Separate rules for PCs, monsters and NPCs

[ExploderWizard]

I really like being able to design NPCs the same way I design PCs.

If the NPCs are adventurers with classes like PCs then sure. I also like designing other NPCs more freeform without a class or official build process getting in the way.

For example I could design a local hunter/woodsman without having to create a ranger adventurer. The guy might be an expert tracker and archer, able to attack as a level X fighter with a bow, but still be a regular guy with maybe 6-7 hit points.

 

[Alzrius]

And for those that want them like PCs, well, all those rules will already be there for PCs.

That alone won't be enough if monsters and NPCs use different enough stats. I remember trying to add PC options to monsters - not really monstrous monsters, but things like kobolds - in 2E, and it was a headache and a half. You needed a specialized sourcebook (The Complete Book of Humanoids) to even make the attempt.

I don't want to go back to those days. I really, really want all characters, be they PC, NPC, monster or whatever, to use the same rules.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

If "monsters" are designed differently than "characters", then nothing stops you from designing an NPC either way. And no matter how simple you make characters, if they have any customization at all, the potential is there for overkill--whether random orc #3 with a bow, a shopkeeper, etc. So having this difference provides something highly useful that you simply cannot get any other way.

That said, the real key to this version, I think, is the nice side effect of having different levels of complexity for building/running the game. That shopkeeper could be built as a "monster"--quickly that way. Or it could be built as a "character" with a lot of options ignored--gnome wizard 1 + "merchant" theme (perhaps designed by you) and/or a couple of relevant "skills". Or maybe the base is simply a gnome commoner with some extra Int or Wis or Cha + "general dry goods merchant".

The stuff that is there to make PC customization as involved or not as you want, also means that the DM has multiple options for picking the base and combining that with options.

 

[Dausuul]

I really like being able to design NPCs the same way I design PCs.

I can't imagine that the game would prevent this. You can always pretend you're making a PC, then use those stats for an NPC.

Of course, in my ideal game, making a PC is so quick and easy that there's no need to simplify the process for NPCs. But failing that, a stripped-down NPC system is good.

That alone won't be enough if monsters and NPCs use different enough stats. I remember trying to add PC options to monsters - not really monstrous monsters, but things like kobolds - in 2E, and it was a headache and a half. You needed a specialized sourcebook (The Complete Book of Humanoids) to even make the attempt.

...Although this is a fair point. It would be cool to be able to seamlessly merge PC abilities with NPC stat blocks, a la "monsters with class levels" in 3E. It's low on my priority list--4E has only a crude approximation, and I've seldom had occasion to use it--but it's what we in the software biz call a "nice to have."

 

[Bedrockgames]

for what its worth designing 4e NPCs was a fun exercise , and it still had that "build" feel to it.

For me it is more about consistency between pcs and npcs. I like my 10th level wizrds for example to have access to the same powers as a 10 level pc wizard. I like whenpcs and npcs operate on the same principles like this.

 

[Cadfan]

I can't imagine that the game would prevent this. You can always pretend you're making a PC, then use those stats for an NPC.

Well, they could make it impossible by including certain types of defensive roll systems. If PCs have offensive stats that need to be rolled versus NPC defensive targets, and if NPCs have offensive targets that need to be resisted by PC defensive stats, it would be extremely hard to build PCs and NPCs the same way.