Seriously considering dropping the hobby

Like others have said it sounds like its more the players than the game. I try on occasion to add new players. But so many are 'rollplayers' who got into the game via Neverwinter Nights or Baldur's Gate video games or a MMORPG like EQ or Warcraft that they suck the fun out of the game. They don't want to develop characters or storytell, they want to 'win', by whatever standard they've set for winning. Even a crappy game is fine if the roleplay and fun abound. My girl hates just about everything D20, but she still plays MnM and D&D with me as long as the fun of the roleplay and friendly banter are there.

On the other side she runs World of Darkness(oldWOD) and BESM (D6 tristat) neither of which I am terribly exited about. But as long as the story is fun I can ignore certain mechanics I can't stand.

I've been a RPer since the old days, I started with the Red Box, I played Metamorphasis Alpha, and many other games lost to time and bankruptcy, and its always been the players that made the game regardless of the rules in the box.
 

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Dykstrav, let me say that you raise a lot of good, valid points. I agree that WotC's adventures (and products) are feeling kind of "genericized and flavorless" to me. I particularly agree with the problem of players wanting to play the half-dragon, half-pixie, half-orc multi-classed warlock/paladin. The game has indeed changed.

That being said, I strongly disagree with your "why are gamers being so divisive nowadays."

Dykstrav said:
What's really bothering me is how the player base has slowly been changing. It seems to be acceptable practice (or at least expected) to be uncivil to other gamers with whom you do not agree. Uncouth gamers really disturb me- I've worked with democrats, republicans, independents, muslims, christians, pagans, jews, and atheists that can get along with each other on the job (and even develop genuine friendships) even though they can't agree on anything. I've had the impression that gaming is far less important to most people than politics and religion, so why are gamers being so divisive nowadays?

Compound this issue with the fact that as a gamer, there's an expectation for you to like anime and video games and all the other "weird kid" stuff that's cool now

What this sounds to me, personally, is the good ole "Why, in my day!" conversation we all love hearing. Has the game changed? Yes. Has the player base widened? Yes. However, I think you're really busting out with the rose-colored glasses when you speak of gamers being divisive nowadays, leading one to believe in the Golden Age of Civility back in the 70's/80's.

The Comic Book Guy persona from the Simpsons had real-life inspiration. People complained and haggled and had arguments - and were asocial - even way back in the ancient 70's/80's. In fact, I would go out on a limb to say that they complained and haggled and had arguments just as much then as they do now. The topics and issues may have changed, but I don't think gamers have become less civil, or gamers were more civil 20 years ago.

From what I've seen, the "weird kid stuff" is because of new players entering the fold, which is a good thing in my opinion. Younger people are playing, which means younger interests will come up.

The gist of your topic seemed to be about change. I agree that D&D as a game has changed, and I also think that it has gained more of a mainstream appeal, thus bringing more people into the hobby. Yet while the game system and rules governing it have obviously become different, I don't think the player base has somehow become more crude and crass. The Comic Book Guy still exists. The argumentative rules-lawyer still exists. The cool guy that everyone likes still exists. And if anything, I believe there is even more variety amongst players nowadays than the "Comic Book Guy playing OD&D in his basement" era, with which a clannish attitude sometimes accompanied.

In essence, I agree with some of what you're saying, and disagree with other points. I'll defintely join the chorus and say that if you want to take a break, you should take a break, and if you want to run a game a certain way, you should run it a certain way. There's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's important to keep some perspective and not fall into that "In My Day" mindset that can be sweet to have, in the bittersweet kind of way.
 

Dykstrav said:
[. . .] Final Fantasy and 300
What and what? :confused:

Yes, yes. I know what they are. . . in general. Spare me the details though, please.

Or, in other words, blech.

Which is to say, yes, it would seem there are roleplayers who don't base their games on anything of the sort. Whatsoever. Or, conversely, who do base them on REH, Greek myths, et al. ;)


Should I just give up the game for good?
No way, d00d!

Um, no. Really. A break, though? Sounds like that wouldn't be so bad. Sorry, nothing much to add. :\
 

If you're up for something to try, I would suggest Virtual Tabletop play. The benefit here is that you can access a much larger pool of gamers and find others whose playstyles fit your own better. Like you, I'm a fair bit older than a lot of gamers that hang out in gaming stores, and have kids, so, I can see where you are coming from.

With online play, you can weed out those that you don't enjoy playing with and build a solid group of like minded individuals without the barrier of geography.

Just a thought.
 

Dykstrav said:
What's really bothering me is how the player base has slowly been changing. It seems to be acceptable practice (or at least expected) to be uncivil to other gamers with whom you do not agree. Uncouth gamers really disturb me- I've worked with democrats, republicans, independents, muslims, christians, pagans, jews, and atheists that can get along with each other on the job (and even develop genuine friendships) even though they can't agree on anything. I've had the impression that gaming is far less important to most people than politics and religion, so why are gamers being so divisive nowadays?

The only place I see this divisiveness is online. In real life, the gamers I've met have been, to a person, nice, reasonable, and willing to be flexible. Pay less attention to message board flame wars would be my advice.

Dykstrav said:
Compound this issue with the fact that as a gamer, there's an expectation for you to like anime and video games and all the other "weird kid" stuff that's cool now, and it's difficult to find any common ground for discussion. Am I being unreasonable for basing my games on classical mythology and literature instead of video games and anime? Are there any other gamers out there who run games inspired by the Iliad and Conan: the Barbarian instead of Final Fantasy and 300?

I'm 41, been playing since 1979, and I'm not sure there's anything wrong with this paradigm shift. Plus I don't feel compelled to like anime or video games. It's really all a matter of perception anyway. What some see as video game or anime influences I often see as analogous to something I can point to in literature or mythology. Happens all the time. Plus Conan - and Lord knows I love Robert E. Howard, have since I was a kid - is far from "literature." It was purple-prosed pulp fodder, which is analogous to comic books and video games of today, in that it was designed to be flashy and over the top chewing gum for the mind. Sure, Howard was often brilliant, no question, but the same can be said of some tropes and ideas from comics and games today. And 300...I don't see the problem with this. It's embellished history, which a lot of mythology was. Think the real battle for Troy was anything like the Iliad? I doubt it very much. Homer embellished the story to titillate his audience, just as Frank Miller and the filmmakers of 300 did with the Battle of Thermopylae. And I also bet Robert Howard would've loved 300 - it's an idealized and stylized version of ancient Greece and the Spartans, just as Howard's Hyboria was an idealized and stylized version of ancient Europe.
 

Biohazard said:
I feel your pain.

I'm 38 and I've been playing RPGs in one form or other for thirty years now. Although that includes a long layoff in the nineties.

I have found it well-nigh impossible to find gamers my age and at my station of life.

Now your points hit much closer to home with me. This is the very reason I've been thinking lately about finding a new hobby - a paucity of gamers my own age with the time to game. I've been drifting more towards computer games like Nexus: the Jupiter Incident simply because it's easier to simply boot up the game and play when I want than to try to cobble together a pen and paper RPG group that more than likely will fall apart as schedules conflict. It's kind of sad, but these things happen.
 

Gaming wise: Take a break from gaming or try castles and crusades. Most complaints your first post had don't exist in C&C.*

Life wise: Try and make new non gaming friends. It sounds like you need to meet more folks with similar interests.

*Wotc specifically tries to sell books to those type of people you were complaining about in your first post. These types were driven from D&D in previous editions. They buy the books and then wander in search of someone who will allow their Uber characters. Wotc gleefully takes their money and lets the DM be the 'bad guy' who says "No".
 


I'm about 90% with the OP.

I'm 31 years old; as of this year, I've been officially gaming for 20 years. I have difficulties finding a gaming group around here that isn't cloistered into their selective cliques.

As for your style of gaming, I've always been about designing games aroud video games and anime... I've been doing Final Fantasy-esque games before they were en vogue. I play OUTSIDE core as much as I can... I like my characters to have k3wl p0w3rz but I also go deep into storylines and NPC interaction. And when I DM, well... there's no telling what's gonna happen.

So, I've hung up my DM hat for now and turned to World of Warcraft. It's got all the goodness of dungeon crawling and the world is largely designed to my satisfaction. Ya gots guns, techno-stuff, aliens, monsters as PC's, and k3wl p0w3rz... plus the social interaction and group work in the form of player guilds. This game feeds all my D&D needs for now...

... and there's no problem finding players. :x
 

Same boat here. I have found that I hate 3e more and more everytime I try to DM it. I have refused to DM it any longer, and have instead gone to Warhammer. Even still, I think it may just be time for a RPG break. Heck, I'm going to satellite internet soon, so maybe some WoW, or some other will get me by.
 

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