Seriously considering dropping the hobby

[Dykstrav]

Let me preface by stating that I've been playing D&D and RPGs in some form since the 80's. I have many fond memories of great campaigns over the years. Many of the games themselves (not to mention the wonderful people I've met along the way) are such a part of my own identity that it's difficult for me to conceive of myself as not being a gamer. Rolling dice and drawing dungeons has always been a great deal of fun.

The game has changed. The people that play the game have changed. Without getting too much into the specifics of why I don't like the current batch of products (which may be relevant, but it's been beaten to death and not the discussion I'm looking for), the game just doesn't excite me any more. Shortly after 3.5 the products just started falling flat to me. I haven't genuinely enjoyed any new release since Tome of Battle and Magic of Incarnum. The new adventures are good, but still somehow come off as genericized and flavorless.

I can understand that my own preferences change. What's really bothering me is how the player base has slowly been changing. It seems to be acceptable practice (or at least expected) to be uncivil to other gamers with whom you do not agree. Uncouth gamers really disturb me- I've worked with democrats, republicans, independents, muslims, christians, pagans, jews, and atheists that can get along with each other on the job (and even develop genuine friendships) even though they can't agree on anything. I've had the impression that gaming is far less important to most people than politics and religion, so why are gamers being so divisive nowadays?

Compound this issue with the fact that as a gamer, there's an expectation for you to like anime and video games and all the other "weird kid" stuff that's cool now, and it's difficult to find any common ground for discussion. Am I being unreasonable for basing my games on classical mythology and literature instead of video games and anime? Are there any other gamers out there who run games inspired by the Iliad and Conan: the Barbarian instead of Final Fantasy and 300?

I haven't gamed regularly in almost a year now because it's just too many hoops to jump through and too many issues to smooth over to get a group of players that want to actually design characters that are more than a list of powers and meet regularly without the game devolving into either a debate over rules minutiae or devolve into a skulking/shouting match. I'm really disappointed in both the products and the players these days.

I'm tired of the sourcebooks that basically amount to more feats/spells/prestige classes. I'm tired of players who whine about me "quashing their creativity" when I ask them why they want to play a half-dragon warlock or a monk/warblade and ask them to come up with a background that justifies their choice of race and class.

These experiences have actually made me not want to play the game any more.

Is it just me, or are there broader issues with the game and the player base that are beyond reconciliation?

Should I just give up the game for good? Or is there hope of finding players that want to make PHB characters and loot a dungeon every once in a while?

Sorry if this rambled a bit, but I'm increasingly frustrated with a hobby that was once my favorite pastime. I'd really value some constructive input on why we keep playing.

 

[DaveMage]

Is it just me, or are there broader issues with the game and the player base that are beyond reconciliation?

Should I just give up the game for good? Or is there hope of finding players that want to make PHB characters and loot a dungeon every once in a while?

Sorry if this rambled a bit, but I'm increasingly frustrated with a hobby that was once my favorite pastime. I'd really value some constructive input on why we keep playing.

To your first question, the game (D&D 3.5) has so many options that in order to process it as a DM, I have to limit options. For example, I haven't had time to study the Incarnum rules, and I don't intend to anytime soon. Therefore, I would not allow it in my game. It may benefit you to limit what your players can use. If both parties can't agree on that, then there might be problems elsewhere down the road in game anyway.

Should you give up the game for good? Well, first you might try stepping away for a while. Take time off completely - don't even think about the game for a few months or even a year, and try other hobbies. If after that time, you still miss gaming, get back into it. If not, you're free!

Finally, if you're not getting the enjoyment from the hobby, then look at it from a practical perspective: your time is valuable. D&D (and all RPGs) take a large investment of time. Appreciate this newfound time and enjoy it doing other things you'd enjoy.

 

[Biohazard]

Sorry if this rambled a bit, but I'm increasingly frustrated with a hobby that was once my favorite pastime. I'd really value some constructive input on why we keep playing.

I feel your pain.

I'm 38 and I've been playing RPGs in one form or other for thirty years now. Although that includes a long layoff in the nineties.

I have found it well-nigh impossible to find gamers my age and at my station of life. I was the oldest in my last group; the rest were all in their twenties. I'm married; none of them were. I have a child; none of them do. I'm wanting to talk about my daughter's latest escapades at preschool; they're all talking about how cool kung-fu movies are.

The other problem I've found is that RPGs just aren't worth the work anymore. I love video games and board games, and I'm starting to think that since my time is at such a premium (especially with a four year old child) that I'd rather stick with those for my gaming pleasures.

On that note: last week some friends came over for a five-hour session of ARKHAM HORROR, the Call of Cthulhu boardgame. No rules bickering, no uber-powered characters gleaned from umpteenth source books, no hours of prep for me ahead of time (I usually DM). Instead, we set up the game and had a hell of a good time gaming. Instead of twenty minutes of fun spread out over five hours (which is what D&D 3.5 sessions often become), it was five hours of solid gaming goodness.

Now THAT is what I've been missing.

The other day I took out the old Nintendo GameCube and started playing through Resident Evil 4 again. Damn, was that fun. Give me THAT anyday over debating about attacks of opportunity with some egghead who has more rules knowledge than social skills.

To get my D&D fix, I'm starting to consider the boardgame Runebound. I suspect it may very well offer the best of both worlds.

Anyway, the tabletop RPG hobby is dying. Fewer and fewer people look at the 1000+ pages of rules and say, "Why?"

It's getting harder for me to answer that same question.

 

[billd91]

If I had a dollar for every thread I've seen about people quitting the game...

I can understand if you feel your preferences for certain styles of game aren't matching with the current zeitgeist of D&D. Times change, people coming into the hobby change, blah blah blah. But that doesn't mean you can't find like-minded individuals out there.

It's true that doing so can be a pain. No doubt. I also have no doubt that one of the reasons I'm enjoying the game every bit as much now as I did as a kid is because I've been with a stable core group of players for over a decade and don't have to jump through the hoops of finding like-minded players and forging a group. But then, I feel I'm fairly lucky in that regard.

I don't, however, think that gamers are getting any less civil. They weren't necessarily civil before. I've met plenty of anti-social gamers over many, many years and I don't think things are getting any worse. I don't think they're getting better either. Constantly running into difficult people is more a function of luck than of the gamers getting worse.

 

[Umbran]

Should I just give up the game for good?

In a word - no.

If nothing else, there is no need for the ultimatum, the "never again". It serves no purpose other than to deny you possibilities. If you don't feel like playing now, that's fine. But there's no reason to close yourself off to the thought of playing in the future.

Problems with the game can be solved either by chopping away at the options until you have a set you like.

Problems with players can, I admit, take a while to solve. Finding a group that plays in a way you like may not be easy. But nothing worth doing is ever easy, right? My own group uses only a bare minimum of stuff outside the core, so I know such players exist

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I keep playing (or rather, came BACK to playing D&D specifically, then left again for other d20 and non-d20 games) because the trends you're describing, with the exception of the rudeness, are positive to me.

In my opinion, Final Fantasy and 300 are descendents of Conan and John Carter, whereas D&D is a descendent of Lord of the Rings. I'm kind of meh on the latter (both antecedent and modern) and love the former (both antecedent and modern), so every step D&D takes toward the former means I'm far more likely to enjoy it. And frankly, I'd say FF and 300 have more in common with the Illiad than pre-3e D&D did, too. Anyway, D&D is more enjoyable for me now than it was when I realized it didn't suit my preferences years ago, but it still doesn't go nearly far enough to be my game of choice.

As to the rudeness of gamers... you're talking about in person, not online? In person, I find gamers about as rude as they ever were: more openly so than the general population because other gamers are more likely to tolerate antisocial behavior than 'norms,' but not by a lot. Online, of course, every subgroup seems to boil over with impotent rage and scarce-constrained venom.

If D&D doesn't do it for you because of the direction it's going, I'd suggest doing what I generally do because of the direction it ISN'T: play other RPGs. Some good choices for your stated preferences would be, I think, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, Artesia, Fantasy HERO, RuneQuest (I reccomend the Mongoose version) or Burning Wheel.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

I quit for five years. Best thing I ever did for my love of the game.

It's a hobby, not a spouse. Walk away and take up water polo or something. A few decades down the road, who knows? Maybe you'll pick your dice back up in the retirement home!

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Should I just give up the game for good? Or is there hope of finding players that want to make PHB characters and loot a dungeon every once in a while?

Take some time off. Maybe you'll find after some time you miss it. Maybe you'll just happen to run into some like-minded people and be inspired to play again.

Stick around here. If I ever end up moving to the RTP area (as might happen in a few years) I will need a new group, and it sounds like you enjoy a game similar to what I like. Maybe you'll be ready to give it a go again by then.

 

[papastebu]

This thread reminds me of the movie, Dragonslayer.
I am 38, and I don't game, but only because there are no people around me that do so. I have a son, 8 years old, and I ran a solo adventure for him not long ago--rules-light--and he really enjoyed it. He's only a little older than I was when I first saw the game, and when I see him having fun, I start to smile, even if I have had the worst freakin' day possible up to then.
My wife doesn't get it, but I love the game.
The people that I consider my closest friends live two hours away, and my nearest sibling is nearly 3 hours away. It takes an 8 1/2 hour drive to visit my mom and dad. My youngest sister is no less than 20 hours away, in Minnesota, and probably more like 24 hours away.
My game books are in the shelf to my left as I type this. If my hobby has devolved--or E-volved, as the case may be--into rules tinkering and collecting of game books, then so be it. One of these days, therell be a game, or there won't. Either way, I'm still kickin', and I'm still getting the good out of what I'm doing.
As to having to deal with what people want for their characters, maybe try playing instead of refereeing, for awhile. It could reset your outlook on dealing with limitations placed on you by DMs. Maybe not being in charge will free up your mind and heart so you can enjoy yourself again.
Way back when I was a kid, I would always try and hang out with my brother and his friends, he's 6 years older than me, and that's a big difference, when you're six. My mother would always say, "You need to make some friends your own age." I really don't mean to sound like this sounds, but maybe that's something you should do. The game, when I was playing, was always a chance to socialize with like-minded people. Maybe the group you're in with is not so "like-minded", and that's what's bringing you down.
The reason that I come to these boards is to interact with similar intellects. My kid is really amazing, but there's 30 years' difference in our experience levels, and sometimes, I just need to talk to a grownup about something that's of interest to me. And, like I said, my wife just doesn't get gaming.
I hope that I've helped you, somehow. Just remember, if you cut off all of your means of self-expression, you are taking the first steps toward depression by inviting unalleviated stress, which creates cortizol, which shrinks your brain and makes you fat. AT THE SAME TIME!

-Steve

 

[Krolik]

To me it comes down to simple things. Being burned out on D&D does not mean you're burned out on gaming. It just means you're burned out on D&D. Maybe it's time to change your game system. I was a Champs player for decades and felt completely burned out. I recently switch to M&M and the new rules and challenges completely re-invigorated me. Sometimes a change of scenery is what's needed in life.

Or maybe you're just burned out on your players. I've been gaming with some of the same people for 20 years now. I know what they're going to do even before they do it. Being in a gaming group is like being in a marriage. If you lose the sense of spontaneity and interest in what someone is going to do sometimes only a divorce can fix the problem.

As far as gamers being different now... I don't see much difference; other then the fact that more people are on the internet now and so we see more names and opinions. Back in the 80s I was on the Red October bulletin board and people were just as aggressive and just as snotty as they are today. The internet's like a giant shield that protects us, allowing us to say anything to anyone without fear of getting our faces punched in. Only the people paid to be nice and politically correct are.