Sell me on: Warhammer 40K RPG

[Kasbark]

I'm a big fan of the warhamemr 40K universe, and since my current pathfinder campaign is wrapping up after a year and a half I would like to run a game in that universe next.

The issue however is, that i've only tried one WH40K RPG, the old percentage based one, and i didn't like it very much. I know several new systems have come out since then, and my hope is someone here can give me a bit of guidance on which one to go for.

We'll be playing humans in the campaign, so the system has to support non space marine characters (i'm not quite sure yet if they'll be playing imperial guardsmen, PDF troopers who get mixed up in some inquisitor business, or perhaps some rogue traders)

As i said we're currently playing Pathfinder, and while we like it quite a bit, I would like something slightly less rules bloated.
I'm a big fan of Apocalypse World, but it dosen't have to be as rules light as that (though i wouldn't mind it at all)



So, which system would you go with for a campaign set in the 40K universe? What's the pros and cons of the ones currently available?

Thanks for any answers?

 

[Bagpuss]

The issue however is, that i've only tried one WH40K RPG, the old percentage based one, and i didn't like it very much. I know several new systems have come out since then, and my hope is someone here can give me a bit of guidance on which one to go for.

I'm confused, as far as I'm aware FFG Warhammer 40K RPG line is the first to come out. Originally with Dark Heresy (about an Inquistor Retinue), then Rogue Trader (about the crew of a Rogue Trader vessel), then Deathwatch (about Space Marines), then I think Only War (about Imperial Guard) and most recently Black Crusade (about playing Chaos characters).... I think someone is bound to correct me if I'm wrong or missed one.

But they all use the same d% based system. Are you looking for an non-official system that you could use with the W40K setting, or which of the offical ones would best suit (in which case it sounds like Only War from your description)?

 

[delericho]

I'm a big fan of the warhamemr 40K universe, and since my current pathfinder campaign is wrapping up after a year and a half I would like to run a game in that universe next.

First question - do you really need a dedicated system? Can you not adapt "Savage Worlds", or something similar?

The issue however is, that i've only tried one WH40K RPG, the old percentage based one, and i didn't like it very much.

I'm afraid they're all pretty much of a muchness. The trappings are different, but the system is basically the same each time. So, if you didn't like one, chances are you won't like any others.

(That said, the newer games do clean up the system quite a bit. So if your objection was to specific bad bits of the rules, you might be okay. But if you just didn't like the way the percentiles play, or something similarly systematic, stay away.)

We'll be playing humans in the campaign, so the system has to support non space marine characters (i'm not quite sure yet if they'll be playing imperial guardsmen, PDF troopers who get mixed up in some inquisitor business, or perhaps some rogue traders)

For the Guardsmen or the PDF troopers, you probably want "Only War", which is the most recently-released one. For the Inquisitor's retinue, you want "Dark Heresy"... but that's probably the one you tried and didn't like.

I'm confused, as far as I'm aware FFG Warhammer 40K RPG line is the first to come out. Originally with Dark Heresy (about an Inquistor Retinue), then Rogue Trader (about the crew of a Rogue Trader vessel), then Deathwatch (about Space Marines), then I think Only War (about Imperial Guard) and most recently Black Crusade (about playing Chaos characters).... I think someone is bound to correct me if I'm wrong or missed one.

Yes, but only slightly. "Black Crusade" came out before "Only War".

 

[Kasbark]

Thanks for the advice!

I must have been Dark Heresy we played i guess. If the newer books are the same system with different trappings i think we'll be better off using a more generic system retrofitted to WH40K.

 

[Baron Greystone]

I'd be curious to know what other systems you'd find to be a good fit. What game features are required for that 'universe.' And a good source or two for comprehensive fluff.

I have DH and RT and found the system awkward. I like the fluff but I'm only a very casual fan, and we need some reference material.

 

[Mike Eagling]

First question - do you really need a dedicated system? Can you not adapt "Savage Worlds", or something similar?

Yeah, this is likely the way I would go. The WH40K universe is so bombastic I imagine a pulp-y system would work quite well.

 

[GhostShip Blue]

Issue with adapting something to handle the mechanics is that 40K IS it's fluff. Without it, any system will do, but so much of the fluff is presented in the rules that to keep it feeling like 40K you'd need the books anyway. Once you've bought them for the information, you have the system laying right there and you don't have to convert a hundred Traits and Talents to the target system. No trying to figure out if a 45 BS skill (that is given a lot of bonuses) is an 18 DEX or d10 Agility and Bonuses to Shooting.

Now, I'm NOT a fan of the FFG percentile system, but I'm less of a fan of unnecessary weeks worth of conversion - but, if one of you intrepid gamers wants to do the lifting I'd be happy to see it under SW, FATE or Gumshoe.

 

[tomBitonti]

One thing about 40K (and the variants, of which there are a few: Rogue Trader, Deathwatch, Dark Heresy, Only War, Black Crusade), is that the percentile system is very much not a D20 scaled up. There is still an aspect of having a target number to hit (although, the goal is to roll less than the target, so lower targets are harder). The big new mechanic is that for many rolls, each multiple of 10 by which you beat the target number gives you a degree of success. (And each multiple of 10 by which you missed the target gives you a degree of failure.) That will often adjust the result, for example, by adding damage for additional degrees of success, or adding cases of terrible mishaps if there are too many failures.

I haven't had a chance to try this in actual play, but the feel is somewhat different than a straight up roll to hit a target AC, be-it on a D20 or a D100.

Also, the granularity is such that the scale is about 10x too large, as major increments are in multiples of 10. This is compensated for by having some additional variation in the detail, for example, fitting in a smallish range for weapon jams.

Other important details are particular mechanics for Fate, Insanity, and Corruption, and details for critical hits. The game expects players to be horribly maimed and receive cybernetic prosthesis (for some this is looked on as a blessing), while slowly going insane, while fighting against an unstoppable march of corruption. These are intrinsic to the game. They give the game a bit of grit, but mostly you accept it as very dark humor (or find a different game).

One issue of the game is that the opponents have a bit of sameness once you learn the background. Orcs, Eldar, Necrons, Genestealers, Tau, Demons, Heretics, Psychers, Chaos Cultists, and Traitor Space Marines appear in profusion, but without offering very much expansion on the basic game cannon. There are a few supplements which provide new enemies, but these are mostly on the fringe of the system.

Worth mentioning: The book and writing quality is top-notch, in all of art, writing, and production quality.

Thx

TomB

 

[delericho]

Issue with adapting something to handle the mechanics is that 40K IS it's fluff.

That's true. But presumably, if they're already fans, it's likely that they have experience with the fluff through the miniatures wargame, the novels, the video games, or White Dwarf. Certainly, I found those, and the Lexicanum to be far better resources than the "Black Crusade" core rulebook anyway - the latter had to cover so much ground that it could barely touch on any of it.

 

[delericho]

And a good source or two for comprehensive fluff.

I would certainly be interested in this as well - I mentioned the Lexicanum in another post, and have found it very useful. But "Black Crusade" has proven to be very popular in our game group (it's one of a few games where I can basically be certain of getting a group together - Star Wars and Serenity/Firefly being the others). Problem is, everyone in our group knows rather more about the setting than I do, which makes it somewhat difficult for me to run a really compelling game in the setting!

(Thus far, I've done okay by sticking with pre-gen adventures, going to very out-of-the-way corners of the setting, or sticking with those areas I do know something about. But you can only bluff for so long...)