Serious Design Question

[Reynard]

On my drive home today, I started (for some reason or another) to think about WFRP and how it relates to the Prestige Class concept in 3e. Then ofcourse, the "basic classes" presented in d20 Modern came to mind. Suddenly, ideas were percolating. Now, I know folks around here have likely discussed these issues (or variations thereon) in the past, but I trsut the EN boarders to help out.

I am looking for serious design advice on the idea of building a multi-tiered class system designed to function as a sort of limit break between character types (by that I mean Extras vs NPCs vs PCs).

So here is what I have so far: There are five or six Mundane Classes, which are essentially variations on the NPC classes in the DMG. However, Mundane Classes are beefed up justy a little so that each level counts as a "full" level when determining ELs and so on. However, Mundane Classes have only 5 levels. This is in place to avoid the 20th Level Commoner problem: I a character is going to be higher than 5th level, they are not going to be Mundane. (Of course, one could concievably multiclass between all the classes and be a 20th level entirely Mundane Character...) What should those few classes be (assuming a sort of classic D&D kind of setting)?

Of course, these classes would have to lead somewhere for PCs, so next we have Heroic Classes. These are, for the most part, the core classes of the PHB (perhaps pumped up a little here and there). A character could concievably remain with a Heroic Class all the way to 20th (or beyond), or move on to a Prestige Class. What i wonder here is how much of what does a Mundane character need to qualify for any of the Heroic Classes? When should they be able to do it (3rd? 4th? 5th?)

As for restige Class, I want this system to really push the idea that Prestige Classes are not just careers, but ways of life. Some Prestige Classes, as written, might actually qualify as Heroic lasses. What I mean are the Prestige Classes that imply membership or something otherwise special about the character beyond their stats.

Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[CRG]

Some Prestige Classes, as written, might actually qualify as Heroic lasses

Must....resist...urge...to....comment....on...spellchecker....visualizations....too....amusing....

 

[starwolf]

If it's not Scottish it's ****

Hmmm, I think a spell checker would have missed that one.....lasses I believe is a a recognized word.


edit: would you believe that the spell checker missed belive?

 

[Duncan Haldane]

well, I didn't notices "lasses" (my eye had started to skip text by then), but I did notice "justy" and "restige"

Duncan

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

I had a similar idea once, and I think you have organized it very well. Especially about eliminating 20th level commoners. They can be used if you are carefull, especially the aristocrate, but the 20th level farmer has always brought some very KoDT images to my mind. Begger mobs, *shudder*.

Think about eliminating the multi classing XP hit, unless you are taking two distinctly different career trees. Or giving the races multiple favored classes. Dwarves might be Warrior/Fighter. Or just don't count commoner classes AS classes.

I'll think on this some more.

 

[Maldur]

Stop commenting on the language and help Reynard.

What mundane classes are you thinking about?
scholar, worker, aristocrat, expert, warrior

What herioc classes?
the normal PH classes (or more?)

What prestige classes fit what category?

Are you planning to use the career paths used in WFRP?
like the dwarven prestige classes in Burok ( the scarred lands dwarf town supplement) , some of these classes have levels dwarven defender as requirements.

 

[kengar]

Two quick questions:

1) "WFRP" = ? Warhammer FRP?

2) If not, have you looked at the career paths in WarHammer: RPG? If the answer to #1 is yes, then feel free to ignore that suggestion.

For mundane classes, expert (craftsman), warrior, commoner (laborer), & scholar are good choices.

<digression>
I've never been happy with the Aristocrat class, though. I mean, if you're born as heir to the throne, you are already more powerful than some poor nobleman who has been working hard for 15 years as the lord of some little province, earning his Aristocratic XP's. Sure, he has more skills and stuff, but within the context of being an Aristocrat, you're miles ahead of him before you're even toilet-trained. Oh well, probably not entirely relevant to this thread.
</digression>

Do you want to avoid "Mundane spellcasters" entirely? If not, look at adept and possibly a "watered-down" priest who has some spells, wimpy HD and little or no weapon/armor proficiency. Someone once suggested that Wizards should have to be scholars/scribes for a few levels before getting Wiz1. I thought the idea was pretty neat.

 

[Balsamic Dragon]

For the lowest tier of classes, how about a combination between the NPC classes in the DMG and the d20 modern classes?

I'm thinking something like this:

Soldier (str, trained military)
Sneak (dex, either a scout or a foodpad, need better name tho)
Tribesman (con, born in wilderness area)
Expert (int, schooling of some kind)
Adept (wis, religious training or shaman)
Entertainer (cha, perform skill centered)

You could say that this tier was not affected by the multiclass penalties. So a paladin could come from Soldier, Sneak, Tribesman or even Adept, for example, but if you wanted to have a bizzare background without taking a multiclass penalty you could play an Entertainer/Ranger instead of a Bard/Ranger.

It's a neat idea. Don't know that it would work for all campaigns, but it has potential.

Balsamic Dragon

 

[seasong]

This looks a lot like what I'm working on for my Europ setting. Here's the (very unfinished) Europ classes section, if you want to take a look. I'll be watching this thread closely for ideas to steal !

 

[Reynard]

Furst uv al, thank yu Mulder.

Anyway --

Balsamic Dragon: those classes are much the direction I was going with (basically putting the NPC classes in the place of the Modern classes), except for the Tribesman. Too specific. Maybe something like this:

Str=Warrior
Dex=Thug? "Sneak"?
Con=Commoner (laborer)
Int=Expert
Wis=Adept
Cha=Aristocrat (diplomat)

This way, there should be no "cultural bias" in the Mundane Class structure, so, conceivably, one could move on to the Dragonstar classes, OA classes, or the Core classes as Heroic Classes.

As far as the Warhammer connection goes, it was more of a starting place. Unfortunately, I think there are too many careers in Warhammer, which makes it difficult to pull off something similar in d20. But the idea that you move up in the world as you get more skilled/powerful appeals.

Still, though, if those classes listed above were the Mundane classes, how would requirements for the Core classes look? Of course, to figure that out, you would need to know about how many levels an average PC should have in Mundane classes before moving to a Heroic class.

(Moving on to a Heroic lass is a different story entirely.)