Sense Motive = passive?

[houlette]

This has probably already been asked long ago, but I couldn't find an answer in the official faq. My question is this: is the Sense Motive skill a passive or active skill? That is, does a player say that he's going to try to sense the motive of an NPC, or does the DM do a Sense Motive check for the player when an NPC is trying to Bluff him/her?

I have the same question with regard to Diplomacy, I guess.

rth

 

[The Souljourner]

Sense Motive should almost always be passive. It's not like you have to concentrate to figure it out, you just kinda sense it. If the player has to say "hey, I want to use sense motive to see if this guy is lying" then you're not doing your job as the DM (or you are, and your players don't realize it).

Diplomacy is different, however. You can't just sit back and let diplomacy happen. You have to be actively doing something. That being said, the DM should still make the roll and just tell you how the other party reacts. You shouldn't necessarily need to tell the DM to make a diplomacy roll, since you should be describing your diplomatic actions, and the DM should take the cue to make the roll. But it sometimes helps to remind the DM that you have certain skills.

-The Souljourner

 

[Drawmack]

Actually I play it that sence motive must be stated. I view it as paying extra attention to the person as opposed to paying casual attention.

 

[kreynolds]

Actually I play it that sence motive must be stated. I view it as paying extra attention to the person as opposed to paying casual attention.

Same here.

 

[The Souljourner]

Huh, ok. I guess it's up to the DM then. I always thought of it as a sort of a Spot Lie type of thing rather than a Search for Lie type of thing... if you know what I mean. I guess it could go either way.

-The Souljourner

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Actually, everyone's right.

Check out the skill:

Sense Motive
Check: A successful check allows the character to avoid being bluffed. The character can also use the skill to tell when something is up (something odd is going on that the character were unaware of) or to assess someone's trustworthiness. Trying to gain information with this skill takes at least 1 minute, and the character could spend a whole evening trying to get a sense of the people around the character.

So, you've got two passive uses for Sense Motive:
1) If another character is trying to bluff him.
2) When something odd is going on that the character is unaware of. The DM would make a roll.

And one active use for Sense Motive:
1) To assess someone's trustworthiness.


Isn't it nice when everyone's right?

 

[maddman75]

IMC - if you don't suspect something is up, there is no need for a bluff roll. I for one don't whip out the D20 every time an NPC talks (otherwise whenever you do the PCs will know that the guy is lying). Sense Motive should be active for PCs.

I only use bluff when someone is sensing motive. Characters don't announce they are going to bluff, they just roleplay. If the excrement starts getting a little thick, I'll ask for a bluff and roll the NPC's SM. Works rather well.

 

[houlette]

Aha.

Lots of good answers.

I think I like your breakdown, Lucius. In particular, I like passive SM checks to allow PCs to see through NPC bluffs because 1) I'm not necessarily a subtle enough actor to accurately represent an NPC with a high Bluff skill, and 2) it seems like the PC's SM skill should allow the character to be better at detecting bluffs than the player might actually be in real life.

 

[mkletch]

There is basically the instantaneous, passive version (reacting to a bluff), or the 1-minute active version. It's right there in the skill.

-Fletch!