end up with less wis-based (divine magic in regular d&d is defined by the WIS modifier) magic.
I don't think there is room for another progression, personally. As I said in another post this is the balance (between spontaneous casters) Few Known Spells, Many Spells Per Day or Many Known Spells, Few Cast Per Day. There aren't really more variables to throw in there, so by getting rid of the sorceror (who the mystic is very close to as of now) and getting rid of the cleric (who the mystic's spell list is mostly emulating) each class can retain something in a very magic-open environment.
As far as specialization, I would go with the core material (as usual). Clerics don't have specializations, they have domains. Perhaps you could implement domains for mystics, which would give access to some of your homebrewed (powerful, imo) spells. Basically take the spheres and change them into domains (mechanically. you could still call them spheres). This way you could also give them certain benefits for having certain domains, as well as powerful unique spells.
For instance, under this system, a mystic would have to have the "Life" sphere in order to cast healing spells and the "Smite" sphere for access to the good offensive spells. You already have written up groupings of spells, this would cause you to shorten the lists for these (spells not in domains can be taken by any mystic). Further, you could implement a bonus ability for sphere, like with the Life sphere you get Turn Undead as a cleric.
Its hard for me to judge the higher level sphere abilities since you said you planned on doing this for all classes, so its hard for me to see the balance. Also, if you feel it is balanced and are on the playtest stage, then it seems house rules isn't really the forum for you. If you've already made up your mind that it follows the rules in the dmg, and is a good spell for your campaign, then posting here and asking for criticism doesn't make sense.
Anyway, thats my advice. It is probably a little too radical, but I agree we aren't exactly on the same page anyway. I hope everything works out well with your new class and spells.
Technik
Merlion
05-02-03, 09:19 AM
Ok this is much more constructive
I am not sure exactly when I am going to playtest it will probably be a couple of weeks or so. And I will probably do a little more refining of certain points before we move on to that. So I am putting my stuff here to try and get a broad range of opnions and advice and ideas. Now to address what your saying specficaly:
I think generally you are too quick to ignore current spells and embrace the damage die table advice for making new spells. Arguing that lower level cleric spells are too weak is sort of a weak argument, as first of all the spells aren't all that weak, and second those spells belong to the most powerful class in the game. The tables for what a wizard damage spell should do per level don't generally apply to the cleric, except in certain higher level spells, generally speaking.
Well Divine magic of course has its own table in the DMG, and when designing more new Mystic spells I will probably be using both. I DO ignore some current spells. I usualy disregard those I feel are drasticaly underpowered and/or dont relate much to what I am doing as I see it. Now your right about the Cleric being the most powerful class in the game (and I wonder how you feel about that given your focus on balance), but while the Cleric is a big source of material for my Mystic especialy in spell list terms theirs a lot of big differences. the Mystic doesnt get the Clerics inherent combat abilities (Armor, BAB, HD) and they lose a lot of the more combat enhancing related spells( Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor etc), but they get somewhat better attack spells usualy with a narrow range, and more utility spells.
There is no guideline or table for making feats. Augment Summoning is considered by many to be a pretty good feat for a caster who summons a lot. Personally, I think it is quite good, as adding an extra hit die, bonus to hit, bonus to damage every time you cast a certain spell is a strong bonus. What if there was an Augment Rays which gave a +1 bonus to hit and damage (per die) for any ray spell you cast? Would that be balanced? If so, then I feel Augment Summoning is also balanced, especially because Augment Rays seems overpowered!
Actualy Augment Ray would seem underpowered to me since their are only a handful of core ray spells and none of them deal damage...so it basicaly gives you the same bonus as Weapon Focus(Rays). and if you want to increase the DC for the saves of the best of the ray spells, Disintegrate, you've got Spell Focus (Transmutation). Now where I'm going with this is many "magical aproachs" already have a lot of feat support, especialy those involving targeting spells and damage spells. Evocation, Transmutation and Enchantment all benefit enourmously from Spell Focus(and Greater Spell Focus). Damage spells of all sorts benefit from spells such as Empower and Maximize spell. Even protective spells can benefit a lot from Extend Spell(and Persistent Spell). However the Summoning aproach has little support. Yes Extend can increase the duration and Empower/Maximize can increase the number of lesser creatures you can summon...but thats really not much of a benefit. Augment Summoning would be pretty good if you can take it at first level. and the whole deal would be good if their were multiple summoning enhancement feats. and remember it does NOT add an extra Hit Die as you say it adds 1 hit point per hit die, and +1 attack and damage. Now at 1st up through third level or so this would be decent. but you cant take it until 3rd level. and by 7th level or so its almost useless...the +1 attack and damage is essentialy meaningless...and the hit points are not that great especialy with the so so creatures you can summon with standard summoning. Now how would you feel if my Augmented Summoning was the same as Augment Summoning, but attainble at 1st level, and the others the same(a logical extension chain with each previous as a prerequisite?)
As far as your spell list, utility is all well and good, but ask yourself this: "Is there a reason to play specialist wizard X based on the mystic's spell list?". If you can do that for all the specialist wizard types, then thats a good start. For me, eyeballing the list, it seems like a transmuter might as well be a mystic, as most of the spells are there in terms of buffs, and you can pick up healing spells.
Here I think our difference in aproach comes in. For me the most important factor overall, generaly, in most choices and especialy choice of class, is flavour and character concept. now obviously theirs some overlap here. But take the standard wizard and Sorcerer. Given the Sorcerers spell list and casting method/spells per day, is their any reason to play any sort of specialist wizard? You can just play a Sorcerer and pick mostly spells from that school and take Spell Focus, and you'll be able to cast more of them per day, without having to prepare them.
I'm not sure what you mean about the Transmuter and buffs. Wizards dont really get many buffs...the basic Ability Score increasers(which all spellcasters get at least some of...including the Druid IMC)...Haste(which the Mystic doesnt get)...Keen Edge...etc. Now of course the Mystic gets some Cleric-y buffs but of course they are focused mainly on healing defense and divination. What buffs do you think are excessive? I also made a point of giving them minimal form changing, and only self-changing...they get Polymorph Self(as a 5th level spell) and Shapechange. I intentionaly left out Polymorph Other and Poly Any Object. And I bumped the teleportation up a level. Hmm...I might consider making Rope Trick 3rd level tho it can be abused pretty well...
Now we come to one of those points where its difficult to give accurate advice. You plan on giving all casters of magic access to healing magic, so it seems the whole lot of spellcasters is pretty muddled. One of the defining differences between arcane magic and divine magic (which I realize you are not using, the division) is that one can heal and one can burn. Generally, wizards enjoy more utility as well. You are blurring the lines which makes it difficult to see why you need all those spellcasters.
I think this is another major source of our miscommunication. Yes, I am blurring the lines. Its quite intentional. I dont "need" all those spellcasters. I WANT all those spellcasters. I dont feel that theirs just 2 magical roles that need filling. Because beside magical effect, their is also magical aproach. Now let me clarify something...I try to use the mechanics of this game to reflect fantasy litertaure and mythology(or at least my favorites there of and in most such stories, magic is magic. Different types of magic have a lot to do with aproach and somewhat to do with effect. Theirs certain things almost anyone who can use magic can do to a lesser or greater extent. Attack, defend, heal. their are eceptions to this of course but its sort of what I'm going with. Any magical type can do just about anything IMC but some are better at some things than others. Wizards and Sorcerers are best by far at offense especialy damaging offense(as oposed to insta death etc) and probably roughly tied with Druids for mastery of Elemental Magic. Mystics and Druids are best at healing, and Mystics are the masters of Defense. They can all do some of everything but the difference and the interest comes in aproach and execution. Wizards and Sorcerers are much the same as in standard...Wizards the tomes and learned magic, Sorcerers inborn/bloodline based, the Mystic with their medititation and observation(in aproach I see them as a bit like the magical equivalant of the Monk) and Druids drawing power from life and nature. When Arcana Unearthed comes out if this campaign gets off the ground and is still running I will probably be implementing a lot of its mechanics especialy as far as magic...unified spell list etc. What I am doing is sort of a DnD version of that. So I have no desire to delete any of the other spellcasting classes. the Cleric was the only one that didnt fit into my world...plus I feel that the standard DnD Cleric is overpowered and since what little of the concept I like can be emulated by the Mystic(or in truth, anyone) their was no reason to go to the trouble of revising it. However, your ideas would work well if I was going for something like you describe...something more minimalist. They'd be perfect if you wanted to just tweak basic DnD a little and narrow the focus of the magic users..but my goal is to broaden both focus and aproach.
As far as specialization, I would go with the core material (as usual). Clerics don't have specializations, they have domains. Perhaps you could implement domains for mystics, which would give access to some of your homebrewed (powerful, imo) spells. Basically take the spheres and change them into domains (mechanically. you could still call them spheres). This way you could also give them certain benefits for having certain domains, as well as powerful unique spells.
I'm not sure I entirly understand what your describing. are you saying remove a lot of spells from the base spell list and make them avaible only via the spheres? Thats a good idea although it would require a pretty massive overhaul. Also as I said I like most of whats in the spell list and want all Mystics to have access to most of it, for instance your example of having to have the Life sphere to cast healing spells...healing spells are one of the main focuses of the class, in any form. However as you say it would be useful for some spells I might want to create to have them avaible only via the spheres and not on the standard list. I will definitly keep that in mind. I do want to try and preserve a specialzation mechanic as oposed to a cleric-like automatic "domain" sort of thing. I have always liked the idea of spellcasters focusing specialy on a certain type of magic. However this is an area that may well need work, and I may end up implementing a system more simliar to domains so I would like more detail and clarification of your ideas.
Its hard for me to judge the higher level sphere abilities since you said you planned on doing this for all classes, so its hard for me to see the balance
This is very true. Havent even come up with the 20th level abilities for the other classes(well, the Monk's is built in...incdentaly what do you think of renaming the Monk the Adept(no aept NPC class IMC). I just kind of figure that a character should get something pretty big for finishing out the standard progression
Merlion
05-05-03, 09:34 AM
Ok heres Spells Per Day again so maybe it will be easy to find..
Merlion
05-05-03, 09:35 AM
and Spells Known[/sblock]
[sblock]
My Mystic Theurge Variant!
Angcuru
04-15-03, 05:03 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/hero/madius/Mystic_Theurge_Variant.doc
I've been looking for something like this for my upcoming campaign, and I think it works out very well. I changed it so that the Mystic Theurge is a base/core/non-PrC class, and is more balanced.
Moe Ronalds
04-15-03, 05:18 PM
Well, what I see is a character that can get 20 wizard spell levels, 5 cleric spell levels, all the wizard special abilities, a few clerical ones, AND a better HD than the wizard. IOW, I don't see a downside.
seasong
04-15-03, 05:19 PM
Link for the lazy: Angcuru's Mystic Theurge variant (word doc) (http://www.angelfire.com/hero/madius/Mystic_Theurge_Variant.doc).
Angcuru
04-15-03, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Moe Ronalds
Well, what I see is a character that can get 20 wizard spell levels, 5 cleric spell levels, all the wizard special abilities, a few clerical ones, AND a better HD than the wizard. IOW, I don't see a downside.
Who ever said I designed it to have a downside. I'm asking for feedback, I.E. suggestions for changes.
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 05:40 PM
My changes would be:
HD: d4.
Lose the armor and shield proficiencies, but keep simple weapons.
Special Abilities:
Level 1 - Domains.
Level 2 - Summon Familiar.
Level 3 - Craft Single-Use Item (allows you to create potions, scrolls or other use once and throw away magic items, which replaces Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll and Craft Talisman IMC, it's in Green Ronin's Plot & Poison Drow book).
Level 5 - Turn Undead.
Level 10 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 15 Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 20 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 06:06 PM
Here's my modified version that spreads its abilities out over several levels, adds domain powers and reduces Turn Undead effectiveness while eliminating spontaneous casting.
Mystic Theurge Variant (Core Class) By Jeremy Summers
(Iron_Chef variant)
Key Abilities: High Wisdom and Intelligence Scores are essential. High dexterity is useful since this class prefers to wear light armor, if any at all. A high constitution is useful, as they are not very sturdy.
Hit Dice: d4.
Abbreviation: MTv
Class Skills:
The (MTv’s) class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (any/all) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier.
Class Features:
Armor and Weapon Proficiency: (MTv)s are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any armor nor with shields.
If the MTv chooses War as one of his Domains, she gains proficiency with her deity’s favored weapon, be it simple, martial or exotic, as well as the Weapon Focus Feat for that Weapon.
Spells: MTv's are capable of casting both divine and arcane spells, though neither will be as powerful as those of a Wizard or Cleric of equal level. At first level, the MTv gains spells per level as both a Wizard and a Cleric, and every level thereafter she can choose to increase her spells per day as either a Cleric or a Wizard; and every 5 levels, (starting with 5th) the caster gains spells per day as both Cleric and Wizard. However, no matter how many spells per day the caster has in either divine or arcane magic, their (MTv) level is used to determine caster level for both Divine and Arcane magic. Intelligence modifier is used in relation to Arcane Spells, and Wisdom in relation to divine.
One downside to this is that the caster must take time at the beginning of each day to both study/memorize her arcane spells and pray for divine spells.
Familiar: At 3rd level, an MTv can summon a familiar in the same fashion that a wizard can.
Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: Identical to the Cleric, though this also applies to arcane magic.
Turn or Rebuke Undead: As Cleric, using the MTv level as their cleric level.
Bonus Languages: The MTv’s list of bonus languages includes Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Draconic, Ignan, Infernal, and Terran in addition to those available due to race.
Craft Single-Use Item: At 3rd level, the Mtv can create any one-
shot magic item (potion, scroll, talisman).
Bonus Feats: Every five levels, the MTv chooses a divine, item creation, or metamagic feat.
Base
Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Domains, Turn Undead As LVL 1 Wizard & Cleric
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Summon Familiar +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
11 +5 +3 +3 +7 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
Going Epic:
The (MTv) when reaching epic levels continues to gain spells as normal, except when spells per day reach 20th Cleric, no more spells per day are gained(as normal for an epic cleric) and when spells per day reach 20th Wizard, the (MTv) can gain 2 spells per day of any level, as is normal for an epic Wizard.
Epic Bonus Feat list is a combination of those for Cleric and Wizard.
Angcuru
04-15-03, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Iron_Chef
My changes would be:
HD: d4.
Lose the armor and shield proficiencies, but keep simple weapons.
Special Abilities:
Level 1 - Domains.
Level 2 - Summon Familiar.
Level 3 - Craft Single-Use Item (allows you to create potions, scrolls or other use once and throw away magic items, which replaces Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll and Craft Talisman IMC, it's in Green Ronin's Plot & Poison Drow book).
Level 5 - Turn Undead.
Level 10 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 15 Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 20 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
That sounds pretty good, actually, I don't know about the Craft Single-Use Item, but I think I'll just mess around with this a bit.
Tarrasque Wrangler
04-15-03, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Iron_Chef
Abbreviation: MTv
I want Iron Chef's . . . I want Iron Chef's MTv!
(all apologies to Dire Straits)
I'd been toying with my own MT-like core class long before Mystic Theurge came along. At the time, I considered it a sorcerer variant, playing off that little tidbit under the Sorcerer description that said they might have access to non-standard spells. Basically, it's spell progression was similar to the Bard's, and maxed out at 6 levels of spells. It allowed the PC to choose spells from the Sor/Wiz and Cleric spell lists, and cast as a sorcerer. You didn't get domains, but you got bonus feats at 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20th levels that could be spent on metamagic, item creation, or divine feats. You did get turning at 1st level, but it only went up every other level after that. So you ended up with better and more flexible feats than a wizard, simple weapons like a sorcerer, but your spells looked like a 12th/12th wiz/clr. I didn't think anyone would play it, and never introduced it.
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Angcuru
That sounds pretty good, actually, I don't know about the Craft Single-Use Item, but I think I'll just mess around with this a bit.
Feel free to change it to Scribe Scroll or any Item Creation feat, if you prefer.
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 10:48 PM
I changed my variant (above) as follows:
Level 1 - Domains, Turn Undead
Level 2 - Removed Summon Familiar
Level 3 - Changed to Summon Familiar
Level 5 - Changed to Bonus Feat
Otherwise, everyrthing is the same. Opinions?
Angcuru
04-16-03, 01:27 PM
looks like we've got this thing done.
I think It'd be better as:
1- Summon Familiar or Turn Undead
2- Summon Familiar or Turn Undead
3- Scribe Scroll
this is what I'm keeping it as, since it allows for flexibility In the early levels, without overpowering the class at low levels.
Gez
04-16-03, 01:52 PM
You should have put this here (http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=45).[/sblock]
[sblock]The Mystic Theurge - Ray Silver-style
Isida Kep'Tukari
04-05-03, 09:21 AM
Ok, this Prestige Class has garnered more attention than any I've seen, which means that it probably should be "fixed." After reviewing several alternate spell progressions and coming up with some ways to add some flavor to this class, I present to you my version of the Mystic Theurge. Comments are always appreciated!
Note: As I'm a big Forgotten Realms fan, I'm going to use Azuth, the Lord of Spells, for the particular church that the Theurge belongs to. Please feel free to substitute in the god of magic for your world wherever such references are made.
The Mystic Theurge - Ray Silver-style
The Mystic Theurge is living proof of the will of the Lord of Spells. Many have tried to combine the knowledge of the arcane with the blessings of the divine, but most have found they can only progress so far in each path, and that their divided attention limits their progress in both. The Mystic Theurge, through diligent study of both paths, and experimentation into the workings of magic, is able to progress much farther than any other.
Such great power comes at a price. Those who have given their lives up to magic of both divine and arcane are considered touched by Azuth. He pays special attention to them, as they are considered to be blessed by Him. Mystic Theurges are prone to debilitating visions directly from Azuth of tasks they must undertake for the Lord of Spells. No Theurge dares not act on these visions, for they find their magic slipping from their grasp if they hesitate.
Mystic Theurges are so steeped in magic that it begins to have a profound effect on their health and well-being. Their bodies become fueled by their magic, and casting too many spells too quickly can leave the Theurge exhausted, wounded, or both.
Most Mystic Theurges are wizard/clerics, as the more independent-minded sorcerers infrequently give themselves to the church as a priest.
Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become a mystic theurge, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks.
Feats: Skill Focus: Knowledge (arcana), Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion), any two metamagic feats.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level divine spells and 3rd-level arcane spells.
Class Skills
The mystic theurge's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Lvl...BAB...Fort...Ref...Will...Spells per Day
1st...+0....+0....+0....+2...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class, Visions of the Divine, Blood of the Arcane
2nd...+1...+0....+0....+3...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3rd...+1...+1....+1....+3...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
4th...+2...+1....+1....+4...+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
5th...+2...+1....+1....+4...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 6th...+3...+2....+2....+5...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7th...+3...+2....+2....+5...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
8th...+4...+2....+2....+6...+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
9th...+4...+3....+3....+6...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
10th..+5..+3....+3....+7...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
Class Features
All of the following are features of the mystic theurge prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mystic theurges gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new mystic theurge level is gained at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 10, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.
If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a mystic theurge, she must decide to which class she adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.
At levels 4 and 8, the mystic theurge only gains a level of divine casting, at and levels 2 and 6, she only gains a level of arcane casting. She does not gain any additional abilities from that class (increased chance of turning or familiar abilities, etc).
Visions of the Divine: The Mystic Theurge is subject to visions directly from Azuth. While the Theurge is steeped in magic, such direct thoughts from a god are overwhelming and usually painful. When a Theurge is struck by a vision, he is stunned for 1d4 rounds, then suffers a -2 to Dex and Str for 3d4 minutes. These visions are of tasks that the Theurge must complete or tell others so that they may be acted upon. The Theurge cannot induce a vision (though she could cast divination spells to help clarify a vision).
Failure to act upon a vision within an appropriate time frame will result in the Theurge losing access to her highest level spells in both her arcane and divine levels for one day. Examples of visions could be anything from bandits attacking a petitioner to the temple as he makes his way home (requiring the Theurge to act within hours), or that an enemy is about to cast a harmful spell at his comrades (requiring the Theurge to act within seconds).
The visions (and penalties) are up to the DM. A Theurge typically gets a vision at least every week, and often get nervous if they do not have one, seeing that as a sign that they did not accomplish their latest task to Azuth's satisfaction.
Blood of the Arcane: A Mystic Theurge's body is entirely soaked through with magical power. Their very health depends upon their magic. Loosing too much of it into the world at once can cause a Theurge to become tired, wounded, or worse. If a Theurge casts more than 5 spells (of any type) in a row, he must make a Fort save against DC 20 or be fatigued. Every five spells cast, he must make the same Fort save. If he is already fatigued, he becomes exhausted, if he is exhausted, he starts taking 2d4 damage for every failed role, or 1d4 on a made role.
Jeph
04-05-03, 05:18 PM
Looks pretty good, IMHO . . . Visions of the Divine could be a quite useful plot device. In Blood of the Arcane, what does it mean by "In a row"? In consecutive rounds, or without resting for a few hours, or without recharging spells, or what?
Isida Kep'Tukari
04-05-03, 09:04 PM
Consecutive rounds I think. Though I'm probably going to change that. I'm mostly just fiddling around with the Theurge to see what would work the best. If anyone else has ideas on how they'd change the Theurge, please post them.
Anabstercorian
04-06-03, 01:24 AM
To be honest, I think that the Mystic Theurge is very close to balanced as it is, so I'm not totally sure about this. I think you may have removed just a smidgen too much - Maybe add one more level of dual progression.
Jeph
04-06-03, 01:34 PM
Or maybe another neat (but not terribly powerful) ability?[/sblock]
I fear that thread may have been lost to the annals of time...
can't help you with the Wizard Specialist base classes however. I could recommend damion W's excellent Elemental Paladins, Barbarians, Ranger, and Monk classes. Other than that, no bones dude, sorry.
The Arcane Shaper
“Duvo, can you tell me what creature is held here in this cage?”
Duvo was unsure. During his six months at the school, Duvo had never enjoyed his studies as did his classmates. His natural talent with magic had been enough to fool his teachers.
“A goblin” Duvo asked more than stated.
“Incorrect! You have not been doing your studies Duvo!” scolded the teacher. “Had you studied, you would see this is a Kobold. Did you at least prepare the spells you were instructed to have ready for this lesson?” asked the frustrated instructor.
“Yes, sir” he lied.
“Than you should be capable of putting this kobold to sleep.”
“Of course I can!”
“Then do it.”
Duvo held out his hand and let himself sink into the trance that allowed him to see the Winds all around him, as he always did when commanded to perform such minor tricks. He imagined the sleeping kobold. He imagined the Winds bending to his will. He saw the Winds forming a ball, a ball filled with the desire for deep slumber, and finally he saw that ball flying towards the kobold.
When Duvo opened his eyes, the kobold was dead…
Duvo’s ball of magical energy wasn’t imaginary, nor was it filled with a desire for deep slumber. It was a bolt of pure arcane energy filled with naught but death and destruction.
The teacher approached the cage to see the cadaverous form of the kobold covered in blood. A small hole blasted clean through its torso.
“Come here, Duvo” he commanded softly.
Duvo approached cautiously, fearing punishment.
“You have a great gift, my boy.”
Duvo swelled with pride at his mentor’s approval, but his mood was doused quickly upon seeing the teacher's harsh expression.
“None must know of your gift, however. I dread they would misunderstand, and people fear that which they do not understand. You mustn’t tell a soul.”
He never did.
The Arcane Shaper
HTML Code:
Fort Ref Will Mana Level BAB Save Save Save Points Special 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 3 Arcane Bolts (D4), Arcane Shield 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 5 3 +1 +1 +1 +3 8 4 +2 +1 +1 +4 14 Arcane Bolts (D6), Arcane Enhancement 5 +2 +1 +1 +4 19 Bonus Feat 6 +3 +2 +2 +5 29 Arcane Flight 7 +3 +2 +2 +5 37 8 +4 +2 +2 +6 51 Arcane Bolts (Blast) 9 +4 +3 +3 +6 63 10 +5 +3 +3 +7 81 Bonus Feat 11 +5 +3 +3 +7 97 12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 115 Arcane Defense 13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 131 14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 149 15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 165 Bonus Feat 16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 183 17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 199 Arcane Absorption 18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 217 19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 233 20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 249 Bonus Feat, Arcane Storm
Spells Known
HTML Code:
Shaper Spells Known Lvl 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 4 2 - - - - - - - - 2 5 2 - - - - - - - - 3 5 3 - - - - - - - - 4 6 3 1 - - - - - - - 5 6 4 2 - - - - - - - 6 7 4 2 1 - - - - - - 7 7 5 3 2 - - - - - - 8 8 5 3 2 1 - - - - - 9 8 5 4 3 2 - - - - - 10 9 5 4 3 2 1 - - - - 11 9 5 5 4 3 2 - - - - 12 9 5 5 4 3 2 1 - - - 13 9 5 5 5 4 3 2 - - - 14 9 5 5 5 4 3 2 1 - - 15 9 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 - - 16 9 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 1 - 17 9 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 - 18 9 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 1 19 9 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 2 20 9 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 3
Bonus Mana
HTML Code:
Bonus Mana (by Maximum Spell Level) Score 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 12-13 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 14-15 1 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 16-17 1 4 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 18-19 1 4 9 16 16 16 16 16 16 20-21 2 5 10 17 26 26 26 26 26 22-23 2 8 13 20 29 40 40 40 40 24-25 2 8 18 25 34 45 58 58 58 26-27 2 8 18 32 41 52 65 80 80 ...You can figure out the patern from here. Unearthed Arcana pg. 154
Spell Cost
HTML Code:
Spell Level 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Mana Cost 0/1 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17
Shaper Spell List
0-Level Shaper Spells
Resistance
Ray of Frost
Daze
Dancing Lights
Flare
Light
Ghost Sound
Disrupt Undead
Mage Hand
Mending
Arcane Mark
Prestidigitation
Peppershot
Flame On
Wash
1st-Level Shaper Spells
Alarm
Endure Elements
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Shield
Grease
Obscuring Mist
Detect Undead
True Strike
Hypnotism
Sleep
Tenser’s Floating Disk
Color Spray
Nystul’s Magic Aura
Nystul’s Undetectable Aura
Silent Image
Ventriloquism
Cause Fear
Chill Touch
Ray of Enfeeblement
Animate Rope
Burning Hands
Enlarge
Expeditious Retreat
Feather Fall
Jump
Magic Weapon
Message
Reduce
Shocking Grasp
Spider Climb
Puff and Gone
Floater
Precise Vision
Swim
Ray of Clumsiness
Paste
Acidic Curse
2nd-Level Shaper Spells
Protection from Arrows
Resist Elements
Fog Cloud
Glitterdust
Melf’s Acid Arrow
Web
Detect Thoughts
Locate Object
See Invisibility
Tasha’s Hideous Laughter
Continual Flame
Darkness
Daylight
Flaming Sphere
Shatter
Blur
Hypnotic Pattern
Invisibility
Minor Image
Mirror Image
Ghoul Touch
Scare
Spectral Hand
Blindness/Deafness
Darkvision
Knock
Pyrotechnics
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Flaming Shield
Saltburst
Thief Ward
Killer Instinct
Mantle of Unassailable Flame
Spellslip
Icebolt
3rd-Level Shaper Spells
Dispel Magic
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
Protection from Elements
Flame Arrow
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Hold Person
Suggestion
Fireball
Gust of Wind
Lightning Bolt
Wind Wall
Displacement
Major Image
Gentle Repose
Halt Undead
Vampiric Touch
Blink
Gaseous Form
Greater Magic Weapon
Haste
Keen Edge
Slow
Water Breathing
Telekinesis
Bigby’s Interposing Hand
4th-Level Shaper Spells
Dimensional Anchor
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Evard’s Black Tentacles
Minor Creation
Solid Fog
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Lesser Geas
Fire Shield
Ice Storm
Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere
Shout
Wall of Fire
Wall of Ice
Hallucinatory Terrain
Illusory Wall
Improved Invisibility
Phantasmal Killer
Rainbow Pattern
Shadow Conjuration
Enervation
Fear
Dimension Door
Entropic Shield
Bigby’s Forceful Hand
5th-Level Shaper Spells
Dismissal
Cloudkill
Rary’s Telepathic Bond
Mind Fog
Cone of Cold
Sending
Wall of Force
Dream
Mirage Arcana
Shadow Evocation
Animate Dead
Fabricate
Stone Shape
Bigby’s Grasping Hand
Teleport
Permanency
Air Walk
Waterwalk
6th-Level Shaper Spells
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Greater Dispelling
Repulsion
Acid Fog
Planar Binding
Legend Lore
True Seeing
Bigby’s Clenched Fist
Chain Lightning
Contingency
Otiluke’s Freezing Sphere
Greater Shadow Evocation
Mislead
Shades
Circle of Death
Control Water
Control Weather
Disintegrate
Eyebite
Move Earth
Tenser’s Transformation
Negative Energy Protections
Magic Vestment
Lesser Restoration
7th-Level Shaper Spells
Banishment
Spell Turning
Drawmij’s Instant Summons
Phase Door
Vision
Bigby’s Crushing Hand
Delayed Blast Fireball
Forcecage
Mordenkainen’s Sword
Prismatic Spray
Shadow Walk
Simulacrum
Control Undead
Ethereal Jaunt
Reverse Gravity
Teleport without Error
Freedom of Movement
Call Lightning
8th-Level Shaper Spells
Mind Blank
Prismatic Wall
Incendiary Cloud
Discern Location
Demand
Otto’s Irresistible Dance
Otiluke’s Telekinetic Sphere
Sunburst
Horrid Wilting
Etherealness
Iron Body
Blade Barrier
Wind Walk
Restoration
9th-Level Shaper Spells
Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Prismatic Sphere
Gate
Foresight
Meteor Swarm
Weird
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Wail of the Banshee
Temporal Stasis
Regenerate
Arcane Feats
Improved Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements:Improved Shaping, Shaper level 5+, Concentration (7 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 5 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but may never be used during consecutive rounds.
Example: Duvo uses Arcane Shield on round 1 to increase his AC by 8 for 11 Mana. On round 2 he Maintains his bonus to AC for 4 Mana. On round 3 he may make a Concentration check (DC 16) to maintain Arcane Shield for free. On round 4 he must pay 4 Mana again to maintain his AC bonus. On round 5 he may make a Concentration check to ignore the maintaining cost again.
Greater Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements: Greater Shaping, Improved Maintenance, Shaper level 12+, Concentration (15 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 13 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but the character must still pay the normal maintenance cost at least once each minute its active.
Improved Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities, Wis 13+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were two levels higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability to use Arcane abilities.
Greater Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Shaping, Shaper level 9+, Wis 15+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were four levels higher that you are in the class that grants you the ability to use arcane abilities.
Summon Familiar [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain the ability to summon a familiar. This works just like the summon familiar ability of the sorcerer. For more information on the familiar see page 52 of the PHB.
Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Bolts ability
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts in melee to deliver touch attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. This may not be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast feature.
Improved Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +3
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts to ‘charge’ any weapon so that anything struck by the weapon is immediately struck by the Arcane Bolts. Charging the weapon requires a move-equivalent action. The amount of Mana that can be used to charge a weapon cannot be greater than your base attack bonus. This ability cannot be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast ability.
Greater Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: Charging your weapon with Arcane Bolts is now a swift action.
Arcane Attack [Arcane]
Requirements: Str 13+, Power Attack, base attack bonus +3
Benefit: If you pay 5 Mana per strike, you can resolve you melee attack with a weapon as a touch attack for the purpose of determining armor class. You must decide whether or not to pay the cost prior to making the attack. Your weapon remains charged for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod + 1 or until you attack with it. If the attack misses than the power is wasted.
Arcane Aptitude [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain +1 Mana
Special: A character may gain this feat multiple times each time gaining a number of Mana equal to the previous Arcane Aptitude +1.
Improved Arcane Flight [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Flight special ability
Benefit: Your maneuverability while using the Arcane Flight ability is increased to perfect and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Flight using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Shield [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Shield special ability
Benefit: Your arcane shield is charged with arcane energy. Anyone striking you in melee suffers 1d6 points of damage and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Shield using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Enhancement [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Enhancement special ability
Benefit: Any ability enhanced using the Arcane Enhancement gains an additional +2 magical bonus while the ability is active and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Enhancement using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Defense [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Defense special ability
Benefit: Your spell resistance gained through the use of this ability gains a +3 bonus and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Defense using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Energy Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Energy Substitution, ability to use Arcane Bolts
Benefit: Choose an energy type: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You may now choose to have your Arcane Bolts deal that type of damage instead of arcane damage.
Special: You may gain this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a different type of energy.
Adventures: Most Shapers adventure for two reasons: the first being the desire to improve their control over their uncanny abilites, and the second being that they are rarely totally accepted in organized society. Their friends and family may accept them for who they are, but others have trouble understanding their free-spirited ways. People fear what they don't understand and becuase of this fear Shapers are often loners. Good Shapers may try to prove that people have nothing to fear, while evil Shapers may prove that fear is well placed in trying to dominate people with their powers.
Characteristics: Shapers use magic in a much different way than Wizards. Their magic is intuuitive, natural, and inborn. Though it's true Shapers will not know as many spells as a Wizard, they tend to have the ability to cast more spells or use their innate Shaping abilites more often than Wizards do. Shapers learn their powers through practice, not study, so they don't have as much knowledge pertaining to the arcane arts like Wizards do. However, they are capable of practicing with weapons more often and because of that they are proficient with some simple weapons.
Alignment: Shapers are free spirited people. They are shunted from society and their skills derive from intuition rather than study. Shapers tend to favor chaos over law.
Religion: Boccob and Wee Jas are gods related to magic and so Shapers sometimes worship them if they choose to worship any god at all.
Backround: Most Shapers disover their powers by accident around the age of puberty. A young Shaper's abilities are untamed and often dangerous. If the Shaper is lucky, an older, more experienced Shaper will find him and help him control his power. Most Shapers, however are not so fortunate and must learn to control their abilities by themselves. Any group formed by Shapers will be loose at best, they gain little from sharing their knowledge with one another.
Races: Magic may chose any person, of any race to be a Shaper. It is most common in humans and elves and least common in dwarves.
Other Classes: Shapers get along with other arcane spellcasters, though wizards often misunderstand them. Other free-spirited people such as bards, rogues, rangers and druids get along with Shapers very well usually. The more diciplined classes such as paladin and monk are usually hesitant to work with Shapers.
Role: The Shapers role in a society or in a party is usually as a warrior. Though they are not well suited to front-line combat, they are capable to dealing a hefty amount of damage with their arcane abilites. Their role is also defined by what spells they know. With his high charisma, the Shaper may chose to use many spells that will aid him as a diplomat for example.
Game Rule Information
Abilities: Charisma determines a Shapers ability to cast spells, how powerful his spells are, and how much bonus Mana he obtains each level. Also a high Dexterity and Constitution will help the Shaper stay alive.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d4
Class Skills
The Shaper's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are:
Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Knowlegde Arcana (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shapers are proficient with all simple weapon. Shapers are not proficient with any armor or shield.
Spells: Shapers have learned to shape the Winds to recreate the effects of spells they have seen other spellcasters use. As such they can cast arcane and even a few divine spells. They are limited by how many spells they know. To cast a spell the Shaper must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The DC for a saving throw against a Shaper's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Shapers Charisma modifier. Every level the shaper learns one or more new spells as shown in Table: Shaper Spells Known. The shaper may only learn spells from the Shaper Spell List. Also, the shaper is not limited to a certain number of spells per day; instead they cast spells by using Mana. Spells that have a level dependent variable (damage dice, duration, etc.), Always count as being cast at the minimum caster level required to cast the spell. The Shaper may increase the spells effective caster level by paying 1 Mana per caster level increase. This may never increase the caster level above the Shapers class level or the maximum allowed for the spell. Mana can be fully restored with a full nights rest. Spell costs are noted above.
Bonus Feat: The shaper gains a bonus feat at levels 5, 10, 15, and 20. This feat may be a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or an arcane feat.
Shaping: Shapers have innate arcane abilities that are unique to their class. These abilities are powerful and useful in many ways, but also have their limitations. There are two types of Shaping actions: Shaping and Maintaining. Shaping is when a Shaper uses any of his class abilities that require Mana. Shaping can never be used in the same turn a Shaper wishes to cast a spell, however Maintaining can. Maintaining is when a Shaper pays an amount of Mana to keep a Shaping ability used during previous rounds in play. This means a Shaper can keep an Arcane effect in play as long as they have the Mana to Maintain it. Always round UP when determining the cost for maintaining. Maintaining is always a free action. Arcane Bolts and Arcane Storm cannot be maintained as they are instantaneous spell-like abilities. The amount of Mana a Shaper may use on Maintaining and to use Shaping abilities each round is limited to a number equal to his class level. The amount of Mana spent to cast spells has no limit, but you still may not Shape and Cast a spell in the same round, and you must still meet all the normal prerequisites for casting the spell(s). Example: A 7th level Shaper may maintain his +5 AC from before by spending 3 Mana, and would then have 4 Mana left to use on any other Shaping ability OR he may maintain his armor class and cast a spell. Arcane abilities are spell-like abilities.
Arcane Bolts: Beginning at Level 1 the Shaper has the innate ability to fling bolts of pure magical energy at a target as a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. Such an attack requires a ranged touch attack and has a range of 100 ft. +10 ft/lvl. If successful the target suffers 1D4/1 Mana spent. No saves are allowed, but spell resistance does apply. At level 4 this ability is upgraded in strength and now deals 1D6/1 Mana. And finally at level 8 this ability is upgraded again and may include a blast radius. For every 1 Mana spent in addition to the Mana spent determining the amount of damage the attack will do, it has 15 ft. added to its blast radius to a maximum of 75 ft. An attack roll of any kind is no longer needed, you simply taget a point in space at which the blast will originate from. All creatures in the blast radius now get a Reflex save for half damage. For example: Duvo uses 6 Mana to shape arcane bolts, plus an additional 2 Mana to include a blast. The attack will do 6D6 damage to all targets within 30 ft. of the blasts origin.
Arcane Shield: A Shaper may spend Mana to create a magical force field that covers and surrounds them. This ability can be used as an Immediate action and will increase the users AC by 1/1 Mana spent up to +5 AC. Increasing the protection beyond this requires more effort and further bonus' to AC will be at 1/2 Mana spent up to a maximum of +10 to AC. Protection above this is much more difficult to generate and the cost increases to 1/3 Mana spent. This is a magical bonus. Maintain at ½ AC Bonus.
Arcane Enhancement: Shapers are adept at defending themselves and that often means simply being stronger, faster, or tougher. Beginning at level 4 the shaper may increase their Str, Dex, and/or Con by 1/2 Mana spent as a Swift action. This is a magical bonus. Maintain at ½ cost.
Arcane Flight: Shapers a free roaming people that don’t like to be tied down by responsibilities, family, jobs, or even gravity! Beginning at level 6 they at last learn to defy gravity and fly. They fly with good maneuverability at double their speed for a cost of 4 Mana. Taking off is a free action. For every 4 Mana they spend beyond the first they may multiply their flying speed by one more. Example: A human shaper has a land speed of 30. He may fly for 4 Mana at a speed of 60 ft. or for 8 Mana he may fly at 90 ft. and for 12 Mana he can fly at 120 ft. and so on. Maintain at ¼ original cost.
Arcane Defense: As their understanding of the Winds of Magic continue to grow so do their abilities to control them. Starting at level 12 the Shaper can try to stop offensive spells directed at him as an Immediate action. He gains Spell Resistance of 10+1/2 Mana spent. Maintain at ½ original cost.
Arcane Absorption: Close to mastering his control of the Winds, a Shaper of this level has learned to absorb these universal energies into his own body and contain them therein. For a number of rounds per day equal to the Shapers level he may ready an action to absorb any spell that specifically targets him. Like counterspelling, when the enemy spellcaster casts his spell the Shaper must make a Spellcraft check to identify the spell. If this check is successful, the spell is absorbed. If the check is failed then the spell affects the Shaper as normal. When a Shaper absorbs a spell he gains an amount of Reserve Mana in his Reserve pool equal to the level of the spell absorbed. A Shapers reserve pool may contain an amount of Mana equal to double his Constitution score (CONx2).
Reserve Mana can be used in the following ways:
- It can be used as normal Mana.
- It may be spent on any Arcane ability above the normal limit based on class level.
- It can be spent to heal the Shaper at a rate of 2HP/1 Reserve Mana.
The amount of Reserve Mana stored in the reserve pool has numerous effects on the Shaper as follows:
- Once the amount of Reserve Mana has exceeded the Shaper’s CON score, he must make a Fort save each hour (DC 17) or lose all the Mana in an explosion. 1d6/1 Mana lost; 50 ft. blast centered on Shaper; Reflex (DC = amount of Mana lost) for half damage. The Shaper cannot save. If the Reserve pool is full (CONx2) this save must be made every minute. If the Shaper absorbs more Mana than his reserve pool can hold, he must make an immediate save (DC 17 + amount of Mana absorbed over max) or suffer the above affects; if the check succeeds the Shapers reserve pool is at max, not higher.
- The Shaper visibly shines and as such takes penalties on hide checks and bonus’ on Intimidate checks as follows:
----- Up to Con: Eyes glow; -10 Hide, +4 Intimidate, -4 Concentration
----- Con and over: Eyes glow brightly, body sheds light as a torch; -20 Hide, +8 Intimidate, -8 Concentration
----- Max (CONx2): Eyes glow brightly, body shines as Daylight spell; Hide impossible, +12 Intimidate, -12 Concentration
Arcane Storm: When a shaper reaches this level of control over the Winds, he can use them to such horrifyingly destructive ends such as the Arcane Storm. To use this ability the shaper must spend one round gathering all of the Winds around him into himself. On the following round he releases the blast. It flies towards a point he designates and explodes with tremendous force. This ability costs a minimum of 20 Mana and causes 5D6 +1d6/Mana points of damage over a 100 ft. radius blast! More damage may be added using Reserve Mana at +1d6/1 Reserve Mana spent. Reflex save for half damage. Afterwards, the shaper is fatigued until he can rest. Also, the shaper used all the Winds near him in the storm so there is a 50 ft. radius anti-magic field around the point where he shaped the storm in effect for 1D10 + 5 rounds.
So thats it. It's original at least.
I hope everyone can learn from what I've posted here and even improve on the idea!
Good luck and happy gaming to all!
__________________
My Current Project: The Arcane Shaper (Check it out!)
This Actually Happened in a Game
Cleric: I'll sneak up to the door.
DM: OK, you sneak towar.... wait, what are you wearing?
Cleric: Full plate...?
DM: Get out... no really, leave.
Cleric: Aww, c'mon. They might not hear me.
DM: Really? Well they just stabbed you... so I think they heard you.
Cleric: What!?
DM: 12 damage.
Cleric: Wait! WHAT!?
DM: OOO! This one scored a crit!..... And another 32 damage.
Cleric: GAH!!! I'm dead! Someone heal me!
Party: Thats your job, chief. Nobody cares about a cleric of Bane...
Cleric: But...
Party: Look, you've been corpsified, deal. Heres a fresh sheet.
Cleric: But I can't die, I had The Hand of Bane!
DM: Yeah, guess why you're dead...
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 04-10-06 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Major change to the class
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-17-06, 08:07 PM #2
Brother Richard
Registered User
Brother Richard's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2005
Last Seen: Today (03:54 AM)
Posts: 56
My Bookshelf
my Thoughts
I really like the shaper and it should replacethe sorceror, but the arcane bolt is over powered. At level 20, I can spend all my mana to do multi hundred d6 damage. Their should be cap on how much mana used equal to level.
Brother Richard is offline Reply With Quote
Brother Richard
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Brother Richard
Find More Posts by Brother Richard
Add Brother Richard to Your Buddy List
Add Brother Richard to your ignore list
Old 03-17-06, 08:22 PM #3
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Richard
I really like the shaper and it should replacethe sorceror, but the arcane bolt is over powered. At level 20, I can spend all my mana to do multi hundred d6 damage. Their should be cap on how much mana used equal to level.
Thank! I'm glad you like it, and as for the cap... there is... it's in bold text under the "Shaping" paragraph.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-18-06, 10:10 AM #4
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
I had this problem on the other boards...
I truely appreciate anyone that posts in this forum, I really do. All the advice I've gotten through the Internet has really helped this class along. But please people, read the main post very carefully before you comment.
The paragraph about "Shaping" is missed more often than it should be and it leads to alot of pointless posts.
All in all though, you're all incredibly helpful and I want to thank you very much!
Keep it up, I know you've all got plenty to say!
Good luck and happy gaming!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-18-06, 05:29 PM #5
DreamChaser
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Bellingham, WA, USA
Last Seen: 04-24-06 (08:26 PM)
Posts: 792
Send a message via ICQ to DreamChaser Send a message via Yahoo to DreamChaser
The Arcane Shield is too expensive, IMHO. Arcane bolt might be okay in cost but why would a shaper ever choose to use the Arcane Shield? At first level, that +1 is 1/3rd of his resources; by the time he can actually afford to get a +4, they are spending more than 1/4 of their daily resources for one round of protection. Sure it can be used as an immediate action but it just seems inefficient.
Just a thought...
DC
__________________
Please allow me to point out that no one (other than your DM perhaps) is forcing you to play it the way it is written in the books. Rule 0 exists for a reason. Healthy dialogue on a subject is one thing; frenzy about a rule you dislike is quite another.
Nerf, nerf, nerfity, nerf--the meaningless complaint of the uninspired!
DreamChaser is offline Reply With Quote
DreamChaser
View Public Profile
Send a private message to DreamChaser
Send email to DreamChaser
Visit DreamChaser's homepage!
Find More Posts by DreamChaser
Add DreamChaser to Your Buddy List
Add DreamChaser to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 02:25 PM #6
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamChaser
The Arcane Shield is too expensive, IMHO. Arcane bolt might be okay in cost but why would a shaper ever choose to use the Arcane Shield? At first level, that +1 is 1/3rd of his resources; by the time he can actually afford to get a +4, they are spending more than 1/4 of their daily resources for one round of protection. Sure it can be used as an immediate action but it just seems inefficient.
Just a thought...
DC
You bring up a good point, and it can easily be solved with the same answer I gave to a different question on a different board!
The Shaper DOES gain extra Mana at each level based on his CHA stat, just like a scion gains extra PP. I simply havn't added the chart for Extra Mana yet, but I will be adding it shortly. If you must see it, it is under the Spell Point variant system in Unearthed Arcana.
Keep reminding me of my mistakes people!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 06:20 PM #7
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I also think arcane shield isn't powerful enough. A shaper can spend 1 mana to cast shield which lasts for more than one round and provides a better AC bonus. Arcane protection should cost a little more for its protection but not the equivalent of a 2nd-3rd level spell. Also, to max the ability out it costs 24 mana. No shaper can do this ever so why bother placing the cap(except epic, but the progression is fine without a cap of its own)
__________________
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
[sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock][sblock]Scissors
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 07:31 PM #8
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_gathering2001
I also think arcane shield isn't powerful enough. A shaper can spend 1 mana to cast shield which lasts for more than one round and provides a better AC bonus. Arcane protection should cost a little more for its protection but not the equivalent of a 2nd-3rd level spell. Also, to max the ability out it costs 24 mana. No shaper can do this ever so why bother placing the cap(except epic, but the progression is fine without a cap of its own)
You must remember that shield may not last longer. Arcane Shield can be maintained indeffinitely. And with the highest maintaining cost being 5 Mana/round for +10 AC, it's not that bad. The ability used to simply be +1AC/1 Mana, this was too powerful in the higher levels. The new system gives you the same ability in the first few levels and then slows down the progression to keep it from becoming rediculous.
Maintaining can cost as much as mid level spells at higher levels, I did this intentionally because my idea behind the class was to be very powerful, but short lived. At level 20 a Shaper will have a very large amount of Mana. He can, if not careful, blow through all that mana in 6 or 7 rounds! If he were to set himself up with enough abilities and then try to maintain them, meanwhile casting high level spells, he could be spending 30 or more mana per round!
I changed Arcane Shield to the way it is now because I wanted it to be more easily maintained at higher levels. At all levels it will stack with shield, so even at low levels you'll be able give yourself a decent boost to AC. While at higher levels, Arcane Shield will be far mroe useful and yet easier to maintain. This ability is weak, but useful at low levels, and truely shines at higher levels. But I do believe you have a point, so I'm going to change it slightly to make the max just a bit higher.
Thanks for the input, keep it coming!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-19-06, 08:52 PM #9
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
So I've made some major updates including the Bonus Mana chart and the changes I promised to the arcane bolts and shield abilities.
Also, anyone who would like to be able to print this class out for use in your game, just drop me a PM with you're email in it and I'll send you the .word document as soon as I add all the updates to it!
Thanks for all the help! This class is about 95% done I'd say!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-20-06, 10:10 PM #10
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I still see a problem that I as a player would almost never use shield and not use arcane bolt between levels 5 and 11 (possibly higher) at level 5, third level spells become available that do the same amount of damage as the bolt but have areas, at level six they are more cost efficient. At level eleven the cap is in place for 3rd level spells but not other levels.
As compared to benifit the shield may not ever used at maximum output
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------2-----------2--------1 3---------3-----------3--------2 4---------4-----------4--------2 5---------5-----------5--------3 6---------5-----------6--------3 7---------6-----------7--------3 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------7-----------9--------4 10--------7-----------10-------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------8-----------12-------4 13--------9-----------13-------5 14--------9-----------14-------5 15--------10----------15-------5 16--------10----------16-------5 17--------10----------17-------5 18--------11----------18-------7 19--------11----------19-------7 20--------11----------20-------7
Maybe you could change it to a 1:1 until the bonus is half your level then 1AC:2mana
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------1-----------1--------1 3---------2-----------3--------1 4---------3-----------4--------1 5---------3-----------4--------1 6---------4-----------5--------2 7---------5-----------7--------2 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------6-----------8--------3 10--------7-----------9--------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------9-----------12-------5 13--------9-----------12-------5 14--------10----------13-------5 15--------11----------15-------6 16--------12----------16-------6 17--------12----------16-------6 18--------13----------17-------7 19--------14----------19-------7 20--------15----------20-------8
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-21-06, 11:50 AM #11
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by magic_gathering2001
I still see a problem that I as a player would almost never use shield and not use arcane bolt between levels 5 and 11 (possibly higher) at level 5, third level spells become available that do the same amount of damage as the bolt but have areas, at level six they are more cost efficient. At level eleven the cap is in place for 3rd level spells but not other levels.
As compared to benifit the shield may not ever used at maximum output
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------2-----------2--------1 3---------3-----------3--------2 4---------4-----------4--------2 5---------5-----------5--------3 6---------5-----------6--------3 7---------6-----------7--------3 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------7-----------9--------4 10--------7-----------10-------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------8-----------12-------4 13--------9-----------13-------5 14--------9-----------14-------5 15--------10----------15-------5 16--------10----------16-------5 17--------10----------17-------5 18--------11----------18-------7 19--------11----------19-------7 20--------11----------20-------7
Maybe you could change it to a 1:1 until the bonus is half your level then 1AC:2mana
Spoiler:
Code:
Level-----Maximum-----Mana-----to maintain 1---------1-----------1--------1 2---------1-----------1--------1 3---------2-----------3--------1 4---------3-----------4--------1 5---------3-----------4--------1 6---------4-----------5--------2 7---------5-----------7--------2 8---------6-----------8--------3 9---------6-----------8--------3 10--------7-----------9--------4 11--------8-----------11-------4 12--------9-----------12-------5 13--------9-----------12-------5 14--------10----------13-------5 15--------11----------15-------6 16--------12----------16-------6 17--------12----------16-------6 18--------13----------17-------7 19--------14----------19-------7 20--------15----------20-------8
Ok, just a few things here. First, you don't get level 3 spells until level 6, it's the same spell progression as a sorcerer. Those spells will be a little more cost effective during the middle levels, theres little I can do about that. They won't be that much more cost effective however, I must thank you for pointing out that I forgot to put this in, in the Spell Point variant system, spells that have level dependent variable (like fireball, lightning bolt) always count as being cast as the minimum caster level that the character can use them at (so level 6 for Shapers). To increase that variable, the caster must pay 1 additional Mana for each caster level increase. for example: magic missile cast by a level 1 sorcerer costs 1 SP and does 1d4+1 dmg. That same caster at level 9 could cast magic missile using 1 SP, but it would still only do 1d4+1. To make it do 5d4+5 (MMs max) he would have to pay 9 SP. Or a fireball (5 SP cost) only does 6d6 for 5 mana. To make it do 10d6 (fireballs max) it would cost 9 mana. I have to add this into the "Spells" section above.
So fireball and lightning bolt will be a slightly better choice from levels 6-10, and I can't really think of a way to fix that without making Arcane Bolts broken in the long run. I've considered making Arcane Bolts a swift action, but I don't really like the idea of a high level shaper being able to fling 20d6 damage each round and still make a normal move and standard action. Perhaps they can use it as a swift action only a few times a day? Give me some feedback.
As for the Arcane Shield, you made a minor error in your first chart, the maintaining cost from levels 18-20 would be 6 not 7. Other than that, I like your idea. There are a few things to point out though. First, its a magical bonus, not an armor, shield, enhancement, etc. Magical is not a normal bonus and it's not a type given by the types of magical protection that this type of character would end up wearing (Ring of Prot., Bracers of Arm., Amulet of NA, etc.) so at the higher levels, it's a little costly, but it's gonna stack with everything else you have. Shield is also still on the spell list, and that spell is pretty useful at all levels. So at higher levels I didn't want the character to be able to add too much to there AC, at least not very easily. When combined with other pieces of equipment and spells, this ability will allow the Shaper to get their AC well into the 30's or maybe higher. Just for an example:
Bracers +4
Amulet +4
Ring +4
Shield Spell +4
Haste +1
Arcane Shield +11
AC:38
Thats with just +4 wonderous items, bracers can be as much as +8 and the others +5 (those differences alone would put his AC at 44!), then the possibility of feats like Dodge, and higher level spells that add to AC... this ability might be a little too powerful as it is!
Well anyway, thank you for all the comments, you got me thinking some more!
Keep it coming! I really appreciate it!
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-21-06 at 11:54 AM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-21-06, 09:03 PM #12
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
If the arcanist spends 6 on his shield every round (the equivalent of a third level spell) then he should get around 11 AC. Swift true strike is a 2nd or 3rd level spell that only works for one attack but provides twice the bonus. As for the high AC issue, many classes can get their AC into the sixties (80s with improved combat expertise) if they try hard(mnk 2 samurai 4 iaijitsu master 7 deulist 7 can easily).
You could make it an enhancement bonus so it wouldn't stack with magic armor or shields(have it replace one) if your really worried about it.
As for arcane bolt, maybe you could let him cast it for a small amount of mana then charge it? Maybe it does 1d6 per 2 mana spent to start but you can charge the bolt to increase its damage by 1d6 as a standard action or 2d6 as a full round action up to a maximum of 1.5 times your caster level(releasing it would be an attack action.) Or maybe it has a maximum duration of one round per two mana also so at 20th level that'd be 28d6 if they spent 20 rounds charging(would make for interesting mage duels)
alternatively you could let them apply metamagic feats to the activation cost(quicken for 8 mana, maximized for 6 etc.)
or you could let them use any one of their abilities as a swift action once per day per four levels or something
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-22-06, 04:31 PM #13
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
As for the high AC issue, many classes can get their AC into the sixties (80s with improved combat expertise) if they try hard(mnk 2 samurai 4 iaijitsu master 7 deulist 7 can easily).
I don't allow players to do that kind of rediculous multi-classing. They can if they want to, but XP penalties galore, they will soon ask that I kill their character so they can make one with only 1 or 2 classes.
As for the cost of the abilities, I really can't justify making them more complicated than they are. If players need calculators at the table, this is too complicated. I'm not saying I don't understand what your saying, I'm just stating that this would slow the game down alot and make it alot less fun for everyone other than the Shaper. But I do like the idea of adding metamagic to the Arcane abilities.
One thing I have been worrying about however, you made a very good point. The maintaining costs of some of these abilities are equivalent to 3-5th level spells, spells that are similar to spells that would have a duration. So why should they have to spend enough mana for a 3rd level spell every round? Perhaps they should only have to pay the maintaining cost every few rounds? Or maybe the effect will last for a certain number of rounds before they have to start maintaining it? perhaps a diminishing maintain cost, 6 mana to maintain the second round, 5 on the 3rd, 4 on the 4th, etc.? Or the opposite, 1 Mana to maintain the 2nd round, 2 the 3rd, 3 on the 4th, etc.? Give me some feedback on this. I could really use some help.
I greatly appreciate everyones input, if you can think of a way to increase the efficiency of any of the arcane abilities that doesn't require alot of math or a calculator.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-22-06, 09:02 PM #14
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Maybe shield could have a duration equal to its mana cost (the higher activation cost and no maintainning cost) or 1/2 its mana cost or AC bonus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas_Desmond
I don't allow players to do that kind of rediculous multi-classing. They can if they want to, but XP penalties galore, they will soon ask that I kill their character so they can make one with only 1 or 2 classes.
It was an extreme example, monk 5/samurai 5/iaijitsu master 10 could also get a high AC with no multiclassing penalties as a human or most duelists and monks and iaijitsu masters..
You could make arcane bolt a standard action to cast and bestow the ability to make ranged touch attacks that do 1/4 mana spentdamage and lasts for 1/4 mana spent rounds.
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-23-06, 02:51 PM #15
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Some good ideas, I've gotta run for now. I'll ponder this over the next few days. I might not be able to post for a couple of days (hopefully I can) so keep sending me ideas, I will get them and give some feedback ASAP.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-23-06, 08:47 PM #16
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Ok I am gonna be able to post here again today!
I came up with an idea for absorption based on the Spellfire Wielder class from 2e. I had already been inspired by that class before, but now it came in handy again! Please give me some honest and helpful feedback on this idea:
Quote:
A Shaper may ready an action to absorb magic that secifically targets him. For every spell level absorbed, the Shaper gains 1 Mana in a "Reserve Pool." This reserve pool may contain an amount equal to the Shaper's Constitution score x2. Once the amount of Mana exceeds the Shaper's CON however, he must make a fort save every (round/minute/hour?) or lose all the magic energy he has stored in a violent eruption (1d6/mana lost; 40 ft. blast; reflex for half for everyone but the shaper, he can't dodge himself exploding ). Mana stored in the reserve pool is lost during rest. Mana in the reserve pool may be used in a few ways:
-It may be used on any Arcane ability ignoring the normal limit based on class level.
-It may be used to heal the Shaper at a rate of 2HP/1 Reserve Mana
-It can be used like normal Mana.
I'm out of ideas as to what else this "Special" Mana should be able to do. Give me some ideas as to what else it might be able to do!
Also, what level should the Shaper gain this ability? I was thing somewhere around 8ish give or take a couple levels. Let me know what you think!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-24-06, 09:46 AM #17
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Finally added a bit of fluff to the OP. It's a small excerpt from a short story I'm writting about a Shaper, it's not the best part, but it's the best part I can give for now. More fluff will be added with time!
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-24-06, 10:59 PM #18
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I always thought the excess mana should go off like a staff of wonder personally.
As for uses for the mana...
the shaper can use this mana as if he had the benifit of the improved counterspell feat(some kind of extra mana cost would be necessary like +3 maybe)
the shaper can use this mana(and only this mana) to add a metamagic feat to his arcane abilities for as much mana as it would cost to cast a spell of the level increase twice
the shaper could have spell resistance equal to the amount of mana in this pool (replacing the current ability)
the shaper could do without sustanence for a day for one of this mana(kind of random though)
the shaper could use this mana to cast a spell he doesn't know for twice its mana cost.
Pick and choose, some of the abilities have more power or flavor than others.
By the way this inspired me to write a blueish mage class. Do you want me to post it here to see if you get any ideas?
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-25-06, 06:13 PM #19
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
What level....?
Ok my current problem with the absorption ability is what level it should become available at. The closest thing in the game we can compare it to is the spell Absorption. It is a 9th level spell, so it would be available at level 18 (17 for wizards though, and I'm going to go from 17 for this).
First, how is it better than Absorption:
+More Mana can be absorbed (about 20-30 for most characters)
+More uses for that Mana (including arcane healing)
+Latent ability thats always active (should it be though?)
+Casting 'into yourself' could supply you with some of this amazaing all-purpose Mana
Now, how is it worse than Absorption:
-Must ready an action to absorb
-You could explode from absorbing too much
Did I forget anything? So... based on what we see here this ability should be Epic! So I propose a better idea thats slightly more balanced:
-Can only be used a number of rounds per day equal to class level (maybe half that?)
-Still have to ready the action; if you don't get hit with a spell, it's wasted
-Maybe a smaller amount of mana can be absorbed*
-Maybe a Spellcraft check to identify the incoming spell so they will know how to absorb it
*Maybe something like Con + Con modifier; fort or explode once you exceed your Con score.
Just a few other points: I don't think this should be available to anyone other than characters at least mostly dedicated to the class, so it will not be lower than level 11. Imagine the horrible possibility of other classes multi-classed with this one so they can ABSORB magic... *shiver*. So my current plan is to drop the Arcane Defense ability to level 9 (same level a cleric would get the Spell Resistance Spell) and put the absorption ability there. But I'm still a little concerned that it's A) Too powerful. Period. and B) Too powerful for level 12 at least...
Thanks for the ideas for uses too. I think I'm gonna add the ability to use metamagic feats with it (cast a spell using only reserve mana to add 1 metamagic feat for free) and some sort of improved counterspell using it. Oh and please put a link here to your own class, I would love to see it!
Give me some feedback people! I appreciate it!
Later,
Des
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-25-06 at 06:16 PM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-25-06, 10:16 PM #20
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
I could see it as the level 20 ability (something this class lacks), before there was epic all classes had a really cool 20th level ability (oh wait nevermind thats just me imagining things)
maybe you could put it at 17th level and have arcane storm cost at least one of this mana
other thoughts for limitations:
dissipates naturally at a rate of one per round
penalty on concentration checks equal to the number of mana stored
penalty on hide checks or an obviously visual effect
always has subdual damage equal to the amount of mana stored (dissipates when mana does)
limited uses of absorb per day(i don't like this one)
can only absorb spells you pass the save against (in addition to the current requirements)
requires a concentration check opposed by a caster level check(combined with the penalty on con checks is nice)
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-25-06, 11:14 PM #21
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Warning never been playtested or thought about overly
Mage Deulist
Code:
Level BAB F/R/W Special Spell Casting 1 0 0/0/2 Absorb Spell, Arcane Bolt +1 level of previous spellcasting class 2 1 0/0/3 3 1 1/1/3 Arcane Shield 4 2 1/1/4 Spell Resistance 5+level +1 level of previous spellcasting class 5 2 1/1/4 6 3 2/2/5 Evasion, Mettle 7 3 2/2/5 +1 level of previous spellcasting class 8 4 2/2/6 Spell Resistance 10+level*2 9 4 3/3/6 10 5 3/3/7 Energy Release +1 level of previous spellcasting class
Absorb Spell:
When a mage duelist is the sole target of a spell or spell like ability, he may use an attack of opportunity to attmpt to absorb that spell. To absorb a spell he must pass his save against the spell, and succede on a spellcraft and concentration check versus a DC of 10+two times the spells level. If he absorbs the spell he adds one mana per spell level to his mana pool and suffers all the normal effects of the spell. A Mage duelist may have a number of mana in his pool equal to his class level + his wisdom and constitution modifiers + 5. If he excedes this limit at the beginning of his turn, 1d6 mana escapes and forms a random magical effect (like activating a rod of wonder).
Arcane Bolt:
A mage duelist may release stored mana in the form of a searing bolt. The bolt is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d6 damage for every mana expended. The target of the bolt can attempt a reflex save for half damage. This damage is arcane damage and reduced by spell resistance (like fire damage is reduced by fire resistance)
Arcane Shield:
A mage duelist may release stored mana by enwrapping himself with it. This provides a deflection bonus to AC equal to the number of mana spent. He can only spend one mana per mage duelist level in this manner.
Spell Resistance:
A mage duelist gains SR equal to this value. He is considered to have passed his save against spells that fail to overcome his SR for the purpose of spell absorbtion.
Energy Release:
A mage duelist can spend a full round action, expend all of his mana in an explosion. The explosion has a radius of 5ft for every five mana expended this way. The blast deals 1d6 damage for every mana spent. Creatures within five feat of the edge of the blast can make a reflex save (DC 10+mage duelist level+WIS modifier) for half damage and anyone can attempt a fortitude save for 1/4 damage. This damage is arcane damage so spell resistance lowers it.
Last edited by magic_gathering2001 : 03-27-06 at 08:10 PM.
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-26-06, 04:46 PM #22
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Thanks for the feedback magic. I'm going to incorperate of few of the penalties you suggested into the absorption ability, and I think arcane storm will work off of some reserve mana as well. I'll post the finished absorption ability sometime today.
I like your PrC, but I have a few questions about it.
Firstly: what would the prerequisites for ths class be?
Quote:
he may use an attack of opportunity to attmpt to absorb that spell.
I like this idea, it will make combat reflexes a good feat choice. But I also think it unbalances the ability a little. Without having to ready an action to absorb and with combat reflexes, they could pretty much absorb anything that comes at them.
Quote:
Arcane Bolt:
A mage duelist may release stored mana in the form of a searing bolt. The bolt is a ranged touch attack that deals 1d6 damage for every mana expended. The target of the bolt can attempt a reflex save for half damage.
Why the reflex save? I felt this should work much like a magic missle: no save but spell resistance still applies. And that leads me to this:
Quote:
This damage is arcane damage and reduced by spell resistance (like fire damage is reduced by fire resistance)
What? Why are you changing the way spell resistance works? My best guess is that you don't know how SR normally works. When targetting a person or thing that has spell resistance you must make a caster level check: 1d20 + caster level. If the result is equal to or higher than the the targets SR, the spell takes effect normally, if it is lower than the targets SR the spell has no effect whatsoever. DMG 298. And that brings me to my next point: SR 30 at level 8? Thats a little high for pre-epic, at most I would give 25. Compare to armor of SR (SR 19 is a +5 bonus) or a wonderous item (Mantle of Spell Resistance give SR 21 and is a major WI costing 90,000 GP). And SR doesn't stack so it's ok to go a little higher than those example, but I wouldn't go much higher.
All in all I really like the idea behind this class, though if you wait for me to opst all the feats I've created for the Shaper in the next day or so, you may like what you see
Thanks for all the input, keep up the good work!
Later,
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-26-06, 05:57 PM #23
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Major Changes To The Shaper!!
Major!
Many of the above abilities have shifted up or down on the level scale and have new descriptions! The Arcane Absorption ability is done and included in the original post! Many of the other abilities have been updated as well. I'll put the absorption ability in this post so you can nitpick it directly from here, let me know what you think of it!
Quote:
Arcane Absorption: Close to mastering his control of the Winds, a Shaper of this level has learned to absorb these universal energies into his own body and contain them therein. For a number of rounds per day equal to the Shapers level he may ready an action to absorb any spell that specifically targets him. Like counterspelling, when the enemy spellcaster casts his spell the Shaper must make a Spellcraft check to identify the spell. If this check is successful, the spell is absorbed. If the check is failed then the spell affects the Shaper as normal. When a Shaper absorbs a spell he gains an amount of Reserve Mana in his Reserve pool equal to the level of the spell absorbed. A Shapers reserve pool may contain an amount of Mana equal to double his Constitution score (CONx2).
Reserve Mana can be used in the following ways:
- It can be used as normal Mana.
- It may be spent on any Arcane ability above the normal limit based on class level.
- It can be spent to heal the Shaper at a rate of 2HP/1 Reserve Mana.
The amount of Reserve Mana stored in the reserve pool has numerous effects on the Shaper as follows:
- Once the amount of Reserve Mana has exceeded the Shaper’s CON score, he must make a Fort save each hour (DC 17) or lose all the Mana in an explosion. 1d6/1 Mana lost; 50 ft. blast centered on Shaper; Reflex (DC = amount of Mana lost) for half damage. The Shaper cannot save. If the Reserve pool is full (CONx2) this save must be made every minute. If the Shaper absorbs more Mana than his reserve pool can hold, he must make an immediate save (DC 17 + amount of Mana absorbed over max) or suffer the above affects; if the check succeeds the Shapers reserve pool is at max, not higher.
- The Shaper visibly shines and as such takes penalties on hide checks and bonus’ on Intimidate checks as follows:
----- Up to Con: Eyes glow; -10 Hide, +4 Intimidate, -4 Concentration
----- Con and over: Eyes glow brightly, body sheds light as a torch; -20 Hide, +8 Intimidate, -8 Concentration
----- Max (CONx2): Eyes glow brightly, body shines as Daylight spell; Hide impossible, +12 Intimidate, -12 Concentration
Now thats done I'm gonna go work on the feats related to this class! I'll try to have them up later today if possible, but I wouldn't expect them until tomarrow.
Later,
Des
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-26-06 at 09:29 PM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-26-06, 10:34 PM #24
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
So I had a lot more time to work on this today than I thought I would. So heres the feats I came up with:
Arcane Feats
Improved Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements:Improved Shaping, Shaper level 5+, Concentration (7 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 5 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but may never be used during consecutive rounds.
Example: Duvo uses Arcane Shield on round 1 to increase his AC by 8 for 11 Mana. On round 2 he Maintains his bonus to AC for 4 Mana. On round 3 he may make a Concentration check (DC 16) to maintain Arcane Shield for free. On round 4 he must pay 4 Mana again to maintain his AC bonus. On round 5 he may make a Concentration check to ignore the maintaining cost again.
Greater Maintenance [Arcane]
Requirements: Greater Shaping, Improved Maintenance, Shaper level 12+, Concentration (15 ranks)
Benefit: While maintaining any arcane ability, the character may reduce the maintaining cost of one arcane ability to 0 for one round with a successful Concentration check (DC 13 + original Mana cost of the ability). This ability may be used an unlimited number of times per day, but the character must still pay the normal maintenance cost at least once each minute its active.
Improved Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities, Wis 13+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were two levels higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability to use Arcane abilities.
Greater Shaping [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Shaping, Shaper level 9+, Wis 15+
Benefit: You use Arcane abilities as if you were four levels higher that you are in the class that grants you the ability to use arcane abilities.
Summon Familiar [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain the ability to summon a familiar. This works just like the summon familiar ability of the sorcerer. For more information on the familiar see page 52 of the PHB.
Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Bolts ability
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts in melee to deliver touch attacks without provoking attacks of opportunity. This may not be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast feature.
Improved Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +3
Benefit: You can use your Arcane Bolts to ‘charge’ any weapon so that anything struck by the weapon is immediately struck by the Arcane Bolts. Charging the weapon requires a move-equivalent action. The amount of Mana that can be used to charge a weapon cannot be greater than your base attack bonus. This ability cannot be combined with the Arcane Bolts Blast ability.
Greater Melee Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Improved Melee Bolts, Base Attack Bonus +6
Benefit: Charging your weapon with Arcane Bolts is now a swift action.
Arcane Attack [Arcane]
Requirements: Str 13+, Power Attack, base attack bonus +3
Benefit: If you pay 5 Mana per strike, you can resolve you melee attack with a weapon as a touch attack for the purpose of determining armor class. You must decide whether or not to pay the cost prior to making the attack. Your weapon remains charged for a number of rounds equal to your Cha mod + 1 or until you attack with it. If the attack misses than the power is wasted.
Arcane Aptitude [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use Arcane abilities
Benefit: You gain +1 Mana
Special: A character may gain this feat multiple times each time gaining a number of Mana equal to the previous Arcane Aptitude +1.
Improved Arcane Flight [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Flight special ability
Benefit: Your maneuverability while using the Arcane Flight ability is increased to perfect and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Flight using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Shield [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Shield special ability
Benefit: Your arcane shield is charged with arcane energy. Anyone striking you in melee suffers 1d6 points of damage and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Shield using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Enhancement [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Enhancement special ability
Benefit: Any ability enhanced using the Arcane Enhancement gains an additional +2 magical bonus while the ability is active and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Enhancement using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Improved Arcane Defense [Arcane]
Requirements: Ability to use the Arcane Defense special ability
Benefit: Your spell resistance gained through the use of this ability gains a +3 bonus and your concentration checks to reduce the maintenance cost of Arcane Defense using the Improved or Greater Maintenance feats are at +4.
Energy Bolts [Arcane]
Requirements: Energy Substitution, ability to use Arcane Bolts
Benefit: Choose an energy type: acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic. You may now choose to have your Arcane Bolts deal that type of damage instead of arcane damage.
Special: You may gain this feat multiple times, each time it applies to a different type of energy.
Let me know what you think of them!
Later,
Des
Last edited by Lucan_Desmond : 03-27-06 at 05:57 PM.
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-27-06, 08:36 PM #25
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Quote:
What? Why are you changing the way spell resistance works? My best guess is that you don't know how SR normally works. When targetting a person or thing that has spell resistance you must make a caster level check: 1d20 + caster level. If the result is equal to or higher than the the targets SR, the spell takes effect normally, if it is lower than the targets SR the spell has no effect whatsoever. DMG 298. And that brings me to my next point: SR 30 at level 8? Thats a little high for pre-epic, at most I would give 25. Compare to armor of SR (SR 19 is a +5 bonus) or a wonderous item (Mantle of Spell Resistance give SR 21 and is a major WI costing 90,000 GP). And SR doesn't stack so it's ok to go a little higher than those example, but I wouldn't go much higher.
No I know how it works, I just don't like the absoluteness of it. This changes it into a moderated thing for this ability only. Oh and i changed the SR, though its not high enogh to matter until level 8
Quote:
I like this idea, it will make combat reflexes a good feat choice. But I also think it unbalances the ability a little. Without having to ready an action to absorb and with combat reflexes, they could pretty much absorb anything that comes at them.
How many mages cast more than one spell per round? Still maybe I should make it like opportunist... Anyway even if you try to absorb a spell you have to pass a save, pass a skill check and even then you still take the effects. Absorb spell just fuels you in addition
Quote:
Why the reflex save? I felt this should work much like a magic missle: no save but spell resistance still applies. And that leads me to this:
Yeah you're right
What do you think about an ability that lets them become the target of a spell targeting someone else, how would that work mechanically
Quote:
----- Up to Con: Eyes glow; -10 Hide, +4 Intimidate, -4 Concentration
----- Con and over: Eyes glow brightly, body sheds light as a torch; -20 Hide, +8 Intimidate, -8 Concentration
----- Max (CONx2): Eyes glow brightly, body shines as Daylight spell; Hide impossible, +12 Intimidate, -12 Concentration
I would have the hide penalty goe -1 per mana and then impossible
concentration and intimidate go half of that.
As for the arcane feats, you may want to either take ability to use arcane abilities or shaper level requirements out of the prerequisites (redundancy)
I can't find arcane bolts blast so if it's there im missing something...
Last edited by magic_gathering2001 : 03-27-06 at 08:43 PM.
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-27-06, 09:26 PM #26
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Ok I'm gonna do this in 2 seperate posts, one about your PrC and one about the Shaper.
Quote:
No I know how it works, I just don't like the absoluteness of it. This changes it into a moderated thing for this ability only. Oh and i changed the SR, though its not high enogh to matter until level 8
Ok, I just wanted to make sure you knew. I like the way it would work I would just change the name to something that isn't already used in the game. Maybe Arcane Resistance or something like that.
Quote:
How many mages cast more than one spell per round? Still maybe I should make it like opportunist... Anyway even if you try to absorb a spell you have to pass a save, pass a skill check and even then you still take the effects. Absorb spell just fuels you in addition
I was more reffering to multiple casters targetting him at once. But with all the requirements behind absorbing a spell plus the fact that it still effects you I guess there really isn't anything wrong with the ability.
Quote:
What do you think about an ability that lets them become the target of a spell targeting someone else, how would that work mechanically
I like it! Reminds me of the "Cover" ability from Final Fantasy games. I think they would have to at least be close to the original target (say, within 10 ft.) Then make a check of some sort to draw the magic to them (Maybe Spellcraft, Concentration, Caster level, or any combination of the three).
I like the idea behind the class. My biggest suggestion to you would be to find abilities that exist in the game already that are similar to what you want, and use them as a sort of 'mold' to create your new abilities.
Keep it up!
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-27-06, 09:35 PM #27
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Now to address the points on the Shaper.
Quote:
I would have the hide penalty goe -1 per mana and then impossible
concentration and intimidate go half of that.
I thought about that too, but most skill modifiers in the game are constant. I like the idea of a simple, constant modifier more than a modifier that keeps changing and confusing you.
Quote:
As for the arcane feats, you may want to either take ability to use arcane abilities or shaper level requirements out of the prerequisites (redundancy)
I guess so. I just left it in there so it was clearly defined that you had to be a Shaper to take the feats. I know it's redundant, but it's there to get the point across clearly.
Clearly.
Clearly.
Clearly.
Sorry to repeat myself, but it helps you remember.
Quote:
I can't find arcane bolts blast so if it's there im missing something...
It's the upgrade the Arcane Bolts ability gets at level 8. The description is under the "Arcane Bolts" heading.
I think the feats really help fix some of the major problems with the class, especially the Shaping and Maintenance feats, they make the arcane abilities much more cost effective. I never really thought about it before, but without those feats they were wasting enough mana for 3rd-5th level spells every round for affects that weren't as good as a 3rd or 4th level spell. Now they get a better return for their Mana.
Well thats all I've got for now, I think this class will be totally complete very soon.
Everybody! Please send me some feedback!
Thanks!
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 12:56 AM #28
magic_gathering2001
Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Last Seen: Today (01:55 AM)
Posts: 583
My Bookshelf
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucan_Desmond
It's the upgrade the Arcane Bolts ability gets at level 8.
OK then it looks good.
What do you think about this feat:
Needs a Name (maybe arcane combat?)
Prerequisites:
Arcane Absorbtion, melee bolts?, improved melee bolts?, greater melee bolts?
Benefit:
If you use reserve mana to fuel your arcane bolts, the effects is recast for the next 1 attack per special mana spent. You can not combine this ability with arcane blast or the improved or greater melee bolts feat you have
Normal:
The effect lasts for one round in which you may make one standard atack
magic_gathering2001 is offline Reply With Quote
magic_gathering2001
View Public Profile
Send a private message to magic_gathering2001
Find More Posts by magic_gathering2001
Add magic_gathering2001 to Your Buddy List
Add magic_gathering2001 to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 04:22 AM #29
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Hmmm, wow. This is a lot for me to come upon and I've come upon it so very late in the discussion. What a pity. Either way, I really like it. It's quite good. There are only a few things that leave a sour aftertaste in my mouth. First, Arcane Absorption. It seems to be too easy. First off, the HP healing is way too good. You should either make it temporary hit points (you could even do 3:1 ratio) or a 1:1 ratio of real hit points. I would also consider forcing your shaper to spend all of his reserve magic at one go, so that even if he spends it on a first level spell, it all goes away at once. That makes it much more reasonable, in my opinion. As it is, that one ability could almost be a class-defining ability (though don't get me wrong, it couldn't stand alone).
Ummm, your feats. Cool. Great. Greater maintenence is too good. Other than that, they all seem fine (that's your choice on power-balance anyway). Oh wait. Arcane aptitude isn't good enough. I would replace that with one that increased your maximum shaping mana (probably by 2 for every time your toook the feat, can be taken multiple times). If you still wanted it to give mana, you could have it give mana equal to Cha Mod.
Arcane enhancement needs to not be (and/or). You should really limit them to one type at a time. I mean Jeeze. This isn't Naruto. Muscles don't work like that with adrenaline (and basically, you're giving them the ability to use mana as adrenaline).
I like bolts. I like shield. I like flight. I like defense.
Okay, my only suggestions for storm are these. Shaper loses 1/3 of remaining mana (min 1), which is automatically spent toward a damage increase. Shaper's anti-magic field is equal to 20 feet + 10 for every 20 mana he uses. These keep him from dropping it in a low level area, by sapping not only his physical self (after all, could he not simply *fix* the fatigue with arcane enhancement?), but also his maximum power for that day. After all, it's pretty horrific. Also, mana spent toward damage would have to supercede his maximum shaping mana in one turn.
Is it all right if I take this once you're done with it for my campaigns?
__________________
"Times change. There are times when one must be prepared to do anything in order to survive."
-Gyoro, Ururun
I need help on the following:
Spoiler:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=160137
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 06:03 AM #30
Jack Simth
Registered User
Jack Simth's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2005
Last Seen: Today (06:29 AM)
Posts: 1,422
Okay, I have a question:
Why would anyone take the Energy Bolts feat?
Arcane damage is basically untyped energy damage already; pretty much nothing will be immune or resistant to it (except for SR/Magic Immunity scenarios, which are not listed as being changed by the Energy Bolts feat), so adding a type to the damage doesn't bypass an energy immunity any better.
Okay, occasionally, Energy Bolts(Fire) will be useful, such as when facing something with Fire vulnerability (which happens, but isn't particularly common).
__________________
By the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.
Jack Simth is offline Reply With Quote
Jack Simth
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Jack Simth
Find More Posts by Jack Simth
Add Jack Simth to Your Buddy List
Add Jack Simth to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 06:46 AM #31
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Yeah, fire is the only element that one would ever need, except perhaps cold for chilling one's vodka.
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 03-29-06, 02:19 PM #32
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Hmmm, wow. This is a lot for me to come upon and I've come upon it so very late in the discussion. What a pity. Either way, I really like it. It's quite good. There are only a few things that leave a sour aftertaste in my mouth. First, Arcane Absorption. It seems to be too easy. First off, the HP healing is way too good. You should either make it temporary hit points (you could even do 3:1 ratio) or a 1:1 ratio of real hit points. I would also consider forcing your shaper to spend all of his reserve magic at one go, so that even if he spends it on a first level spell, it all goes away at once. That makes it much more reasonable, in my opinion. As it is, that one ability could almost be a class-defining ability (though don't get me wrong, it couldn't stand alone).
I might tone down the healing a bit, I didn't think it was too much since you can only use reserve Mana to fuel it, and reserve mana isn't that easy to obtain. I havn't done it yet, but I'm going to take the Cure series of spells off his spell list so that this is the only way to heal himself. As for making him lose all his reserve Mana in one round, I don't like it. I might impose an easier fort save (Like DC10 or something) to contain the Mana even when below half though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Ummm, your feats. Cool. Great. Greater maintenence is too good. Other than that, they all seem fine (that's your choice on power-balance anyway). Oh wait. Arcane aptitude isn't good enough. I would replace that with one that increased your maximum shaping mana (probably by 2 for every time your toook the feat, can be taken multiple times). If you still wanted it to give mana, you could have it give mana equal to Cha Mod.
I don't feel that greater maintenance is too good. You have to be level 12 to take it, and it's the only way I could fix one of the biggest problems with the Arcane abilities. Once you start maintaining them at higher levels, you're paying the equivalent of 3rd-5th level spells every round. Spells normally have a duration. If mage armor were on his spell list, the shaper could get +4 AC for 1 Mana and have it last a minute. But to do the same with Arcane Shield could cost 4 mana first round and 2 every round for the next 9 rounds totalling 22 mana!! With greater maintenance they can finally have that duration, I was actually thinking about reducing the level requirement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Arcane enhancement needs to not be (and/or). You should really limit them to one type at a time. I mean Jeeze. This isn't Naruto. Muscles don't work like that with adrenaline (and basically, you're giving them the ability to use mana as adrenaline).
I don't feel it needs to be (and/or) since you still have to obey the max amount of Mana you can spend in a round. So if you want all 3 stats pumped, they're only going to be pumped 1/3 the amount they could if you just pumped one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
I like bolts. I like shield. I like flight. I like defense.
Thank you! I try!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Okay, my only suggestions for storm are these. Shaper loses 1/3 of remaining mana (min 1), which is automatically spent toward a damage increase. Shaper's anti-magic field is equal to 20 feet + 10 for every 20 mana he uses. These keep him from dropping it in a low level area, by sapping not only his physical self (after all, could he not simply *fix* the fatigue with arcane enhancement?), but also his maximum power for that day. After all, it's pretty horrific. Also, mana spent toward damage would have to supercede his maximum shaping mana in one turn.
I'm a little confused by your wording, but Arcane Storm has gone through abour 15 revisions thus far. I think it's pretty much where I want it and it's about as easy to understand as it's going to get. The fatigue lasts until he rests. Period. The most Mana he could spend on the attack is 24 plus all the reserve mana he has. Thats at level 20 with the greater shaping feat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Is it all right if I take this once you're done with it for my campaigns?
Absolutely! If you would like this as a word document I have it fully prepared to be printed out, so I'll e-mail it to you if you would like. I don't have time today, I can only be on the computer for about 3 more minutes!
OK, thanks for the feedback !
Later,
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 04-09-06, 03:41 PM #33
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Any more questions? Comments? Critiques?
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 04-11-06, 04:47 AM #34
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Well, I'll make my little complaint about storm again, but simpler this time. I just think that if the shaper is sucking out al of the energy around him, he should be required to lose a percentage of his own energy as well. So I was suggesting that he be required to expend 1/3 of his current energy, to show how personal it is and how little control he has over its full fury. Of course, all that mana he expends should still definitely go into the damage. THat was all.
Oh, one more question. Do you think this to be balanced with the wizard?
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 04-12-06, 04:23 PM #35
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisanji Arael
Well, I'll make my little complaint about storm again, but simpler this time. I just think that if the shaper is sucking out al of the energy around him, he should be required to lose a percentage of his own energy as well. So I was suggesting that he be required to expend 1/3 of his current energy, to show how personal it is and how little control he has over its full fury. Of course, all that mana he expends should still definitely go into the damage. THat was all.
Oh, one more question. Do you think this to be balanced with the wizard?
I felt the expenditure of the Arcane Shaper's personal energy was displayed with the fatigue. I could up it to exhaustion. If it costs more Mana then it would be useless, they could just use arcane bolts. I do agree that it should definitely wear out the shaper though.
Is this balanced with the wizard? NO! This is more powerful I think. I does have fewer known spells than a wizard could have though, so in that respect a wizard could be more useful to a party. As for pure combat though, I would take a shaper over a wizard. When it comes to balance, this class is over the top, I wouldn't go as far to say it's as powerful as a gestalt character, but it's close. If you wan't to balance this out a bit for a normal campaign, reduce it's spell progression to that of a Bard. That makes it much, MUCH more balanced for normal play. This class was originally designed for my campaign, where it completely replaces wizard and sorcerer, and every other class has some flavorful bonus'.
So just give it the Bard's spell progression, capping it to 6th level spells! That balances it out quite a bit.
Later,
Des
Lucan_Desmond is offline Reply With Quote
Lucan_Desmond
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Lucan_Desmond
Send email to Lucan_Desmond
Find More Posts by Lucan_Desmond
Add Lucan_Desmond to Your Buddy List
Add Lucan_Desmond to your ignore list
Old 04-13-06, 03:34 AM #36
Kisanji Arael
Registered User
Kisanji Arael's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Over the rainbow and behind the crosshairs
Last Seen: Yesterday (04:59 AM)
Posts: 171
Cool. Could you just send me a copy of it when you're happy with it? I would also be interested in seeing these slightly more powerful classes as well.
Kisanji Arael is offline Reply With Quote
Kisanji Arael
View Public Profile
Send a private message to Kisanji Arael
Send email to Kisanji Arael
Find More Posts by Kisanji Arael
Add Kisanji Arael to Your Buddy List
Add Kisanji Arael to your ignore list
Old 04-13-06, 04:48 AM #37
Lucan_Desmond
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Massachusetts
Last Seen: 04-18-06 (06:09 PM)
Posts: 68
Excellent, I'll email it to you shortly. As for the other classes getting powered up, its not anything as planned out as an entire class. Small stuff like:
Fighters are allowed to choose a "light" fighting style. If they take this fighting style their Fort save is reduced to poor and their Reflex save becomes good. They are also allowed to add their BASE reflex save to AC when wearing light or no armor (I think I actually changed that to NO armor only)
Rangers, Bards, Monks, and rogues were also allowed to take that fighting style. I also gave the option of a "heavy" fighting style for Fighters, Paladins, and Barbarians where they would gain DR from armors and their CON score. This one I wasn't sure how to work it, I was fiddling with a few options.
A) Con mod give DR equal to Con mod/- and armors have set DR
B) Base fort becomes DR/- when wearing heavy armor
C) Some combination of the two...
The only player I have that took the heavy fighting style was a Barb and I went with option A and allowed it to stack with the DR he got as a class ability. It isn't that rediculous, nobody complains about it. I am starting to worry about it though, he pretty much immune to small, non-magical weapons like daggers and short swords. I just have to be careful to never give that character anything that will enhance his Con...
Druids and Clerics didn't get any bonus', they're powerful enough as it is.
Thats pretty much all the changes I went with... everyones havin fun, so I must be doin' something right!
Later,
Des[/sblock]
no luck with the blademaster :\
found a few Mystic threads, but most are old :
[sblock]New Class: The Mystic
All in the Top Post!)Merlion
04-18-03, 02:39 PM
I shall soon be running a small campaign, and I am making some relatively strong changes. Removing the Arcane/Divine magic divide, giving all classes access to many "Cleric" spells (including Healing), removing the Law/Chaos aspect of alignment and adding a new class...the Mystic.
They focus on healing and defense. Heres the info for you...mind, this is a first draft.
The Mystic
The Mystic is a Spellcaster whose power stems from a deep understanding of the world around them, and themselves. They spend hours in intensive meditation and observation of the world around them. Their spells focus on healing, defense, and spiritual matters. They can focus on specific types of spells, and as they grow in experience they gain special gifts linked to their deep understandings.
Adventures:
Mystics general adventure to gain knowledge and knew experiences. Since their power stems mainly from understanding, the more things and people they can observe and learn about, the greater their power becomes. Many good mystics are devoted to using their powers to heal and protect the innocent, while many evil ones work as advisers and magical support for powerful evil rulers in exchange for political power and luxuries.
Characteristics:
The power of a Mystics stems from their observation and understanding of the world around them, and of their own spirits. Their spells involve mainly healing and defense but the also have some offensive power and many spells that deal with other planes and dimensions. As they gain in knowledge an understanding, they also gain special gifts as a result of their insights. Eventually, Mystics transcend the mortal sphere and become magical beings.
Alignment: The majority of Mystics are good, using their powers to heal and protect the innocent. However many Mystics use their powers to control the minds of others, or become advisers and healers for powerful warlords in exchange for power and leisure.
Religion:
Background:
Mystics come from various backgrounds. Many are self taught…many seek out reclusive master Mystics to learn their ways. Many serve as healers and finders of lost things in small villages. Most discover their calling at an early age, but some choose to pursue the path of understanding later in life.
Races:
All races are drawn to the path of the Mystic. Humans and Elves are probably the most common, and many half elves are also drawn to a life of contemplation as an escape from prejudice. Half-Orcs especially those raised by Orcs, feel the path of the Mystic to be weak and inconsequential. Many nomadic Halflings become Mystics, since their travels give them ample opportunity to observe the world and its peoples. Gnome mystics tend to focus on using their powers to ward and defend gnomish communities.
Other Classes:
Mystics are great lovers of variety and diversity, and so tend to get along well with many types of people. Mystics get along particularly well with Monks, who the see as a different side of the same coin from themselves. Wizards and Sorcerers are fascinated and some times perhaps a little envious of the Mystic’s alternate approach to magic, and find their defensive powers an excellent compliment to their own destructive powers. Druids view Mystics as being a little unrealistic, but as most Mystics have a love of nature the two groups tend to get along well. Bards share the Mystics love of knowledge, knew experiences and travel. Rogues, especially those with criminal tendencies, tend to be a touch wary of Mystics and their keen perceptions. The warrior classes appreciate the Mystic for his healing and defensive powers. There is often a certain strain between Clerics and Mystics since they cast many of the same spells, but in different ways.
Game Rule Information:
Mystics have the following game statistics
Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell a Mystic can cast, how many spells a Mystic can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. To cast a spell a Mystic must have a Wisdom score of 10+ the level of the spell. A Mystic gains bonus spells based on Wisdom. The saving throw DC for a Mystics spell is 10 + the spells level + the Mystics Wisdom modifier. Charisma affects a Mystics special gifts, and Constitution increases the Mystic’s hit points.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills
The Mystics class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points and Each level: (4+ Int modifier) x4
Skill Points At Each Additional Level: 4+ Int modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Mystic
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the Mystic is proficient with all simple weapons. Mystics are not proficient with any armor or shields.
Spells: A Mystic casts XXXXXX spells. A Mystics selection of spells is limited, Your Mystic begins play knowing 4 0th level spells, and 3 first level spells of your choice. At each level a Mystic gains one or more new spells and indicated on the Mystic Spells Known table. A Mystics number of spells known is unaffected by his Wisdom modifier, however a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a sphere of Mystic spells gains an additional spell known at each spell level, but the extra spell must be from his specialty sphere.
A Mystic is limited to casting a certain number of spells per day, but he need not prepare them ahead of time. A Mystic’s bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and the saving throw DC for a Mystic’s spells is 10+ the level of the spell, + the Mystic’s Wisdom modifier.
Spheres:
Most Mystic spells are divided into Spheres. These are groupings of spells with a similar nature or theme, along with a set of Mystic gifts. At 1st level a Mystic may choose to specialize in a single Sphere of spells. Doing this grants the Mystic one extra known spell at each spell level which must be chosen from his specialty sphere, and a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks relating to spells of that Sphere. The Mystic must choose any one other Sphere of spells, to which he loses access. He cannot learn these spells, nor cast them from scrolls or wands. Additionally, a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere automatically gains the Mystic Gifts associated with that Sphere at the appropriate levels. A Mystic who does not specialize may choose any Mystic Gift of the appropriate level when reaching a given level.
Spells which do not fall into any Sphere are considered universal and may be learned and cast by any Mystic.
Mystic Gifts:
A Mystic gains certain special gifts as a result of his insight and understanding of the world. At 1st, 7th, 13th, and 20th level a Mystic may choose a Mystic Gift from the Mystic Gift list of the appropriate level. The Gifts are tied to the various Spheres of Mystic spells, and a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere of magic automatically gains the Gifts for that Sphere at the appropriate levels. The effects of various Mystic Gifts are based on the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
Transcendence:
Upon reaching 20th level the Mystic has reached a supernatural state of enlightenment and attunement with the cosmos. His type changes to Outsider, so he becomes immune to spells that only affect humanoids such as Charm Person, but he becomes subject to hedging out with a Magic Circle against his alignment and similar spells. Additionally, the Mystic gains a spell resistance of 25 and DR 5/Unholy (If the Mystic is good) or 5/Holy (If the Mystic is evil).
BAB and Saves are as a Wizard. Spells per Day and Spells known are attached as files down towards the bottom of the thread. Sorry about that
1st:
Alarm
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Hold Portal
Protection From Good/Evil
Mage Armor
Holy Bolt*
Shield
Summon Monster 1
Comprehend Languages
Detect Undead
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Sleep
Message
Magic Weapon
Calm Animals
Cure Light Wounds
Bless/Curse Water
Deathwatch
Detect Evil/Good
Inflict Light Wounds
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Endurance
Darkness
Daylight
Detect Thoughts
Magic Missile
Death Knell
Delay Poison
Consecrate/Desecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Calm Emotions
Enthrall
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Shield Other
Silence
Speak With Animals
Summon Monster 2
Undetectable Alignment
Charm Person or Animal
Arcane Lock
See Invisible
Misdirection
Spectral Hand
Darkvision
Levitate
Knock
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative Energy Protection
Protection From Arrows
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object
Spiritual Weapon
Invisibility
Disruption Blast*
Zone of Truth
Bestow Curse
Continual Flame
Create Food/Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Animate Dead
Invisibility Purge
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Nondetection
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Halt Undead
Displacement
Leomund'd Tiny Hut
Death Ward
4th:
Break Enchantment
Spell Resistance
Cure Critical Wounds
Dimensional Anchor
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
Contagion
Suggestion
Tongues
Greater Magic Weapon
Dismissal
Divination
Freedom Of Movement
Inflict Critical Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Poison
Restoration
Spell Immunity
Status
Summon Monster 4
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Enervation
5th:
Discern Lies
Antiplant Shell
Sending
Atonement
Mage Bolts*
Circle of Doom
Contact Other Plane(or Commune haven’t decided)
Dispel Evil/Good
Sending
True Seeing
Summon Monster 5
Hallow/Unhallow
Lesser Planar Binding
Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Improved Invisibility
Polymorph Self
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Hold Monster
Wall of Force
Dream/Nightmare
Magic Jar
Telekinesis
Permanency
Mark of Justice
Healing Circle
6th:
Planeshift
Forcecage
Teleport
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Ethereal Jaunt
Create Undead
Forbiddance
Greater Dispelling
Greater Glyph of Warding
Harm
Heal
Summon Monster 6
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Repulsion
Planar Binding
Analyze Dweomer
Circle of Death
Spell Turning
7th:
Geas/Quest
Etherealness
Word of Recall
Find the Path
Mass Suggestion
Greater Restoration
Greater Scrying
Holy/Unholy Word
Refuge
Greater Mark of Justice*
Regenerate
Resurrection
Summon Monster 7
Holy/Unholy Aura
Mind Blank
Sunbeam
Sequester
Insanity
Prismatic Spray
Shadow Walk
Finger of Death
Control Undead
8th:
Reverse Gravity
Teleport Without Error
Create Greater Undead
Discern Location
Mass Heal
Summon Monster 8
Symbol
Prismatic Wall
Greater Planar Binding
Maze
Trap the Soul
Demand
Sunburst
Mass Charm
9th:
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Gate
Implosion
Soul Bind
Summon Monster 9
True Resurrection
Freedom
Imprisonment
Prismatic Sphere
Power Word: Kill
Foresight
Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Weird
Shapechange
Temporal Stasis
Time Stop
Protection Grouping:
0th:
Resistance
1st:
Alarm, Endure Elements, Hold Portal, Mage Armor, Shield, Sanctuary, Protection From Evil/Good, Protection From Arrows
2nd:
Resist Elements, Shield Other, Silence, Arcane Lock, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Negative Energy Protection
3rd:
Invisibility, Glyph of Warding, Protection From Elements, Nondetection, Displacement, Death Ward
4th:
Spell Resistance, Spell Immunity, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement
5th:
Antiplant Shell, Improved Invisibility, Wall Of Force
6th:
Forcecage, Antilife Shell, Forbiddance, Greater Glyph Of Warding, Antimagic Field, Greater Globe Of Invulnerability, Repulsion, Spellturning
7th:
Refuge, Holy/Unholy Aura, Mindblank, Sequester
8th:
Symbol, Prismatic Wall
9th:
Prismatic Sphere, Foresight
Life Sphere:
0th:
Cure Minor Wounds
1st:
Cure Light Wounds, Deathwatch, Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid, Cure Moderate Wounds, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Endurance, Death Knell, Lesser Restoration, Delay Poison, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Create Food/Water, Cure Serious Wounds, Blindness/Deafness, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Death Ward
4th:
Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Cure Critical Wounds, Status
5th:
Healing Circle, Polymorph Self
6th:
Heal
7th:
Greater Restoration, Regeneration, Resurrection
8th:
Mass Heal
9th:
True Resurrection, Shapechange
Mind Sphere
0th:
Mage Hand, Detect Poison
1st:
Comprehend Languages, Detect Undead, Detect Secret Doors, Identify, Sleep, Calm Animals, Message
2nd:
Augury, Calm Emotions, Enthrall, Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, Speak With Animals, Charm Person Or Animal, See Invisible
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object, Zone of Truth, Invisibility Purge, Speak With Plants, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
4th:
Divination, Tongues, Suggestion, Arcane Eye, Confusion, Emotion, Locate Creature
5th:
Discern Lies, Sending, Contact Other Plane, True Seeing, Charm Monster, Hold Monster, Phantasmal Killer, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Telekinesis, Dream/Nightmare, Lesser Geas, Scrying
6th:
Analyze Dweomer
7th:
Insanity, Geas/Quest, Mass Suggestion, Find the Path, Greater Scrying
8th:
Discern Location, Trap the Soul
9th:
Astral Projection, Foresight, Weird
Antilife Grouping:
0th:
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st:
Deathwatch, Inflict Light Wounds
2nd:
Death Knell, Inflict Moderate Wounds
3rd:
Animate Dead, Halt Undead, Inflict Serious Wounds
4th:
Enervation, Inflict Critical Wounds
5th:
Circle Of Doom, Phantasmal Killer
6th:
Circle of Death, Create Undead, Harm
7th:
Control Undead, Finger of Death
8th:
Create Greater Undead
9th:
Energy Drain, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dimension Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Summon Monster 1
2nd:
Rope Trick, Summon Monster 2
3rd:
Blink, Summon Monster 3
4th:
Dimensional Anchor, Dismissal, Summon Monster 4
5th:
Contact Other Plane, Dimension Door, Lesser Planar Binding, Summon Monster 5
6th:
Ethereal Jaunt, Planeshift, Planar Binding, Summon Monster 6, Teleport
7th:
Etherealness, Shadow Walk, Summon Monster 7, Word of Recall
8th:
Greater Planar Binding, Maze, Summon Monster 8, Teleport Without Error
9th:
Astral Projection, Gate, Summon Monster 9
Smiting Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Inflict Light Wounds, Holy Bolt, Magic Weapon, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Magic Missile
3rd:
Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Inflict Serious Wounds, Searing Light, Spiritual Weapon, Disruption Blast*
4th:
Contagion, Greater Magic Weapon, Holy Smite/Unholy Blight, Inflict Critical Wounds, Poison
5th:
Circle of Doom, Dispel Evil/Good, Phantasmal Killer, Mage Bolts*
6th:
Circle of Death, Harm
7th:
Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray, Sunbeam
8th:
Sunburst
9th:
Energy Drain, Implosion, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dispelling Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Remove Fear
2nd:
Calm Emotions, Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Invisibility Purge, Remove Blindness/Deafness
4th:
Break Enchantment, Dismissal, Neutralize Poison, Restoration
5th:
Dispel Evil/Good
6th:
Banishment, Greater Dispelling
7th:
Greater Restoration, Holy/Unholy Word
8th:
Maze
9th:
Imprisonment, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Duality Grouping:
0th:
Light, Disrupt Undead
1st:
Bless/Curse Water, Detect Evil/Good, Holy/Unholy Bolt, Protection from Evil/Good, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Consecrate/Desecrate, Daylight, Darkness, Death Knell, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Undetectable Alignment, Disruption Blast*
3rd:
Animate Dead, Deeper Darkness, Halt Undead, Searing Light
4th:
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
5th:
Atonement, Dispel Evil/Good, Hallow/Unhallow, Lesser Planar Binding, Mark of Justice
6th:
Create Undead, Planar Binding
7th:
Control Undead, Holy/Unholy Aura, Holy/Unholy Word, Sunbeam, Greater Mark Of Justice*
8th:
Create Greater Undead, Greater Planar Binding, Sunburst
9th:
Freedom, Gate, Imprisonment, Soulbind
Mystic Class Abilities:
Protection Sphere:
1st level:
Mystic Force Field: At first level, the Mystic applies his Charisma modifier, if positive, as a deflection bonus to Armor class.
7th level:
Extended Protection: at 7th level, once per day the Mystic may cast a Protection sphere spell that will last for double the normal duration.
13th:
Mass Protection: at 13th level once per day a Mystic may cast a single Protection sphere spell with a range of touch or a target of one creature or object as an area spell with a radius of 30 ft that targets a number of creatures or objects equal to the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
20th level:
Invincibility:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may grant herself or a single touched creature the following benefits: a sacred (if the Mystic is good) or profane (if the Mystic is evil) bonus to armor class equal to twice the Mystic’s Charisma modifier, Damage Reduction 15/Unholy (if the Mystic is good) or 15/Holy (if the Mystic is evil) and a Spell Resistance of 30.Thease abilities last for 1 round/level. Invincibility is a spell-like Abjuration ability.
Life Sphere:
1st level:
Turn Undead: as Cleric
7th level:
Healing Gift: Once per day at 7th level the Mystic may cast a single Conjuration (healing) spell as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the spell slot used by the spell, or the casting time.
13th level:
Guarded Life:
At 13th level, the Mystic may add her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against energy drain, ability damage, ability drain and any form of negative energy attack.
20th level:
Empower Life:
Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may grant herself or another touched being the following benefits: Cure the target of all hit point damage, diseases, poisons, and ability damage, and confer a +4 bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, and a number of temporary hit points equal to her Charisma modifier(if positive) x10. This is a spell-like, Conjuration (Healing) ability.
Antilife Sphere:
1st level:
Rebuke/Command Undead (as Cleric ability)
7th level:
Lifetap: whenever you successfully damage an opponent with an Antilife Sphere spell, you are healed for half the amount of damage dealt. Any excess hit points beyond your maximum are lost.
13th level:
General of Undeath:
At 13th level the number of hit dice worth of undead you can control with your Command Undead power, and through the casting of Animate Dead (each separately) increases by one-half. So you can command or create a number of Hit Dice of undead equal to your level x1.5.
20th level:
Siphon Life:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may make a touch attack against a living creature with the following affects: the creature suffers 150 points of damage Fortitude save for half damage), and the Mystic is healed for half the damage taken as per the Lifetap ability, the subject takes 1d4+1 points of ability damage to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and the Mystic gains half the damage taken as an enhancement bonus to his own ability scores. The DC for the Fortitude save against the damage is 12+ the Mystic’s Charisma Modifier.
Smiting Sphere:
1st level:
Smite: Once per day at 1st level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spell and add his Wisdom modifier as either a bonus to each die of damage (for damaging spells) or to the saving throw DC (for other spells). The ability may be applied to spells affected by a metamagic feat. The Mystic can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level.
7th level:
Great Smite: Once per day at 7th level, the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spells as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the casting time or spell slot used of the spell. This ability may not be combined with the Smite ability.
13th level:
Strengthened Smiting: Starting at 13th level, the Mystic’s Smiting sphere spells gain the following benefits: +1 die of damage, +2 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus stacks with that granted by the Spell Penetration feat.
20th level:
Supreme Smite: Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting sphere spell with the following benefits: Double damage, +4 save DC, +4 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance.
Dimension Sphere:
1st level:
At 1st level the Mystic gains the Augmented Summoning feat
7th level:
Dimension Slip: at 7th level the Mystic can slide between the dimensions to cover distance in an instant. This ability is similar to the spell Dimension Door, but the Mystic can only move up to 20 feet per class level.
13th level:
Send Away: at 13th level the Mystic becomes highly proficient at dealing with extraplanar beings. The Mystic gains a +2 bonus to all dispel attempts against extraplanar beings, as well as to caster level checks to overcome the spell resistance of such creatures. This bonus is also added to the saving throw DCs of all Dimension sphere spells when used to banish extraplanar beings.
20th level:
Planewalker: At 20th level the Mystic becomes able to move between the planes more easily than most. She can Plane Shift once per day, and becomes immune to the harmful effects of a single plane other than her home plane that she has visited at some point. Additionally by spending a week’s time in meditation on another plane and expending 5,000 XP the Mystic may so attune herself to additional planes. This is a supernatural ability.
Mind Sphere:
1st level:
Still Mind: at 1st level the Mystic gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against Enchantment spells and effects
7th level:
Slippery Mind:
At 7th level if the Mystic is subjected to an Enchantment and fails her saving throw, one round later she may attempt the save again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw.
13th level:
Telepathy: at 13th level the Mystic is able to communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that shares a language with the Mystic.
20th level:
Mind Mastery:
At 20th level the Mystic becomes immune to all Enchantment spells and effects. Additionally, she may use her Telepathy ability to communicate with any creature that has a language.
Dispelling Sphere:
1st level:
At first level the Mystic gains the Spell Penetration feat
7th level:
Enhanced Dispelling:
At 7th level the Mystic receives a +2 bonus to all Dispel checks. This includes caster level checks made for the casting of spells such as Break Enchantment
13th level:
Empowered Dispelling: once per day at 13th level the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell that requires a Dispel Check (such as Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment) and automatically succeed at the check. The use of this ability must be announced before the spell is cast.
20th level:
Supreme Dispel: at 20th level the Mystic gains an additional +2 bonus to all dispel checks(this stacks with Enhanced Dispelling). Additionally, once per day the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell as a free action without altering the slot used by the spell.
Duality Sphere
1st Level:
Shield of Faith: at 1st level the Mystic applies her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities cast or used by beings whose alignment is opposed to your own, and spells with an alignment descriptor opposed to your own alignment
7th level:
Turn Evil/Good: at 7th level, the Mystic gains the ability to turn and destroy (if the Mystic is good), or rebuke and command (if the Mystic is evil) undead creatures. At 13th level the Mystic can also turn evil outsiders (if good) or good outsiders (if evil).
13th level:
Know Alignment: at 13th level, the Mystic always knows the alignment of any being he looks upon. If the being is protected by a spell that shields alignment, the Mystic may make a caster level check with a DC of 11 plus the level of the spell to perceive the beings alignment in spite of the protection
20th level:
At 20th level the Mystic gains the Celestial template, if good, or the Fiendish template, if evil.
And heres the new spells mentioned:
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 2, Good 2, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets.. Each bolt deals 1d8+1 points of damage.Only evil beings and undead are damaged by this spell. You have 1 bolt at 1st level, 2 at 3rd and an additional bolt for every three levels beyond 3rd (3 at 6th 4 at 9th and the maximum of 5 at 12th level).
Disruption Blast
Evocation [Good]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 3
Components: V, S
As Fireball, accept this spell creates a blast of intense positive energy. This energy deals 1d6 damage per caster level (max 10d6) to undead and evil extraplanar beings. Other beings take no damage.
Celestial Flames
Evocation [Good]
Mys 4, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, F
Range: Medium (100ft +10 ft/level)
Area: 20 ft radius
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: See Text
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell calls upon the power of goodness to smite the wicked. The area of effect is filled with what appear as shining white flames (although no heat or fire damage is involved). Evil creatures caught in this blast take 1d8 points of holy damage for every two caster levels, starting with first, to a maximum of 10d8 damage, and are blinded for 1d4 rounds. A successful Reflex save halves the damage, and a successful Will save halves the duration of the blindness. Good beings and nonsentient life forms are not harmed by this spell.
Mage Bolts
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 5
Target: 1 or more creatures or objects no two of which may be more than 15 ft apart
As Magic Missile accept as above, and as follows: each bolt inflicts 2d6+2 points of damage, and each bolt requires a ranged touched attack to hit its target.
Greater Mark Of Justice
Transmutation
Level: Clr 7, Mys 7
As Mark of Justice, accept that the caster may choose the following affects for the mark to visit on the target: 10d6 points of damage of any type chosen by the caster, stunning for 5d6 rounds, or 2d6 points of Constitution damage. Additionally, these affects take place upon the subject each and every time he attempts to take the prohibited action or actions
Tell me what you think
Merlion
04-18-03, 03:36 PM
Heres the 1st level of the spell list I am creating for the Mystic. Sorry its not in alphabetical order
Mind this is a first draft
Mystic Spell List:
1st Level:
Cure Light Wounds
Comprehend Languages
True Strike
Protection From Good/Evil
Deathwatch
Detect Good/Evil
Feather Fall
Inflict Light Wounds
Detect Undead
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Sanctuary
Mage Armor
Random Action
Summon Monster 1
Sleep
Message
Cause Fear
Calm Animals
Magic Weapon
Command
Bless/Curse Water
Remove Fear
Expeditious Retreat
Anticipated Attack(BOEM2)
Creature Loresight(BOEM2)
Object Loresight(BOEM2)
Negative Energy Ray(TAB, going to develop
a positive version)
Obscuring Mist
Low-Light Vision(MOF)
Know Protections(MOF)
Wieldskill(MOF)
Guilt(BOEM)
Precise Vision(BOEM)
Empathic Resonance(RAR)
Quiet Contemplation(RAR)
Serpents Stare(RR2)
Prevarications Bounty(RR)
Forereaction(RR2)
And some sort of less powerful Magic Missile variant I shall design
gpetruc
04-18-03, 03:40 PM
I made this some time ago for a low-magic renaissance world (jet unfinished).
http://digilander.libero.it/gpetruc/crystaldawn/mystic.html
Probably is not what you are thinking of, but just for giving some ideas, that's it.
Merlion
04-18-03, 03:45 PM
Ooo thank you...your right its not exactly what I'm after but its really quite similar...this will help me as I go thanks..
Merlion
04-18-03, 04:05 PM
As far as the basics I'm figuring d6 HD, Wizard BAB, 4 skill points and probably Craft, Concentration, Decipher Script, All Knowledge, Diplomacy, Sense Motive and Spellcraft..and Profession of course..
Merlion
04-18-03, 05:26 PM
Heres a rough draft of the spell list up to 3rd
Mystic Spell List:
1st Level:
Cure Light Wounds
Comprehend Languages
True Strike
Protection From Good/Evil
Deathwatch
Detect Good/Evil
Feather Fall
Inflict Light Wounds
Detect Undead
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Sanctuary
Mage Armor
Random Action
Summon Monster 1
Sleep
Message
Cause Fear
Calm Animals
Magic Weapon
Command
Bless/Curse Water
Remove Fear
Expeditious Retreat
Anticipated Attack(BOEM2)
Creature Loresight(BOEM2)
Object Loresight(BOEM2)
Negative Energy Ray(TAB, going to develop
a positive version)
Obscuring Mist
Low-Light Vision(MOF)
Know Protections(MOF)
Wieldskill(MOF)
Guilt(BOEM)
Precise Vision(BOEM)
Empathic Resonance(RAR)
Quiet Contemplation(RAR)
Serpents Stare(RR2)
Prevarications Bounty(RR)
Forereaction(RR2)
And some sort of less powerful Magic Missile variant I shall design
2nd level:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cats Grace
Endurance
Cure Moderate Wounds
Consecrate
Darkness
Death Knell
Daylight
Delay Poison
Enthrall
Hold Person
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Make Whole
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Silence
Speak With Animals
Spiritual Weapon
Undetectable Alignment
Zone of Truth
Arcane Lock
Fog Cloud
Summon Monster 2
Detect Thoughts
CHarm Person or Animal
See Invisible
Invisibility
Mirror Image
Misdirection
Scare
Darkvision
Knock
Levitate
Rope Trick
Wispering Wind
Divine Flame(DOF)
Divine Zephyr(DOF)
Knife Spray(DOF)
Filter(TOB)
Gaze Screen(TOB)
Indifference(TOB)
False Life(TOB)
Eagle's Splendor
Fox's Cunning
Owl's Wisdom
Curse of Ill Fortune(MOF)
Hand of Divinity(MOF)
Spell Shield(MOF)
Life Bolt(MOF)
Protection From Arrows
Mapping(RR2)
Life Shield(RR2)
Essence Flare(RR2)
Dragonhide(RR2)
Burst Of Energy(RR2)
Bread of Life(RR2)
Curse of Solidity(RR2)
Dead Man's Eyes(RR)
Virtue's Curse(RR2)
Static Veil(BOEM)
3rd Level:
Bestow Curse
Blindness/Deafness
Contagion
Continual Flame
Create Food and Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Invisibility Purge
Locate Object
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative/Positive Energy Protection
Obscure Object
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Stone Shape
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Wind Wall
Nuetralize Poison
Poison
Nondetection
Clairadience/Clairvoyance
Tongues
Suggestion
Emotion
Leomund's Tiny Hut
Displacement
Invisibility Sphere
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Haste
Lesser Telepathic Bond(DOF)
Sword Stream(DOF)
Arcane Sight(TAB)
Corpse Candle(TAB)
Feign Death(TAB)
Negative Energy Burst(originaly TOB, I plan to modify it and create a positive variant)
g'Elsewhere Chant(MOF)
Forceward(MOF)
Remedy Moderate Wounds(MOF)
Healing Sting(MOF)
Infestation of Maggots(MOF)
Reverse Arrows(MOF)
Blacklight(MOF)
Flashburst(MOF)
Undead Lieutenant(MOF)
Undead Torch(MOF)
Blindsight(MOF)
Greater Mage Hand(MOF)
Greater Sleep(BOEM)
Bone Tattoo(BOEM)
Bolt of Conjuring(BOEM)
Detect Dreams(RR2)
Mind Raid(RR2)
CHardun's Torments(RR)
Curse of Terror(RR)
Repair Dead(RR2)
Shadow Touch(RR)
SunSpear(RR will most likely modify and create negative variant)
Merlion
04-21-03, 09:50 AM
I will be posting more stuff on here as I hash it out. Imput on what I have is apreciated.
gpetruc
04-21-03, 02:46 PM
I didn't read through all the spell list, but I'm not sure on some of them, like summon Monster , Rope Trick, Leomund's Tiny Hut: they seem a little too artificial to be cast simply by begin very well focused with positive/negative energy ...
but this is only my opinion
What spellcastig progression would they have ?
Casting in armor ?
Merlion
04-21-03, 02:59 PM
Well the positive/negative energy focus is just one aspect. they are also strong in defense and utility of most types.
I am thinking of making them spontaneous casters with slightly fewer spells per day and more spells known than the sorcerer.
I dont plan on giving them any armor profciency...and since in my campaign theirs not going to be the Arcane/Divine split everyone suffers spell failure although I think I am going to alter it a bit.
I see their powers as stemming from intense medititation and oberservation of the world and themselves. they are focused on positive/negative energy, alignment(which in my game will consist of Good and Evil) and defense/utility.
Merlion
04-25-03, 02:25 PM
Ok here is the first real draft of the Mystic spell list, with just spells from the PHB for now, until I have it totaly fine tuned, then I will start adding spells from elsewhere.
I am seriously consider dividing their spells into several related groupings(perhaps Protection, Healing etc) and give them an option to focus on one area, gaining perhaps bonus spells known and having that determine their special class abilities in exchange for losing one area...something like that.
Anyway here it is:
(And just as a note, many of thease spells will be getting a name change)
0th:
Detect Magic
Read Magic
Cure Minor Wounds
Inflict Minor Wounds
Light
Purify Food and Drink
Resistance
Disrupt Undead
Mage Hand
Arcane Mark
Detect Poison
1st:
Alarm
Endure Elements
Hold Portal
Protection From Good/Evil
Mage Armor
Holy Bolt*
Shield
Summon Monster 1
Comprehend Langauges
Detect Undead
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Sleep
Message
Magic Weapon
Calm Animals
Cure Light Wounds
Bless/Curse Water
Deathwatch
Detect Evil/Good
Inflict Light Wounds
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Expeditious Retreat
Protection From Arrows
2nd:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Endurance
Darkness
Daylight
Magic Missile
Death Knell
Delay Poison
Consecrate/Desecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Calm Emotions
Enthrall
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Shield Other
Silence
Speak With Animals
Summon Monster 2
Undetectable Alignment
Charm Person or Animal
Arcane Lock
See Invisible
Misdirection
Spectral Hand
Darkvision
Levitate
Knock
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative Energy Protection
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object
Spiritual Weapon
Invisibility
Zone of Truth
Bestow Curse
Continual Flame
Create Food/Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Animate Dead
Invisibility Purge
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Nondetection
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Halt Undead
Displacement
Leomund'd Tiny Hut
Death Ward
4th:
Break Enchantment
Spell Resistance
Cure Critical Wounds
Dimensional Anchor
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
Contagion
Suggestion
Tongues
Greater Magic Weapon
Dismissal
Divination
Freedom Of Movement
Inflict Critical Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Poison
Resistance
Spell Immunity
Status
Restoration
Summon Monster 4
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Enervation
5th:
Discern Lies
Antiplant Shell
Sending
Atonement
Circle of Doom
Contact Other Plane(or Commune havent decided)
Dispel Evil/Good
Sending
True Seeing
Summon Monster 5
Hallow/Unhallow
Lesser Planar Binding
Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Improved Invisibility
Polymorph Self
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Hold Monster
Wall of Force
Dream/Nightmare
Magic Jar
Telekinesis
Permanency
Mark of Justice
Healing Circle
6th:
Planeshift
Forcecage
Teleport
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Ethereal Jaunt
Create Undead
Forbiddance
Greater Dispelling
Greater Glyph of Warding
Harm
Heal
Summon Monster 6
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Repulsion
Planar Binding
Analyze Dweomer
Circle of Deather
Spell Turning
7th:
Geas/Quest
Etherealness
Word of Recall
Find the Path
Mass Suggestion
Greater Restoration
Greater Scrying
Holy/Unholy Word
Refuge
Regenerate
Ressurection
Summon Monster 7
Holy/Unholy Aura
Mind Blank
Sunbeam
Sequester
Insanity
Prismatic Spray
SHadow Walk
Finger of Death
Control Undead
8th:
Reverse Gravity
Teleport Without Error
Create Greater Undead
Discern Location
Mass Heal
Summon Monster 8
Symbol
Prismatic Wall
Greater Planar Binding
Maze
Trap the Soul
Demand
Sunburst
Mass Charm
9th:
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Gate
Implosion
Soul Bind
Summon Monster 9
True Ressurection
Freedom
Imprisonment
Prismatic Sphere
Power Word:Kill
Foresight
Weird
Shapechange
Temporal Stasis
Time Stop
Merlion
04-28-03, 09:49 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 1, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack to hit your targets. Each bolt deals 1d6+1 points of damage. Only evil beings and undead are damaged by this spell. You can create one bolt for every two levels of experience, so you have 2 bolts at 3rd level, 3 at 5th etc up to the maximum of 5 bolts at 9th level.
I created this as a first level offensive spell for my mystic class. the level listings up their include cleric as it would also be a cleric spell in a typical campaign
Merlion
04-29-03, 08:05 PM
Ok here is the first draft of the class abilities for the Mystic. theirs a set tied to each sphere. a Mystic who specialiazes recives that suite of abilities, one who does not can pick from any ability at the right levels.
Bear in mind, this is a first draft.
Mystic Class Abilities:
Protection Sphere:
1st level:
Mystic Force Field: At first level, the Mystic applies his Charisma modifier, if positive, as a deflection bonus to Armor class.
7th level:
Extended Protection: at 7th level, once per day the Mystic may cast a Protection sphere spell that will last for double the normal duration.
13th:
Mass Protection: at 13th level once per day a Mystic may cast a single Protection sphere spell with a range of touch or a target of one creature or object as an area spell with a radius of 30 ft that targets a number of creatures or objects equal to the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
20th level:
Invincibility:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may grant herself or a single touched creature the following benefits: a sacred (if the Mystic is good) or profane (if the Mystic is evil) bonus to armor class equal to twice the Mystic’s Charisma modifier, Damage Reduction 15/Unholy (if the Mystic is good) or 15/Holy (if the Mystic is evil) and a Spell Resistance of 30.Thease abilities last for 1 round/level. Invincibility is a spell-like Abjuration ability.
Life Sphere:
1st level:
Turn Undead: as Cleric
7th level:
Healing Gift: Once per day at 7th level the Mystic may cast a single Conjuration (healing) spell as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the spell slot used by the spell, or the casting time.
13th level:
Guarded Life:
At 13th level, the Mystic may add her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against energy drain, ability damage, ability drain and any form of negative energy attack.
20th level:
Empower Life:
Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may grant herself or another touched being the following benefits: Cure the target of all hit point damage, diseases, poisons, and ability damage, and confer a +4 bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, and a number of temporary hit points equal to her Charisma modifier(if positive) x10. This is a spell-like, Conjuration (Healing) ability.
Antilife Sphere:
1st level:
Rebuke/Command Undead (as Cleric ability)
7th level:
Lifetap: whenever you successfully damage an opponent with an Antilife Sphere spell, you are healed for half the amount of damage dealt. Any excess hit points beyond your maximum are lost.
13th level:
General of Undeath:
At 13th level the number of hit dice worth of undead you can control with your Command Undead power, and through the casting of Animate Dead (each separately) increases by one-half. So you can command or create a number of Hit Dice of undead equal to your level x1.5.
20th level:
Siphon Life:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may make a touch attack against a living creature with the following affects: the creature suffers 150 points of damage Fortitude save for half damage), and the Mystic is healed for half the damage taken as per the Lifetap ability, the subject takes 1d4+1 points of ability damage to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and the Mystic gains half the damage taken as an enhancement bonus to his own ability scores. The DC for the Fortitude save against the damage is 12+ the Mystic’s Charisma Modifier.
Smiting Sphere:
1st level:
Smite: Once per day at 1st level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spell and add his Charisma modifier as either a bonus to each die of damage (for damaging spells) or to the saving throw DC (for other spells). The ability may be applied to spells affected by a metamagic feat. The Mystic can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level.
7th level:
Great Smite: Once per day at 7th level, the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spells as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the casting time or spell slot used of the spell. This ability may not be combined with the Smite ability.
13th level:
Strengthened Smiting: Starting at 13th level, the Mystic’s Smiting sphere spells gain the following benefits: +1 die of damage, +2 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus stacks with that granted by the Spell Penetration feat.
20th level:
Supreme Smite: Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting sphere spell with the following benefits: Double damage, +4 save DC, +4 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance.
Dimension Sphere:
1st level:
At 1st level the Mystic gains the Augmented Summoning feat
7th level:
Dimension Slip: at 7th level the Mystic can slide between the dimensions to cover distance in an instant. This ability is similar to the spell Dimension Door, but the Mystic can only move up to 20 feet per class level.
13th level:
Send Away: at 13th level the Mystic becomes highly proficient at dealing with extraplanar beings. The Mystic gains a +2 bonus to all dispel attempts against extraplanar beings, as well as to caster level checks to overcome the spell resistance of such creatures. This bonus is also added to the saving throw DCs of all Dimension sphere spells when used to banish extraplanar beings.
20th level:
Planewalker: At 20th level the Mystic becomes able to move between the planes more easily than most. She can Plane Shift once per day, and becomes immune to the harmful effects of a single plane other than her home plane that she has visited at some point. Additionally by spending a week’s time in meditation on another plane and expending 5,000 XP the Mystic may so attune herself to additional planes. This is a supernatural ability.
Mind Sphere:
1st level:
Still Mind: at 1st level the Mystic gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against Enchantment spells and effects
7th level:
Slippery Mind:
At 7th level if the Mystic is subjected to an Enchantment and fails her saving throw, one round later she may attempt the save again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw.
13th level:
Telepathy: at 13th level the Mystic is able to communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that shares a language with the Mystic.
20th level:
Mind Mastery:
At 20th level the Mystic becomes immune to all Enchantment spells and effects. Additionally, she may use her Telepathy ability to communicate with any creature that has a language.
Dispelling Sphere:
1st level:
At first level the Mystic gains the Spell Penetration feat
7th level:
Enhanced Dispelling:
At 7th level the Mystic receives a +2 bonus to all Dispel checks. This includes caster level checks made for the casting of spells such as Break Enchantment
13th level:
Empowered Dispelling: once per day at 13th level the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell that requires a Dispel Check (such as Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment) and automatically succeed at the check. The use of this ability must be announced before the spell is cast.
20th level:
Supreme Dispel: at 20th level the Mystic gains an additional +2 bonus to all dispel checks(this stacks with Enhanced Dispelling). Additionally, once per day the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell as a free action without altering the slot used by the spell.
Duality Sphere
1st Level:
Shield of Faith: at 1st level the Mystic applies her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities cast or used by beings whose alignment is opposed to your own, and spells with an alignment descriptor opposed to your own alignment
7th level:
Turn Evil/Good: at 7th level, the Mystic gains the ability to turn and destroy (if the Mystic is good), or rebuke and command (if the Mystic is evil) undead creatures. At 13th level the Mystic can also turn evil outsiders (if good) or good outsiders (if evil).
13th level:
Know Alignment: at 13th level, the Mystic always knows the alignment of any being he looks upon. If the being is protected by a spell that shields alignment, the Mystic may make a caster level check with a DC of 11 plus the level of the spell to perceive the beings alignment in spite of the protection
20th level:
At 20th level the Mystic gains the Celestial template, if good, or the Fiendish template, if evil.
Merlion
05-01-03, 09:28 AM
Ok heres the first draft of everything for my Mystic class, starting with the basics.
The Mystic
The Mystic is a Spellcaster whose power stems from a deep understanding of the world around them, and themselves. They spend hours in intensive meditation and observation of the world around them. Their spells focus on healing, defense, and spiritual matters. They can focus on specific types of spells, and as they grow in experience they gain special gifts linked to their deep understandings.
Adventures:
Mystics general adventure to gain knowledge and knew experiences. Since their power stems mainly from understanding, the more things and people they can observe and learn about, the greater their power becomes. Many good mystics are devoted to using their powers to heal and protect the innocent, while many evil ones work as advisers and magical support for powerful evil rulers in exchange for political power and luxuries.
Characteristics:
The power of a Mystics stems from their observation and understanding of the world around them, and of their own spirits. Their spells involve mainly healing and defense but the also have some offensive power and many spells that deal with other planes and dimensions. As they gain in knowledge an understanding, they also gain special gifts as a result of their insights. Eventually, Mystics transcend the mortal sphere and become magical beings.
Alignment: The majority of Mystics are good, using their powers to heal and protect the innocent. However many Mystics use their powers to control the minds of others, or become advisers and healers for powerful warlords in exchange for power and leisure.
Religion:
Background:
Mystics come from various backgrounds. Many are self taught…many seek out reclusive master Mystics to learn their ways. Many serve as healers and finders of lost things in small villages. Most discover their calling at an early age, but some choose to pursue the path of understanding later in life.
Races:
All races are drawn to the path of the Mystic. Humans and Elves are probably the most common, and many half elves are also drawn to a life of contemplation as an escape from prejudice. Half-Orcs especially those raised by Orcs, feel the path of the Mystic to be weak and inconsequential. Many nomadic Halflings become Mystics, since their travels give them ample opportunity to observe the world and its peoples. Gnome mystics tend to focus on using their powers to ward and defend gnomish communities.
Other Classes:
Mystics are great lovers of variety and diversity, and so tend to get along well with many types of people. Mystics get along particularly well with Monks, who the see as a different side of the same coin from themselves. Wizards and Sorcerers are fascinated and some times perhaps a little envious of the Mystic’s alternate approach to magic, and find their defensive powers an excellent compliment to their own destructive powers. Druids view Mystics as being a little unrealistic, but as most Mystics have a love of nature the two groups tend to get along well. Bards share the Mystics love of knowledge, knew experiences and travel. Rogues, especially those with criminal tendencies, tend to be a touch wary of Mystics and their keen perceptions. The warrior classes appreciate the Mystic for his healing and defensive powers. There is often a certain strain between Clerics and Mystics since they cast many of the same spells, but in different ways.
Game Rule Information:
Mystics have the following game statistics
Abilities: Wisdom determines how powerful a spell a Mystic can cast, how many spells a Mystic can cast per day, and how hard those spells are to resist. To cast a spell a Mystic must have a Wisdom score of 10+ the level of the spell. A Mystic gains bonus spells based on Wisdom. The saving throw DC for a Mystics spell is 10 + the spells level + the Mystics Wisdom modifier. Charisma affects a Mystics special gifts, and Constitution increases the Mystic’s hit points.
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills
The Mystics class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Craft (Int), Concentration (Con), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (All skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points and Each level: (4+ Int modifier) x4
Skill Points At Each Additional Level: 4+ Int modifier
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Mystic
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: the Mystic is proficient with all simple weapons. Mystics are not proficient with any armor or shields.
Spells: A Mystic casts XXXXXX spells. A Mystics selection of spells is limited, Your Mystic begins play knowing 4 0th level spells, and 3 first level spells of your choice. At each level a Mystic gains one or more new spells and indicated on the Mystic Spells Known table. A Mystics number of spells known is unaffected by his Wisdom modifier, however a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a sphere of Mystic spells gains an additional spell known at each spell level, but the extra spell must be from his specialty sphere.
A Mystic is limited to casting a certain number of spells per day, but he need not prepare them ahead of time. A Mystic’s bonus spells are based on Wisdom, and the saving throw DC for a Mystic’s spells is 10+ the level of the spell, + the Mystic’s Wisdom modifier.
Spheres:
Most Mystic spells are divided into Spheres. These are groupings of spells with a similar nature or theme, along with a set of Mystic gifts. At 1st level a Mystic may choose to specialize in a single Sphere of spells. Doing this grants the Mystic one extra known spell at each spell level which must be chosen from his specialty sphere, and a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks relating to spells of that Sphere. The Mystic must choose any one other Sphere of spells, to which he loses access. He cannot learn these spells, nor cast them from scrolls or wands. Additionally, a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere automatically gains the Mystic Gifts associated with that Sphere at the appropriate levels. A Mystic who does not specialize may choose any Mystic Gift of the appropriate level when reaching a given level.
Spells which do not fall into any Sphere are considered universal and may be learned and cast by any Mystic.
Mystic Gifts:
A Mystic gains certain special gifts as a result of his insight and understanding of the world. At 1st, 7th, 13th, and 20th level a Mystic may choose a Mystic Gift from the Mystic Gift list of the appropriate level. The Gifts are tied to the various Spheres of Mystic spells, and a Mystic who chooses to specialize in a Sphere of magic automatically gains the Gifts for that Sphere at the appropriate levels. The effects of various Mystic Gifts are based on the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
Transcendence:
Upon reaching 20th level the Mystic has reached a supernatural state of enlightenment and attunement with the cosmos. His type changes to Outsider, so he becomes immune to spells that only affect humanoids such as Charm Person, but he becomes subject to hedging out with a Magic Circle against his alignment and similar spells. Additionally, the Mystic gains a spell resistance of 25 and DR 5/Unholy (If the Mystic is good) or 5/Holy (If the Mystic is evil).
BAB and Saves are as Wizard. I have attached spells per day and spells known as files since they dont want to past right. I will attach one to this post and post another for the other one.
Now the Mystic Gifts:
Mystic Class Abilities:
Protection Sphere:
1st level:
Mystic Force Field: At first level, the Mystic applies his Charisma modifier, if positive, as a deflection bonus to Armor class.
7th level:
Extended Protection: at 7th level, once per day the Mystic may cast a Protection sphere spell that will last for double the normal duration.
13th:
Mass Protection: at 13th level once per day a Mystic may cast a single Protection sphere spell with a range of touch or a target of one creature or object as an area spell with a radius of 30 ft that targets a number of creatures or objects equal to the Mystic’s Charisma modifier.
20th level:
Invincibility:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may grant herself or a single touched creature the following benefits: a sacred (if the Mystic is good) or profane (if the Mystic is evil) bonus to armor class equal to twice the Mystic’s Charisma modifier, Damage Reduction 15/Unholy (if the Mystic is good) or 15/Holy (if the Mystic is evil) and a Spell Resistance of 30.Thease abilities last for 1 round/level. Invincibility is a spell-like Abjuration ability.
Life Sphere:
1st level:
Turn Undead: as Cleric
7th level:
Healing Gift: Once per day at 7th level the Mystic may cast a single Conjuration (healing) spell as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the spell slot used by the spell, or the casting time.
13th level:
Guarded Life:
At 13th level, the Mystic may add her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against energy drain, ability damage, ability drain and any form of negative energy attack.
20th level:
Empower Life:
Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may grant herself or another touched being the following benefits: Cure the target of all hit point damage, diseases, poisons, and ability damage, and confer a +4 bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution, and a number of temporary hit points equal to her Charisma modifier(if positive) x10. This is a spell-like, Conjuration (Healing) ability.
Antilife Sphere:
1st level:
Rebuke/Command Undead (as Cleric ability)
7th level:
Lifetap: whenever you successfully damage an opponent with an Antilife Sphere spell, you are healed for half the amount of damage dealt. Any excess hit points beyond your maximum are lost.
13th level:
General of Undeath:
At 13th level the number of hit dice worth of undead you can control with your Command Undead power, and through the casting of Animate Dead (each separately) increases by one-half. So you can command or create a number of Hit Dice of undead equal to your level x1.5.
20th level:
Siphon Life:
At 20th level once per day the Mystic may make a touch attack against a living creature with the following affects: the creature suffers 150 points of damage Fortitude save for half damage), and the Mystic is healed for half the damage taken as per the Lifetap ability, the subject takes 1d4+1 points of ability damage to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution and the Mystic gains half the damage taken as an enhancement bonus to his own ability scores. The DC for the Fortitude save against the damage is 12+ the Mystic’s Charisma Modifier.
Smiting Sphere:
1st level:
Smite: Once per day at 1st level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spell and add his Wisdom modifier as either a bonus to each die of damage (for damaging spells) or to the saving throw DC (for other spells). The ability may be applied to spells affected by a metamagic feat. The Mystic can use this ability an additional time per day at 10th level.
7th level:
Great Smite: Once per day at 7th level, the Mystic may cast a single Smiting Sphere spells as though under the effects of the Maximize Spell feat. This does not affect the casting time or spell slot used of the spell. This ability may not be combined with the Smite ability.
13th level:
Strengthened Smiting: Starting at 13th level, the Mystic’s Smiting sphere spells gain the following benefits: +1 die of damage, +2 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus stacks with that granted by the Spell Penetration feat.
20th level:
Supreme Smite: Once per day at 20th level the Mystic may cast a single Smiting sphere spell with the following benefits: Double damage, +4 save DC, +4 to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance.
Dimension Sphere:
1st level:
At 1st level the Mystic gains the Augmented Summoning feat
7th level:
Dimension Slip: at 7th level the Mystic can slide between the dimensions to cover distance in an instant. This ability is similar to the spell Dimension Door, but the Mystic can only move up to 20 feet per class level.
13th level:
Send Away: at 13th level the Mystic becomes highly proficient at dealing with extraplanar beings. The Mystic gains a +2 bonus to all dispel attempts against extraplanar beings, as well as to caster level checks to overcome the spell resistance of such creatures. This bonus is also added to the saving throw DCs of all Dimension sphere spells when used to banish extraplanar beings.
20th level:
Planewalker: At 20th level the Mystic becomes able to move between the planes more easily than most. She can Plane Shift once per day, and becomes immune to the harmful effects of a single plane other than her home plane that she has visited at some point. Additionally by spending a week’s time in meditation on another plane and expending 5,000 XP the Mystic may so attune herself to additional planes. This is a supernatural ability.
Mind Sphere:
1st level:
Still Mind: at 1st level the Mystic gains a +2 bonus to saving throws against Enchantment spells and effects
7th level:
Slippery Mind:
At 7th level if the Mystic is subjected to an Enchantment and fails her saving throw, one round later she may attempt the save again. She only gets this one extra chance to succeed at her saving throw.
13th level:
Telepathy: at 13th level the Mystic is able to communicate telepathically with any creature within 60 feet that shares a language with the Mystic.
20th level:
Mind Mastery:
At 20th level the Mystic becomes immune to all Enchantment spells and effects. Additionally, she may use her Telepathy ability to communicate with any creature that has a language.
Dispelling Sphere:
1st level:
At first level the Mystic gains the Spell Penetration feat
7th level:
Enhanced Dispelling:
At 7th level the Mystic receives a +2 bonus to all Dispel checks. This includes caster level checks made for the casting of spells such as Break Enchantment
13th level:
Empowered Dispelling: once per day at 13th level the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell that requires a Dispel Check (such as Dispel Magic or Break Enchantment) and automatically succeed at the check. The use of this ability must be announced before the spell is cast.
20th level:
Supreme Dispel: at 20th level the Mystic gains an additional +2 bonus to all dispel checks(this stacks with Enhanced Dispelling). Additionally, once per day the Mystic may cast a single Dispelling Sphere spell as a free action without altering the slot used by the spell.
Duality Sphere
1st Level:
Shield of Faith: at 1st level the Mystic applies her positive Charisma modifier as a bonus to all saving throws against spells and abilities cast or used by beings whose alignment is opposed to your own, and spells with an alignment descriptor opposed to your own alignment
7th level:
Turn Evil/Good: at 7th level, the Mystic gains the ability to turn and destroy (if the Mystic is good), or rebuke and command (if the Mystic is evil) undead creatures. At 13th level the Mystic can also turn evil outsiders (if good) or good outsiders (if evil).
13th level:
Know Alignment: at 13th level, the Mystic always knows the alignment of any being he looks upon. If the being is protected by a spell that shields alignment, the Mystic may make a caster level check with a DC of 11 plus the level of the spell to perceive the beings alignment in spite of the protection
20th level:
At 20th level the Mystic gains the Celestial template, if good, or the Fiendish template, if evil.
Now the Spheres:
Protection Grouping:
0th:
Resistance
1st:
Alarm, Endure Elements, Hold Portal, Mage Armor, Shield, Sanctuary, Protection From Evil/Good, Protection From Arrows
2nd:
Resist Elements, Shield Other, Silence, Arcane Lock, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Negative Energy Protection
3rd:
Invisibility, Glyph of Warding, Protection From Elements, Nondetection, Displacement, Death Ward
4th:
Spell Resistance, Spell Immunity, Minor Globe of Invulnerability, Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement
5th:
Antiplant Shell, Improved Invisibility, Wall Of Force
6th:
Forcecage, Antilife Shell, Forbiddance, Greater Glyph Of Warding, Antimagic Field, Greater Globe Of Invulnerability, Repulsion, Spellturning
7th:
Refuge, Holy/Unholy Aura, Mindblank, Sequester
8th:
Symbol, Prismatic Wall
9th:
Prismatic Sphere, Foresight
Life Sphere:
0th:
Cure Minor Wounds
1st:
Cure Light Wounds, Deathwatch, Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid, Cure Moderate Wounds, Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Endurance, Death Knell, Lesser Restoration, Delay Poison, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Create Food/Water, Cure Serious Wounds, Blindness/Deafness, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Disease, Death Ward
4th:
Neutralize Poison, Restoration, Cure Critical Wounds, Status
5th:
Healing Circle, Polymorph Self
6th:
Heal
7th:
Greater Restoration, Regeneration, Resurrection
8th:
Mass Heal
9th:
True Resurrection, Shapechange
Mind Sphere
0th:
Mage Hand, Detect Poison
1st:
Comprehend Languages, Detect Undead, Detect Secret Doors, Identify, Sleep, Calm Animals, Message
2nd:
Augury, Calm Emotions, Enthrall, Detect Thoughts, Hold Person, Speak With Animals, Charm Person Or Animal, See Invisible
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object, Zone of Truth, Invisibility Purge, Speak With Plants, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
4th:
Divination, Tongues, Suggestion, Arcane Eye, Confusion, Emotion, Locate Creature
5th:
Discern Lies, Sending, Contact Other Plane, True Seeing, Charm Monster, Hold Monster, Phantasmal Killer, Rary’s Telepathic Bond, Telekinesis, Dream/Nightmare, Lesser Geas, Scrying
6th:
Analyze Dweomer
7th:
Insanity, Geas/Quest, Mass Suggestion, Find the Path, Greater Scrying
8th:
Discern Location, Trap the Soul
9th:
Astral Projection, Foresight, Weird
Antilife Grouping:
0th:
Inflict Minor Wounds
1st:
Deathwatch, Inflict Light Wounds
2nd:
Death Knell, Inflict Moderate Wounds
3rd:
Animate Dead, Halt Undead, Inflict Serious Wounds
4th:
Enervation, Inflict Critical Wounds
5th:
Circle Of Doom, Phantasmal Killer
6th:
Circle of Death, Create Undead, Harm
7th:
Control Undead, Finger of Death
8th:
Create Greater Undead
9th:
Energy Drain, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dimension Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Summon Monster 1
2nd:
Rope Trick, Summon Monster 2
3rd:
Blink, Summon Monster 3
4th:
Dimensional Anchor, Dismissal, Summon Monster 4
5th:
Contact Other Plane, Dimension Door, Lesser Planar Binding, Summon Monster 5
6th:
Ethereal Jaunt, Planeshift, Planar Binding, Summon Monster 6, Teleport
7th:
Etherealness, Shadow Walk, Summon Monster 7, Word of Recall
8th:
Greater Planar Binding, Maze, Summon Monster 8, Teleport Without Error
9th:
Astral Projection, Gate, Summon Monster 9
Smiting Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Inflict Light Wounds, Holy Bolt, Magic Weapon, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Inflict Moderate Wounds, Magic Missile
3rd:
Bestow Curse, Blindness/Deafness, Inflict Serious Wounds, Searing Light, Spiritual Weapon, Disruption Blast*
4th:
Contagion, Greater Magic Weapon, Holy Smite/Unholy Blight, Inflict Critical Wounds, Poison
5th:
Circle of Doom, Dispel Evil/Good, Phantasmal Killer, Mage Bolts*
6th:
Circle of Death, Harm
7th:
Finger of Death, Prismatic Spray, Sunbeam
8th:
Sunburst
9th:
Energy Drain, Implosion, Power Word: Kill, Weird
Dispelling Grouping:
0th:
1st:
Remove Fear
2nd:
Calm Emotions, Lesser Restoration, Remove Paralysis
3rd:
Dispel Magic, Remove Curse, Invisibility Purge, Remove Blindness/Deafness
4th:
Break Enchantment, Dismissal, Neutralize Poison, Restoration
5th:
Dispel Evil/Good
6th:
Banishment, Greater Dispelling
7th:
Greater Restoration, Holy/Unholy Word
8th:
Maze
9th:
Imprisonment, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Duality Grouping:
0th:
Light, Disrupt Undead
1st:
Bless/Curse Water, Detect Evil/Good, Holy/Unholy Bolt, Protection from Evil/Good, Holy Bolt*
2nd:
Consecrate/Desecrate, Daylight, Darkness, Death Knell, Magic Circle Against Evil/Good, Undetectable Alignment, Disruption Blast*
3rd:
Animate Dead, Deeper Darkness, Halt Undead, Searing Light
4th:
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
5th:
Atonement, Dispel Evil/Good, Hallow/Unhallow, Lesser Planar Binding, Mark of Justice
6th:
Create Undead, Planar Binding
7th:
Control Undead, Holy/Unholy Aura, Holy/Unholy Word, Sunbeam, Greater Mark Of Justice*
8th:
Create Greater Undead, Greater Planar Binding, Sunburst
9th:
Freedom, Gate, Imprisonment, Soulbind
And the main spell list:
1st:
Alarm
Endure Elements
Entropic Shield
Hold Portal
Protection From Good/Evil
Mage Armor
Holy Bolt*
Shield
Summon Monster 1
Comprehend Languages
Detect Undead
Detect Secret Doors
Identify
Sleep
Message
Magic Weapon
Calm Animals
Cure Light Wounds
Bless/Curse Water
Deathwatch
Detect Evil/Good
Inflict Light Wounds
Remove Fear
Sanctuary
Expeditious Retreat
2nd:
Aid
Augury
Bull's Strength
Cat's Grace
Endurance
Darkness
Daylight
Detect Thoughts
Magic Missile
Death Knell
Delay Poison
Consecrate/Desecrate
Cure Moderate Wounds
Calm Emotions
Enthrall
Inflict Moderate Wounds
Hold Person
Lesser Restoration
Remove Paralysis
Resist Elements
Shield Other
Silence
Speak With Animals
Summon Monster 2
Undetectable Alignment
Charm Person or Animal
Arcane Lock
See Invisible
Misdirection
Spectral Hand
Darkvision
Levitate
Knock
Rope Trick
Whispering Wind
Magic Circle Against Evil/Good
Negative Energy Protection
Protection From Arrows
3rd:
Locate/Obscure Object
Spiritual Weapon
Invisibility
Disruption Blast*
Zone of Truth
Bestow Curse
Continual Flame
Create Food/Water
Cure Serious Wounds
Deeper Darkness
Dispel Magic
Glyph of Warding
Helping Hand
Inflict Serious Wounds
Animate Dead
Invisibility Purge
Protection From Elements
Remove Blindness/Deafness
Blindness/Deafness
Remove Curse
Remove Disease
Searing Light
Speak With Dead
Speak With Plants
Summon Monster 3
Water Breathing
Water Walk
Nondetection
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
Blink
Fly
Gaseous Form
Halt Undead
Displacement
Leomund'd Tiny Hut
Death Ward
4th:
Break Enchantment
Spell Resistance
Cure Critical Wounds
Dimensional Anchor
Holy Smite/Unholy Blight
Contagion
Suggestion
Tongues
Greater Magic Weapon
Dismissal
Divination
Freedom Of Movement
Inflict Critical Wounds
Neutralize Poison
Poison
Restoration
Spell Immunity
Status
Summon Monster 4
Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Stoneskin
Arcane Eye
Locate Creature
Confusion
Emotion
Enervation
5th:
Discern Lies
Antiplant Shell
Sending
Atonement
Mage Bolts*
Circle of Doom
Contact Other Plane(or Commune haven’t decided)
Dispel Evil/Good
Sending
True Seeing
Summon Monster 5
Hallow/Unhallow
Lesser Planar Binding
Charm Monster
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Improved Invisibility
Polymorph Self
Rary's Telepathic Bond
Hold Monster
Wall of Force
Dream/Nightmare
Magic Jar
Telekinesis
Permanency
Mark of Justice
Healing Circle
6th:
Planeshift
Forcecage
Teleport
Animate Objects
Antilife Shell
Ethereal Jaunt
Create Undead
Forbiddance
Greater Dispelling
Greater Glyph of Warding
Harm
Heal
Summon Monster 6
Antimagic Field
Globe of Invulnerability
Repulsion
Planar Binding
Analyze Dweomer
Circle of Death
Spell Turning
7th:
Geas/Quest
Etherealness
Word of Recall
Find the Path
Mass Suggestion
Greater Restoration
Greater Scrying
Holy/Unholy Word
Refuge
Greater Mark of Justice*
Regenerate
Resurrection
Summon Monster 7
Holy/Unholy Aura
Mind Blank
Sunbeam
Sequester
Insanity
Prismatic Spray
Shadow Walk
Finger of Death
Control Undead
8th:
Reverse Gravity
Teleport Without Error
Create Greater Undead
Discern Location
Mass Heal
Summon Monster 8
Symbol
Prismatic Wall
Greater Planar Binding
Maze
Trap the Soul
Demand
Sunburst
Mass Charm
9th:
Astral Projection
Energy Drain
Gate
Implosion
Soul Bind
Summon Monster 9
True Resurrection
Freedom
Imprisonment
Prismatic Sphere
Power Word: Kill
Foresight
Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Weird
Shapechange
Temporal Stasis
Time Stop
And lastly, my new spells:
Mage Bolts
Evocation [Force]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 5
Target: 1 or more creatures or objects no two of which may be more than 15 ft apart
As Magic Missile accept as above, and as follows: each bolt inflicts 2d6+2 points of damage, and each bolt requires a ranged touched attack to hit its target. Alternatively, the caster may choose to discharge the spell as a single bolt doing 10d6 points of damage.
Greater Mark Of Justice
Transmutation
Level: Clr 7, Mys 7
As Mark of Justice, accept that the caster may choose the following affects for the mark to visit on the target: 10d6 points of damage of any type chosen by the caster, stunning for 5d6 rounds, or 2d6 points of Constitution damage. Additionally, these affects take place upon the subject each and every time he attempts to take the prohibited action or actions
Disruption Blast
Evocation
Level: Sor/Wiz 3, Mys 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Close (25 ft +5 ft/2 levels)
Area: Cone
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a blast of intense positive energy. This energy deals 1d4 points of damage per two caster levels (maximum 10d4) to living creatures, but it deals 1d8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10d8) to undead and evil outsiders.
Holy Bolt
Evocation [Good]
Level: Clr 1, Good 1, Mys 1, Wiz/Sorc 2
Components: V, S, DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft +10ft/level)
Target: 1 or more creatures, no two of which can be more than 15 ft apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell creates a bolt of holy energy that speeds from your hand to your targets. You must succeed at a ranged touch attack to hit your targets. Each bolt deals 1d6+1 points of damage, and stuns the target unless they make a successful Fortitude save. Only evil beings and undead are damaged by this spell. You can create one bolt for every two levels of experience, so you have 2 bolts at 3rd level, 3 at 5th etc up to the maximum of 5 bolts at 9th level.
Merlion
05-01-03, 09:30 AM
Heres the Spells Known
Technik4
05-01-03, 10:29 AM
I couldn't get the spells known list, but judging by first level (1 extra spell known over sorc) I think your theme is 1 less spell/day than a sorc, but 1 more spell known. I'll kick this off by saying this isn't wise balance. The bard knows many spells, but can only cast a few. The sorceror knows a few spells, but can cast many. You are eliminating part of the sorceror's lack, thus your class starts off more powerful.
Your class also has equal progression to a wizard (though only with bonus slots, as all casters max their spellcasting stat, this becomes irrelevant).
Then you took the "school specialization" thing and ran with it, creating a specialization concept that also rewards you every 6 levels. Except even non-specialists get rewarded, so there is no reason to be a specialist (except 1 extra spell known, oh wait, they already know plenty and cast almost as much as the sorc, why lose access to some of these great spells?!).
Speaking of spells, as this class is replacing the cleric but is less focused on combat (bad BAB, no armor, lower hp) it deserves its own custom list. Note, I did not say "a list of the wizard's best spells bumped a level ", which is incidentally what that list looks like to me.
A quick "to-fix" list for you:
-Recheck the balance on spells known vs spells per day. The bard and the sorceror both have to make hard choice (the sorceror when levelling up, the bard on a daily basis), the mystic doesnt have.
-Re-adjust the balance on your "sphere" mechanic. I suggest just giving a specific metamagic feat (make the mystic apply it and charge them the level loss on spells). Right now it seems to prestige-classy to me.
-Think long and hard about which wizard spells to let in. I would take the cleric's list, subtract all the spells dealing with melee combat, then add some utility. Right now I guess there is too much utility, and too much totally out of place like Phatasmal Killer.
-Your class has more skill points than any of the core spellcasting classes except druid, who pretty much needs to devote points to wilderness lore and handle animal to be druid-y. Any reason for this bump?
Thats a good start anyway,
Technik
Merlion
05-01-03, 10:12 PM
I couldn't get the spells known list, but judging by first level (1 extra spell known over sorc) I think your theme is 1 less spell/day than a sorc, but 1 more spell known. I'll kick this off by saying this isn't wise balance. The bard knows many spells, but can only cast a few. The sorceror knows a few spells, but can cast many. You are eliminating part of the sorceror's lack, thus your class starts off more powerful
Actualy my starting base was 1 more spell per day than the Wizard, one more spell known than Monte Cook's variant Sorcerer. The Bard is a minor spellcaster. The PHB sorcerer is underpowered. Additionaly, I am not totaly eliminating any of his lack. Also your reasoning is flawed...a class having more of a certain something or being more powerful in a certain area doesnt make that a more powerful class overall. The Sorcerer has far greater access to firepower and several forms of utility than the Mystic. Also remember again that things work differently in my world...in my world sorcerers can do essentialy all the things a mystic can in terms of spells including healing. the Mystic is a better healer and probably better at defense than the Sorcerer, but the Sorcerer is better at damage and most utilities.
(though only with bonus slots, as all casters max their spellcasting stat, this becomes irrelevant).
I disagree with this on a number of levels. What do you mean by "max" their spellcasting stat? If you mean that all casters put their highest starting ability score in their spellcasting ability your mostly right. the large majority do. Some dont however..some opt to put the second score their and the first in Dex or Con. and the Mystic also must have a decent Charisma for their special abilities. Either way even with a Wisdom of 18, thats only bonus 4th level spells. Most are more likely to have a 15 or 16 which is at most bonus 3rd level spells. Most Mystics will be able to cast a single spell per day of a given spell level at the wizard-level for it, for the lower and mid levels. Thats hardly irrelevant. Now if you mean maxing with items well perhaps to an extent. I dont feel that every spellcaster spends all their resources on items to improve their casting stat however. That aside, magic items are not going to be quite as common in my world as in standard DnD anyway. We wont know for sure until its playtested of course though, it might have to be changed. Truth is in standard DnD where magic items are so easy to aquire the difference in spells per day between the wizard and sorcerer...one of the great balance factors between them...becomes quite a bit less.
Then you took the "school specialization" thing and ran with it, creating a specialization concept that also rewards you every 6 levels. Except even non-specialists get rewarded, so there is no reason to be a specialist (except 1 extra spell known, oh wait, they already know plenty and cast almost as much as the sorc, why lose access to some of these great spells?!).
Its called character concept. Roleplaying. Theme. That aside, one extra spell is one extra spell. plus the spellcraft benefits.
That aside it seems rather odd to me that you seem to think all of my work is overpowered...the sort of thing that theirs no "reason not to take" but then this comment seems to say that specialization should give greater benefits than nonspecialization. Truth is, I want the two to be as balanced as possible. I dont want everyone who plays a mystic to automaticaly specialize, or automaticaly not. I want the decsion to be based on taste and character development.
Speaking of spells, as this class is replacing the cleric but is less focused on combat (bad BAB, no armor, lower hp) it deserves its own custom list. Note, I did not say "a list of the wizard's best spells bumped a level ", which is incidentally what that list looks like to me
Again I think you are identifying the Mystic a little to much with the Cleric. It is "replacing" the cleric only in a limited technical sense. I am taking out the Cleric and putting in the Mystic. and the Mystic will be the best healer...well even that isnt entirly 100% true...IMC Druids will have the same access to healing magic as the Mystic so the only real advantage is the casting on the fly...so just dont fall into thinking of the Mystic as some sort of variant cleric.
As to the last part...well you must not be looking very closely. No Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Ice Storm, Melfs Acid Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Cone of Cold, Acid Fog, Delayed Blast Fireball, Invisibility Circle, no Illusions(Besides Invisibility which I am considering taking out...i'm not sure it fits), no Dominate spells, no Incendiary Cloud, no Disintegrate, no Meteor Swarm, no Fire Shield no Otiluke's Sphere spells, no Wall of Fire or Ice, No Horrid Wilting, no Wail of the Banshee, No Passwall, Vision, Legend Lore, Mordenkainen's Sword, Bigby's Hand spells...in short plenty of good wizard spells got left off. I used the Spell Lists for Variant spellcasters section of the DMG as my guide when writing the Mystic spell list. I assigned it strengths and weaknesses. the vast majority of their spells involve defense healing and divination. Their pretty decent at a couple of other forms of utility. the have some offense, litle of it involving damage. they essentialy have no illusion powers. I am very happy with the spell list...I think its perhaps the best part and the one that will need the least work.
Recheck the balance on spells known vs spells per day. The bard and the sorceror both have to make hard choice (the sorceror when levelling up, the bard on a daily basis), the mystic doesnt have
I disagree wth that...even a wizard often has to make hard choices when learning spells...I know, I played one for 15 levels. However, the spells known/per day IS one of the areas most likely to need tweaks after and possibly even before playtesting. I dont think its as bad as you say though.
Re-adjust the balance on your "sphere" mechanic. I suggest just giving a specific metamagic feat (make the mystic apply it and charge them the level loss on spells). Right now it seems to prestige-classy to me.
No to the specfic metamagic feats. To generic, to little flavour, and to much like a lesser version of the wizards bonus feats. I tried to make the first 2 abilities for each sphere about on par with a good feat, the 13th level ability along the lines of a really good feat or a bit above, and I just went all out with the 20th level abilities(also, all classes will be getting special things at 20th level IMC). I think the specialization part is going to work out pretty well. The Gifts themselves might need a little tweaking...playtesting will tell. Many around here complain that base classes give to little reason to stay wth them rather than take a Prestige Class....in a way I am trying to adress that...the Mystic gets benefits at all levels instead of having most of them scrunched up before 6th level or so like most of the base classes.
Think long and hard about which wizard spells to let in. I would take the cleric's list, subtract all the spells dealing with melee combat, then add some utility. Right now I guess there is too much utility, and too much totally out of place like Phatasmal Killer.
Thats essentialy what I did. We just disagree about what constitutes to much utility. Phantasmal Killer is not out of place...most of a Mystic's attack spells are either death spells or alignment related. Their spiritual nature gives them many life and death related powers.
Your class has more skill points than any of the core spellcasting classes except druid, who pretty much needs to devote points to wilderness lore and handle animal to be druid-y. Any reason for this bump?
My campaign will be using Monte Cook's Sorcerer which also has 4 skill points. I will probably be bumping the Wizards as well. I think more skills are rarely a bad idea across the board....they make great roleplaying aids and tools with little chance of negative balance ramifications when used in a manner that fits a groups playstyle.
All of this being said remember in case you missed it...this is a first draft, and a work in progress. Its not perfect. I think its pretty decent. I hope to get to playtest it soon, and I'm sure changes will be made. However I get a somewhat condescending vibe from you. This may well be unintentional but either way I find it a tad...annoying. try to remember that everyone's style of play and concept of balance is different. Rember also that I post rough drafts to recieve ideas and constructive criticism...for my fellow EN worlders to point out mistakes and concerns. your posts have felt more like lectures. Its probably unintentional but I just wanted you to know your coming across that way a tad.
Technik4
05-01-03, 10:42 PM
Its just criticism. I feel you come across in a certain way as well, but there is little sense talking about it. You came to the boards for criticism on your homebrewed mechanics, and I have given rather detailed opinions on what you have. You have the benefit of knowing all the other little things you will change in your campaign, I don't so I try to go by the phb, dmg, and mm. To me, a lot of your stuff seems overpowered but instead of really addressing it you just say "thats how it works in my campaign".
I can only shrug. If you want further help tweaking things, I will try and help. I am not perfect either, but feedback is better than nothing.
I have noticed you have a problem with peoples' "tone" in other posts, really I would just try and take what people are getting at and focus less on the semantics, if someone is replying they are probably just trying to help.
Technik
Merlion
05-01-03, 11:36 PM
Uh huh. well thats another one of those matter of opnion things. Its often diffacult to relate when two people have very different aproachs to this sort of thing.
I realize I know all of the changes I am going to make. l.But I've mentioned a good few of them in threads you've visited and you've seemed to pretty much ignore them. and I have addressed it when you've said a thing is overpowered. usualy I just disagree since most of it just seems about normal to me. Disruption Blast needed a change, and a changed it. but you even came to the conclusion that Mage Bolts is a pretty normal 3rd level spel
Truth is, I think most of this stuff would be pretty balanced...especialy once I can playtest it and get out the bugs...in more mainstream DnD. Once I have fine tuned this class for my own purposes, I may well try and submit an altered version to say Dragon or some such....probably bill it as an additional divine caster or "alternate cleric" and of course it will need substantial change for that.
But many of our differences really have little to do with the stuff relating to my campaign. I'm more interested in flavour than number by number balance for instance. I dont figure out damage ratios and stuff...I leave that sort of thing at the basics...level caps for damage different die types etc. I think theirs a lot of "core" stuff thats so weak theirs no reason for anyone TOO take it...like Sound Burst and Augment Summoning for instance.
Now if you really wanna help me out get a little more specfic. A lot of your statements just seemed pretty far out to me...like saying the spell list is just the best wizard spells bumped up a level. Where exactly is the too much utility? Teleportation? The communication spells?
What sort of specialization mechanic would you implement? How would you do their spell progression? You've done a lot of telling me what I did wrong with no telling me what I've done right or how I should actualy fix any of it. So your right its just criticism...but not really constructive critizism or advice.
Technik4
05-02-03, 03:10 AM
I think generally you are too quick to ignore current spells and embrace the damage die table advice for making new spells. Arguing that lower level cleric spells are too weak is sort of a weak argument, as first of all the spells aren't all that weak, and second those spells belong to the most powerful class in the game. The tables for what a wizard damage spell should do per level don't generally apply to the cleric, except in certain higher level spells, generally speaking.
There is no guideline or table for making feats. Augment Summoning is considered by many to be a pretty good feat for a caster who summons a lot. Personally, I think it is quite good, as adding an extra hit die, bonus to hit, bonus to damage every time you cast a certain spell is a strong bonus. What if there was an Augment Rays which gave a +1 bonus to hit and damage (per die) for any ray spell you cast? Would that be balanced? If so, then I feel Augment Summoning is also balanced, especially because Augment Rays seems overpowered!
As far as your spell list, utility is all well and good, but ask yourself this: "Is there a reason to play specialist wizard X based on the mystic's spell list?". If you can do that for all the specialist wizard types, then thats a good start. For me, eyeballing the list, it seems like a transmuter might as well be a mystic, as most of the spells are there in terms of buffs, and you can pick up healing spells.
Now we come to one of those points where its difficult to give accurate advice. You plan on giving all casters of magic access to healing magic, so it seems the whole lot of spellcasters is pretty muddled. One of the defining differences between arcane magic and divine magic (which I realize you are not using, the division) is that one can heal and one can burn. Generally, wizards enjoy more utility as well. You are blurring the lines which makes it difficult to see why you need all those spellcasters.
It seems like possibly making the sorceror fit your needs would be a better option. Delete the cleric, create the mystic, a cha-using core class which can spontaneously cast most spells from the cleric list with some homebrewed ones and some from the wizard and druid lists. This way you end up with less wis-based (divine magic in regular d&d is defined by the WIS modifier) magic.
I don't think there is room for another progression, personally. As I said in another post this is the balance (between spontaneous casters) Few Known Spells, Many Spells Per Day or Many Known Spells, Few Cast Per Day. There aren't really more variables to throw in there, so by getting rid of the sorceror (who the mystic is very close to as of now) and getting rid of the cleric (who the mystic's spell list is mostly emulating) each class can retain something in a very magic-open environment.
As far as specialization, I would go with the core material (as usual). Clerics don't have specializations, they have domains. Perhaps you could implement domains for mystics, which would give access to some of your homebrewed (powerful, imo) spells. Basically take the spheres and change them into domains (mechanically. you could still call them spheres). This way you could also give them certain benefits for having certain domains, as well as powerful unique spells.
For instance, under this system, a mystic would have to have the "Life" sphere in order to cast healing spells and the "Smite" sphere for access to the good offensive spells. You already have written up groupings of spells, this would cause you to shorten the lists for these (spells not in domains can be taken by any mystic). Further, you could implement a bonus ability for sphere, like with the Life sphere you get Turn Undead as a cleric.
Its hard for me to judge the higher level sphere abilities since you said you planned on doing this for all classes, so its hard for me to see the balance. Also, if you feel it is balanced and are on the playtest stage, then it seems house rules isn't really the forum for you. If you've already made up your mind that it follows the rules in the dmg, and is a good spell for your campaign, then posting here and asking for criticism doesn't make sense.
Anyway, thats my advice. It is probably a little too radical, but I agree we aren't exactly on the same page anyway. I hope everything works out well with your new class and spells.
Technik
Merlion
05-02-03, 09:19 AM
Ok this is much more constructive
I am not sure exactly when I am going to playtest it will probably be a couple of weeks or so. And I will probably do a little more refining of certain points before we move on to that. So I am putting my stuff here to try and get a broad range of opnions and advice and ideas. Now to address what your saying specficaly:
I think generally you are too quick to ignore current spells and embrace the damage die table advice for making new spells. Arguing that lower level cleric spells are too weak is sort of a weak argument, as first of all the spells aren't all that weak, and second those spells belong to the most powerful class in the game. The tables for what a wizard damage spell should do per level don't generally apply to the cleric, except in certain higher level spells, generally speaking.
Well Divine magic of course has its own table in the DMG, and when designing more new Mystic spells I will probably be using both. I DO ignore some current spells. I usualy disregard those I feel are drasticaly underpowered and/or dont relate much to what I am doing as I see it. Now your right about the Cleric being the most powerful class in the game (and I wonder how you feel about that given your focus on balance), but while the Cleric is a big source of material for my Mystic especialy in spell list terms theirs a lot of big differences. the Mystic doesnt get the Clerics inherent combat abilities (Armor, BAB, HD) and they lose a lot of the more combat enhancing related spells( Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor etc), but they get somewhat better attack spells usualy with a narrow range, and more utility spells.
There is no guideline or table for making feats. Augment Summoning is considered by many to be a pretty good feat for a caster who summons a lot. Personally, I think it is quite good, as adding an extra hit die, bonus to hit, bonus to damage every time you cast a certain spell is a strong bonus. What if there was an Augment Rays which gave a +1 bonus to hit and damage (per die) for any ray spell you cast? Would that be balanced? If so, then I feel Augment Summoning is also balanced, especially because Augment Rays seems overpowered!
Actualy Augment Ray would seem underpowered to me since their are only a handful of core ray spells and none of them deal damage...so it basicaly gives you the same bonus as Weapon Focus(Rays). and if you want to increase the DC for the saves of the best of the ray spells, Disintegrate, you've got Spell Focus (Transmutation). Now where I'm going with this is many "magical aproachs" already have a lot of feat support, especialy those involving targeting spells and damage spells. Evocation, Transmutation and Enchantment all benefit enourmously from Spell Focus(and Greater Spell Focus). Damage spells of all sorts benefit from spells such as Empower and Maximize spell. Even protective spells can benefit a lot from Extend Spell(and Persistent Spell). However the Summoning aproach has little support. Yes Extend can increase the duration and Empower/Maximize can increase the number of lesser creatures you can summon...but thats really not much of a benefit. Augment Summoning would be pretty good if you can take it at first level. and the whole deal would be good if their were multiple summoning enhancement feats. and remember it does NOT add an extra Hit Die as you say it adds 1 hit point per hit die, and +1 attack and damage. Now at 1st up through third level or so this would be decent. but you cant take it until 3rd level. and by 7th level or so its almost useless...the +1 attack and damage is essentialy meaningless...and the hit points are not that great especialy with the so so creatures you can summon with standard summoning. Now how would you feel if my Augmented Summoning was the same as Augment Summoning, but attainble at 1st level, and the others the same(a logical extension chain with each previous as a prerequisite?)
As far as your spell list, utility is all well and good, but ask yourself this: "Is there a reason to play specialist wizard X based on the mystic's spell list?". If you can do that for all the specialist wizard types, then thats a good start. For me, eyeballing the list, it seems like a transmuter might as well be a mystic, as most of the spells are there in terms of buffs, and you can pick up healing spells.
Here I think our difference in aproach comes in. For me the most important factor overall, generaly, in most choices and especialy choice of class, is flavour and character concept. now obviously theirs some overlap here. But take the standard wizard and Sorcerer. Given the Sorcerers spell list and casting method/spells per day, is their any reason to play any sort of specialist wizard? You can just play a Sorcerer and pick mostly spells from that school and take Spell Focus, and you'll be able to cast more of them per day, without having to prepare them.
I'm not sure what you mean about the Transmuter and buffs. Wizards dont really get many buffs...the basic Ability Score increasers(which all spellcasters get at least some of...including the Druid IMC)...Haste(which the Mystic doesnt get)...Keen Edge...etc. Now of course the Mystic gets some Cleric-y buffs but of course they are focused mainly on healing defense and divination. What buffs do you think are excessive? I also made a point of giving them minimal form changing, and only self-changing...they get Polymorph Self(as a 5th level spell) and Shapechange. I intentionaly left out Polymorph Other and Poly Any Object. And I bumped the teleportation up a level. Hmm...I might consider making Rope Trick 3rd level tho it can be abused pretty well...
Now we come to one of those points where its difficult to give accurate advice. You plan on giving all casters of magic access to healing magic, so it seems the whole lot of spellcasters is pretty muddled. One of the defining differences between arcane magic and divine magic (which I realize you are not using, the division) is that one can heal and one can burn. Generally, wizards enjoy more utility as well. You are blurring the lines which makes it difficult to see why you need all those spellcasters.
I think this is another major source of our miscommunication. Yes, I am blurring the lines. Its quite intentional. I dont "need" all those spellcasters. I WANT all those spellcasters. I dont feel that theirs just 2 magical roles that need filling. Because beside magical effect, their is also magical aproach. Now let me clarify something...I try to use the mechanics of this game to reflect fantasy litertaure and mythology(or at least my favorites there of
and in most such stories, magic is magic. Different types of magic have a lot to do with aproach and somewhat to do with effect. Theirs certain things almost anyone who can use magic can do to a lesser or greater extent. Attack, defend, heal. their are eceptions to this of course but its sort of what I'm going with. Any magical type can do just about anything IMC but some are better at some things than others. Wizards and Sorcerers are best by far at offense especialy damaging offense(as oposed to insta death etc) and probably roughly tied with Druids for mastery of Elemental Magic. Mystics and Druids are best at healing, and Mystics are the masters of Defense. They can all do some of everything but the difference and the interest comes in aproach and execution. Wizards and Sorcerers are much the same as in standard...Wizards the tomes and learned magic, Sorcerers inborn/bloodline based, the Mystic with their medititation and observation(in aproach I see them as a bit like the magical equivalant of the Monk) and Druids drawing power from life and nature. When Arcana Unearthed comes out if this campaign gets off the ground and is still running I will probably be implementing a lot of its mechanics especialy as far as magic...unified spell list etc. What I am doing is sort of a DnD version of that. So I have no desire to delete any of the other spellcasting classes. the Cleric was the only one that didnt fit into my world...plus I feel that the standard DnD Cleric is overpowered and since what little of the concept I like can be emulated by the Mystic(or in truth, anyone) their was no reason to go to the trouble of revising it. However, your ideas would work well if I was going for something like you describe...something more minimalist. They'd be perfect if you wanted to just tweak basic DnD a little and narrow the focus of the magic users..but my goal is to broaden both focus and aproach.As far as specialization, I would go with the core material (as usual). Clerics don't have specializations, they have domains. Perhaps you could implement domains for mystics, which would give access to some of your homebrewed (powerful, imo) spells. Basically take the spheres and change them into domains (mechanically. you could still call them spheres). This way you could also give them certain benefits for having certain domains, as well as powerful unique spells.
I'm not sure I entirly understand what your describing. are you saying remove a lot of spells from the base spell list and make them avaible only via the spheres? Thats a good idea although it would require a pretty massive overhaul. Also as I said I like most of whats in the spell list and want all Mystics to have access to most of it, for instance your example of having to have the Life sphere to cast healing spells...healing spells are one of the main focuses of the class, in any form. However as you say it would be useful for some spells I might want to create to have them avaible only via the spheres and not on the standard list. I will definitly keep that in mind. I do want to try and preserve a specialzation mechanic as oposed to a cleric-like automatic "domain" sort of thing. I have always liked the idea of spellcasters focusing specialy on a certain type of magic. However this is an area that may well need work, and I may end up implementing a system more simliar to domains so I would like more detail and clarification of your ideas.
Its hard for me to judge the higher level sphere abilities since you said you planned on doing this for all classes, so its hard for me to see the balance
This is very true. Havent even come up with the 20th level abilities for the other classes(well, the Monk's is built in...incdentaly what do you think of renaming the Monk the Adept(no aept NPC class IMC). I just kind of figure that a character should get something pretty big for finishing out the standard progression
Merlion
05-05-03, 09:34 AM
Ok heres Spells Per Day again so maybe it will be easy to find..
Merlion
05-05-03, 09:35 AM
and Spells Known[/sblock]
[sblock]
My Mystic Theurge Variant!
Angcuru
04-15-03, 05:03 PM
http://www.angelfire.com/hero/madius/Mystic_Theurge_Variant.doc
I've been looking for something like this for my upcoming campaign, and I think it works out very well. I changed it so that the Mystic Theurge is a base/core/non-PrC class, and is more balanced.
Moe Ronalds
04-15-03, 05:18 PM
Well, what I see is a character that can get 20 wizard spell levels, 5 cleric spell levels, all the wizard special abilities, a few clerical ones, AND a better HD than the wizard. IOW, I don't see a downside.
seasong
04-15-03, 05:19 PM
Link for the lazy: Angcuru's Mystic Theurge variant (word doc) (http://www.angelfire.com/hero/madius/Mystic_Theurge_Variant.doc).
Angcuru
04-15-03, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Moe Ronalds
Well, what I see is a character that can get 20 wizard spell levels, 5 cleric spell levels, all the wizard special abilities, a few clerical ones, AND a better HD than the wizard. IOW, I don't see a downside.
Who ever said I designed it to have a downside. I'm asking for feedback, I.E. suggestions for changes.
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 05:40 PM
My changes would be:
HD: d4.
Lose the armor and shield proficiencies, but keep simple weapons.
Special Abilities:
Level 1 - Domains.
Level 2 - Summon Familiar.
Level 3 - Craft Single-Use Item (allows you to create potions, scrolls or other use once and throw away magic items, which replaces Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll and Craft Talisman IMC, it's in Green Ronin's Plot & Poison Drow book).
Level 5 - Turn Undead.
Level 10 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 15 Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 20 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 06:06 PM
Here's my modified version that spreads its abilities out over several levels, adds domain powers and reduces Turn Undead effectiveness while eliminating spontaneous casting.
Mystic Theurge Variant (Core Class) By Jeremy Summers
(Iron_Chef variant)
Key Abilities: High Wisdom and Intelligence Scores are essential. High dexterity is useful since this class prefers to wear light armor, if any at all. A high constitution is useful, as they are not very sturdy.
Hit Dice: d4.
Abbreviation: MTv
Class Skills:
The (MTv’s) class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (any/all) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Intelligence Modifier) x 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int Modifier.
Class Features:
Armor and Weapon Proficiency: (MTv)s are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any armor nor with shields.
If the MTv chooses War as one of his Domains, she gains proficiency with her deity’s favored weapon, be it simple, martial or exotic, as well as the Weapon Focus Feat for that Weapon.
Spells: MTv's are capable of casting both divine and arcane spells, though neither will be as powerful as those of a Wizard or Cleric of equal level. At first level, the MTv gains spells per level as both a Wizard and a Cleric, and every level thereafter she can choose to increase her spells per day as either a Cleric or a Wizard; and every 5 levels, (starting with 5th) the caster gains spells per day as both Cleric and Wizard. However, no matter how many spells per day the caster has in either divine or arcane magic, their (MTv) level is used to determine caster level for both Divine and Arcane magic. Intelligence modifier is used in relation to Arcane Spells, and Wisdom in relation to divine.
One downside to this is that the caster must take time at the beginning of each day to both study/memorize her arcane spells and pray for divine spells.
Familiar: At 3rd level, an MTv can summon a familiar in the same fashion that a wizard can.
Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful Spells: Identical to the Cleric, though this also applies to arcane magic.
Turn or Rebuke Undead: As Cleric, using the MTv level as their cleric level.
Bonus Languages: The MTv’s list of bonus languages includes Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Draconic, Ignan, Infernal, and Terran in addition to those available due to race.
Craft Single-Use Item: At 3rd level, the Mtv can create any one-
shot magic item (potion, scroll, talisman).
Bonus Feats: Every five levels, the MTv chooses a divine, item creation, or metamagic feat.
Base
Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special Spells Per Day
1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Domains, Turn Undead As LVL 1 Wizard & Cleric
2 +1 +0 +0 +3 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
3 +1 +1 +1 +3 Summon Familiar +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
4 +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
5 +2 +1 +1 +4 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
6 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
7 +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
8 +4 +2 +2 +6 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
9 +4 +3 +3 +6 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
10 +5 +3 +3 +7 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
11 +5 +3 +3 +7 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
12 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
13 +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
14 +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
15 +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
16 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
17 +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
18 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
19 +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 +1 LVL Divine or Arcane
20 +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Bonus Feat +1 LVL Divine & Arcane
Going Epic:
The (MTv) when reaching epic levels continues to gain spells as normal, except when spells per day reach 20th Cleric, no more spells per day are gained(as normal for an epic cleric) and when spells per day reach 20th Wizard, the (MTv) can gain 2 spells per day of any level, as is normal for an epic Wizard.
Epic Bonus Feat list is a combination of those for Cleric and Wizard.
Angcuru
04-15-03, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Iron_Chef
My changes would be:
HD: d4.
Lose the armor and shield proficiencies, but keep simple weapons.
Special Abilities:
Level 1 - Domains.
Level 2 - Summon Familiar.
Level 3 - Craft Single-Use Item (allows you to create potions, scrolls or other use once and throw away magic items, which replaces Brew Potion, Scribe Scroll and Craft Talisman IMC, it's in Green Ronin's Plot & Poison Drow book).
Level 5 - Turn Undead.
Level 10 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 15 Bonus wizard or cleric feat
Level 20 - Bonus wizard or cleric feat
That sounds pretty good, actually, I don't know about the Craft Single-Use Item, but I think I'll just mess around with this a bit.
Tarrasque Wrangler
04-15-03, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Iron_Chef
Abbreviation: MTv
I want Iron Chef's . . . I want Iron Chef's MTv!
(all apologies to Dire Straits)
I'd been toying with my own MT-like core class long before Mystic Theurge came along. At the time, I considered it a sorcerer variant, playing off that little tidbit under the Sorcerer description that said they might have access to non-standard spells. Basically, it's spell progression was similar to the Bard's, and maxed out at 6 levels of spells. It allowed the PC to choose spells from the Sor/Wiz and Cleric spell lists, and cast as a sorcerer. You didn't get domains, but you got bonus feats at 2, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20th levels that could be spent on metamagic, item creation, or divine feats. You did get turning at 1st level, but it only went up every other level after that. So you ended up with better and more flexible feats than a wizard, simple weapons like a sorcerer, but your spells looked like a 12th/12th wiz/clr. I didn't think anyone would play it, and never introduced it.
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by Angcuru
That sounds pretty good, actually, I don't know about the Craft Single-Use Item, but I think I'll just mess around with this a bit.
Feel free to change it to Scribe Scroll or any Item Creation feat, if you prefer.
Iron_Chef
04-15-03, 10:48 PM
I changed my variant (above) as follows:
Level 1 - Domains, Turn Undead
Level 2 - Removed Summon Familiar
Level 3 - Changed to Summon Familiar
Level 5 - Changed to Bonus Feat
Otherwise, everyrthing is the same. Opinions?
Angcuru
04-16-03, 01:27 PM
looks like we've got this thing done.
I think It'd be better as:
1- Summon Familiar or Turn Undead
2- Summon Familiar or Turn Undead
3- Scribe Scroll
this is what I'm keeping it as, since it allows for flexibility In the early levels, without overpowering the class at low levels.
Gez
04-16-03, 01:52 PM
You should have put this here (http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=45).[/sblock]
[sblock]The Mystic Theurge - Ray Silver-style
Isida Kep'Tukari
04-05-03, 09:21 AM
Ok, this Prestige Class has garnered more attention than any I've seen, which means that it probably should be "fixed." After reviewing several alternate spell progressions and coming up with some ways to add some flavor to this class, I present to you my version of the Mystic Theurge. Comments are always appreciated!
Note: As I'm a big Forgotten Realms fan, I'm going to use Azuth, the Lord of Spells, for the particular church that the Theurge belongs to. Please feel free to substitute in the god of magic for your world wherever such references are made.
The Mystic Theurge - Ray Silver-style
The Mystic Theurge is living proof of the will of the Lord of Spells. Many have tried to combine the knowledge of the arcane with the blessings of the divine, but most have found they can only progress so far in each path, and that their divided attention limits their progress in both. The Mystic Theurge, through diligent study of both paths, and experimentation into the workings of magic, is able to progress much farther than any other.
Such great power comes at a price. Those who have given their lives up to magic of both divine and arcane are considered touched by Azuth. He pays special attention to them, as they are considered to be blessed by Him. Mystic Theurges are prone to debilitating visions directly from Azuth of tasks they must undertake for the Lord of Spells. No Theurge dares not act on these visions, for they find their magic slipping from their grasp if they hesitate.
Mystic Theurges are so steeped in magic that it begins to have a profound effect on their health and well-being. Their bodies become fueled by their magic, and casting too many spells too quickly can leave the Theurge exhausted, wounded, or both.
Most Mystic Theurges are wizard/clerics, as the more independent-minded sorcerers infrequently give themselves to the church as a priest.
Hit Die: d4.
Requirements
To qualify to become a mystic theurge, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 10 ranks.
Feats: Skill Focus: Knowledge (arcana), Skill Focus: Knowledge (religion), any two metamagic feats.
Spells: Able to cast 3rd-level divine spells and 3rd-level arcane spells.
Class Skills
The mystic theurge's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). See Chapter 4 of the Player's Handbook for skill descriptions.
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Lvl...BAB...Fort...Ref...Will...Spells per Day
1st...+0....+0....+0....+2...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class, Visions of the Divine, Blood of the Arcane
2nd...+1...+0....+0....+3...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
3rd...+1...+1....+1....+3...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
4th...+2...+1....+1....+4...+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
5th...+2...+1....+1....+4...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class 6th...+3...+2....+2....+5...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class
7th...+3...+2....+2....+5...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
8th...+4...+2....+2....+6...+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
9th...+4...+3....+3....+6...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
10th..+5..+3....+3....+7...+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class/+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class
Class Features
All of the following are features of the mystic theurge prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Mystic theurges gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.
Spells per Day: When a new mystic theurge level is gained at levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 10, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in any one arcane spellcasting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class and any one divine spellcasting class she belonged to previously. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, bard or assassin abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of mystic theurge to the level of whatever other arcane spellcasting class and divine spellcasting class the character has, then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly.
If a character had more than one arcane spellcasting class or more than one divine spellcasting class before she became a mystic theurge, she must decide to which class she adds each level of mystic theurge for the purpose of determining spells per day.
At levels 4 and 8, the mystic theurge only gains a level of divine casting, at and levels 2 and 6, she only gains a level of arcane casting. She does not gain any additional abilities from that class (increased chance of turning or familiar abilities, etc).
Visions of the Divine: The Mystic Theurge is subject to visions directly from Azuth. While the Theurge is steeped in magic, such direct thoughts from a god are overwhelming and usually painful. When a Theurge is struck by a vision, he is stunned for 1d4 rounds, then suffers a -2 to Dex and Str for 3d4 minutes. These visions are of tasks that the Theurge must complete or tell others so that they may be acted upon. The Theurge cannot induce a vision (though she could cast divination spells to help clarify a vision).
Failure to act upon a vision within an appropriate time frame will result in the Theurge losing access to her highest level spells in both her arcane and divine levels for one day. Examples of visions could be anything from bandits attacking a petitioner to the temple as he makes his way home (requiring the Theurge to act within hours), or that an enemy is about to cast a harmful spell at his comrades (requiring the Theurge to act within seconds).
The visions (and penalties) are up to the DM. A Theurge typically gets a vision at least every week, and often get nervous if they do not have one, seeing that as a sign that they did not accomplish their latest task to Azuth's satisfaction.
Blood of the Arcane: A Mystic Theurge's body is entirely soaked through with magical power. Their very health depends upon their magic. Loosing too much of it into the world at once can cause a Theurge to become tired, wounded, or worse. If a Theurge casts more than 5 spells (of any type) in a row, he must make a Fort save against DC 20 or be fatigued. Every five spells cast, he must make the same Fort save. If he is already fatigued, he becomes exhausted, if he is exhausted, he starts taking 2d4 damage for every failed role, or 1d4 on a made role.
Jeph
04-05-03, 05:18 PM
Looks pretty good, IMHO . . . Visions of the Divine could be a quite useful plot device. In Blood of the Arcane, what does it mean by "In a row"? In consecutive rounds, or without resting for a few hours, or without recharging spells, or what?
Isida Kep'Tukari
04-05-03, 09:04 PM
Consecutive rounds I think. Though I'm probably going to change that. I'm mostly just fiddling around with the Theurge to see what would work the best. If anyone else has ideas on how they'd change the Theurge, please post them.
Anabstercorian
04-06-03, 01:24 AM
To be honest, I think that the Mystic Theurge is very close to balanced as it is, so I'm not totally sure about this. I think you may have removed just a smidgen too much - Maybe add one more level of dual progression.
Jeph
04-06-03, 01:34 PM
Or maybe another neat (but not terribly powerful) ability?[/sblock]
I fear that thread may have been lost to the annals of time...
can't help you with the Wizard Specialist base classes however. I could recommend damion W's excellent Elemental Paladins, Barbarians, Ranger, and Monk classes. Other than that, no bones dude, sorry.
Land Outcast
Explorer
Hey! finding bones to gnaw upon after a some minor apocalipsis is reason of joy.
thanks again for the help.
thanks again for the help.
