Several inconsequential questions

[Demon Knight]

In a recent session, I came upon several rules debates that were very adamantly discussd. I was hoping some of you rules lawyers could help me out.

1) Listen vs Invisibility.

Subject A is invisible. Subject B(20ft away, wielding a whip with range 30ft) wants to ready an action against A with the trigger "If A begins casting a spell".

Does Subject B get to make his attack against A when A begins casting with a verbal component?

On a side note, when A had moved 5 ft during his round (he made no other movement), B claimed that since A did not make a Move Silently check, that the DC to pinpoint him would be 0 + 20 (invisible). A claims that since he's unarmored, the DC would be 10 + 20 (unarmored moving less then 15 ft). B responds by pointing out that the list of DCs in the PHB are merely examples, and they should not be adhered too, because the list is for the DM. What do you think?

2)Same situation as above. B readies an action to "move if A begins casting". A casts Mind Fog which triggers B's partial action. B moves away from where he was. A finishes casting, enveloping the fog over B. B claims that since targets must be made when you start to cast, that A could not direct the area to include B because he moved far far away. A counters by pointing out that ready actions take place before the actual action that triggered them. So the question is...can A redirect the area of the Fog?

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Berk]

Oh god, I can see blood shed already with the arguements over these.

 

[Hypersmurf]

1a/ It's a fairly easy Listen check to tell that A is casting. It's a more difficult Listen check to pinpoint the square. If he hears A casting, his action triggers. But he still has to pick (or somehow ascertain) which square to attack into.

1b/ The DC10 is an average result for an average person with neither bonus nor penalty deliberately Moving Silently. It's up to the DM whether he wants to simply assume the average (Take 10, basically), or require the character to make a roll. If the character was not making any effort to be quiet, then the base DC of 0 sounds about right. If the character was trying to move quietly, but moving at normal speed, then the base DC of 10 is modified by a -5 penalty, for a DC of -5. (Or, of course, a Move Silently check with a -5 penalty.)

Note that moving 15 feet and then casting a spell may not qualify as "moving half your normal speed". This is a heavily debated point

Standard tactical movement in combat assumes hustle speed (insert debate here), or twice your "normal speed". Thus, your "normal speed" would be taking a double move action to move 30 feet (insert debate here), or 15 feet with a move action. Thus, to move 15 feet in a round at half your "normal speed" would require a double move action. Doing it with a move action (eg as part of a standard action) would not be moving at half your normal speed, and would not qualify for the unpenalised Move Silently check (insert debate here).

2/ Ooh, lots of fun here.

First point - decisions about a spell must be made when you begin casting (with the possible exception of Targets - it contradicts itself on p148). Mind Fog is an Effect.

But... the location of an Effect can be defined by people - for example "I'll cast Mind Fog centred on Character B". If Character B moves 20 feet, it doesn't matter - Character A still casts Mind Fog centred on him, it's just 20 feet away from where he originally thought he'd be casting it.

Chr A does have a valid point about readied actions occurring before trigger actions, but it gets very messy.

Example: Chr C is 40 feet away from Chr D - within Charge , but outside normal move-and-attack range. Chr C declares a Charge.

However, Chr D had anticipated this, and had already declared a Readied action - if Chr C comes within 15 feet, he will move 10 feet to his left.

Chr C is already over halfway through his charge when Chr D moves away. Chr C can't charge around corners - are his options limited to keep-moving-forward or stop... or can he convert his charge to a normal double move?

If Chr E starts casting Magic Missile at Chr F, right near the limit of his range... but Chr F's readied action moves him out of range... what happens to the spell? Can Chr E choose not to cast it, since Chr F's move technically happened before he casts? Can he choose to cast something else instead? Or is he forced to carry on casting, even though the spell has no valid target?

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Ok... this IS messy.

I'm in the camp of the guys who say that A cannot aim at B if B moved outside of his range since he essentially needs the full round to move and cast (his standard action), though his initiative takes place at a certain point... but allowing someone to react to a readied action against him goes against the principles of readying.

And yes, it is possible to ready an action to move outside of the range of a spell to avoid the spell. Heck, why not?

Edit: At least that's how my character dodged more than one fireball...