Settings and stories the rules can't handle (or don't handle well)

[jmucchiello]

Mostly it's the idea that there are only 10 things you can do:

1. Pull metal objects toward you.
2. Push metal objects away.
3. Soothe people's emotions.
4. Incite their emotions.
5. Sense other people using magic.
6. Hide your magic.
7. Make yourself physically stronger.
8. Enhance your senses.
9. See a few seconds into the future.
10. Something else I don't remember.

None of this sounds like something the system can't handle. In fact, this look pretty easy. The metal aspect make it sound like something where you do a skill-based system using CON as the primary stat. There's nothing really tricky here once you figure out how to keep track of the metallic content of the player.

Books with really hard magic systems are the ones that move at the speed of plot. When the writer doesn't care 'how' magic works, you usually end up with a magic non-system that doesn't adapt well to RPGs.

 

[MortonStromgal]

I've built settings of far flung, sci-fi, stellar empires, with rogues, fighters and psionicists as the majority of classes with assorted alien races - all of this with very little shoe-horning needed (none really). I used the 'shoe-horning' phrase, as I can imagine someone coming up with a unique and odd world that using D&D rules may seem poor, or less manageable, and those might require shoe-horning.

How did you handle star ship combat? As I would consider that pretty shoe-horned. Also computer hacking if you had a cyberpunkish setting.

 

[gamerprinter]

Books with really hard magic systems are the ones that move at the speed of plot. When the writer doesn't care 'how' magic works, you usually end up with a magic non-system that doesn't adapt well to RPGs.

Just 'cut' and 'replace', why work with a different magic system in the first place. Whether its an adventure or a setting, with some exotic magic system in place. I'd look at it long enough to see which subset of the rules it feels closest too: arcane, divine, ki, corruption, psionic, witchcraft, shamanism... pick one and adapt the settings magic goals that scale to D&D. Nerf it or empower it as necessary. Will it match? Probably not, but doesn't need to. The product serves as environment to play in and not a ruleset to live by.

Looking at Pathfinder rules, say you want a magic weak world, but still having some limited spellcasters. I'd pick the PF sorcerer whose bloodlines provide feats, spells and powers - then limit the sorcerer to those only, and not access to any spell list. Let her cast some cantrips or one, at 1st and she doesn't get a real spell until 4th and every four levels thereafter. The bonus feats and powers only enhance this limitation. However, no you have a class ready to run a fun magic-weak setting.

For a weak psionicist, use the Monk's Ki Pool, change the ki powers to a specific tree of psionic powers, but with a small pool, half your level, minimum one, you have a mentalist that could seem powerful in a magic weak world, where doing anything seems like going nova.

If you need something more powerful, lift the damage caps on blaster spells or whatever other thing you need to do to best match the setting requirements. Its not rocket science to build to fit.

GP

 

[MortonStromgal]

. I'd look at it long enough to see which subset of the rules it feels closest too: arcane, divine, ki, corruption, psionic, witchcraft, shamanism... pick one and adapt the settings magic goals that scale to D&D.

Does one of those handle improv style magic? how about drain style magic?

theres 1001 systems out there no reason you have to use D&D.

 

[Nagol]

Does one of those handle improv style magic? how about drain style magic?

theres 1001 systems out there no reason you have to use D&D.

Indeed. I much prefer to use a system specificially designed for the genre or specifically designed to be malleable in preference to trying to convert a different RPG.

 

[gamerprinter]

How did you handle star ship combat? As I would consider that pretty shoe-horned. Also computer hacking if you had a cyberpunkish setting.

We did it for our last Epic 3x campaign, no shoe-horning required. (It wasn't 4e, and I don't know 4e, so I can't judge for that ruleset).

We spent lots of time planar traveling via the Astral plane on an open topped ship with sails, that could enclose itself into a force bubble for more corrosive alien atmospheres (traveling to the Far Realms...) If the vessel needed to look like the Enterprise or Firefly, build it that way, but for our setting a sailing vessel worked for our needs. Actually the engine was a artifact that consumed magic items to fuel it, so we went around on Epic adventures saving the multi-verse amassing our treasure while picking up extra magic to feed the ship.

D&D energy weapons: fire, sonic, cold, heat, electrical, positive, negative, whatever was a pulse or focused channel energy attacks. Heavy ballista firing alien heavy materials might cause structural damage. So I might adopt 2e or 3e structural damage rules for a ship's defenses. How about a mental blast (psionic blast intensified perhaps).

We also eventually conquered a created race of adamantine golems, dismantled them and used them to create an adamantine skin onto the hull of our ship granting it DR 10/Scrutctural...

The computer hacker, is a rogue with class skills in Knowledge (coding), Use Cyber Device. He's got Trapsense (detecting countermeasures) and disables devices as required. Perhaps using his Craft skill to jerry-rig bypasses around security hardware, and Profession: hacker...

Remember Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide features the Alchemist new class, and can easily be adapted to a number of steam-punk, cyberpunkish settings as well. Still absorbing the APG to judge best.

Come on give me a challenge that will stump me!

Sci-Fi to D&D is easy peasy.

GP

 

[MortonStromgal]

Come on give me a challenge that will stump me!

Sci-Fi to D&D is easy peasy.

GP

Thanks! The "computer hacking" in cyberpunk is a VR dungeon crawl though. Not that your system doesnt work (orc becomes virus or whatever).

I look forward to reading your improv and drain magic systems.

 

[gamerprinter]

Thanks! The "computer hacking" in cyberpunk is a VR dungeon crawl though. Not that your system doesnt work (orc becomes virus or whatever).

I look forward to reading your improv and drain magic systems.

Ah, but then its cheating if you don't give me all the details. I don't Cyberpunk, so I was only guessing. So you're asking if it would be a problem to play 'D&D' while playing 'D&D'. If hacking means jacking yourself into the system, to cheat it, in order to beat a VR challenge - now the problem seems far less challenging, just kill the monster and take its stuff!

So before I describe my D&D solution to 'drain magic systems', what exactly do you mean? If I understand, I can make it work.

But without you explaining, just at the notion of 'drain magic systems', I can already see:

1. Use the new APG rules for counterspell magic.
2. Necromancy using the various ability damage and life drain, target the users magic pool, target magic slots. Create a new spells that expends the use of a spell slot for no effect and metamagic to enhane that effect more slots at a time.
3. The Kitsune (fox woman shapechanger of Japan) was known to kill victims by draining their ki pool (as a source of life.)
4. Some kind of dispell spell or dispelling touch to drain or nulify magic systems.

So before I continue to guess wrongly, tell me what you mean so I can give it a shot?

GP

 

[MortonStromgal]

Drain Magic
When a caster casts a spell the caster takes damage. You can cast spells till you die, thats the only limiting factor. (the potential problem I see with this in D&D is healing magic as they dont have a drain stat)

Improv Magic
You make up your spells on the fly. There is no spell list, sometimes it may have a component or gesture requirement depending on the fiction. Most games like this have a couple tables (area, power, etc) and a skill roll to see if you succeeded in casting whatever you wanted. For example in Mage I could be running away from some goons and decided I want to create a banana peel under them or that I want to teleport to Mt Everest.

 

[gamerprinter]

Does one of those handle improv style magic? how about drain style magic?

theres 1001 systems out there no reason you have to use D&D.

Sorry, didn't read this one yet. I'm not sure what either of those are. I need some details. But improv magic sounds to me like a wizards with spell slots, but no recorded spells in them. I don't know how you'd measure an improv spell to determine its power level, but if there is some mechanism, then its only a matter to assign which spell slot it takes up and thus is expended. Depending on how many improv spells you get in a day, determines the number of spell slots available.

And I don't mean to suggest that using an Indie system might not be better for any specific game or setting. I'm only looking at this as an academic challenge, because over the last 30 years of gaming, moreso in the last 20, we've done lots of experimentation, and adapting those ideas were always done in D&D in our gaming group, simply by preference. If there's a better system to run your game, don't let me stop you.

For me, its just not necessary - getting too old to want to learn new rules...

GP