Several related questions

[CruelSummerLord]

1) Is it bad DMing to out-and-out refuse certain character concepts or classes? I freely admit to being an old-school grognard despite my young age, and I intensely dislike the trend towards all kinds of prestige classes, multiclassing, min/maxing, and magic supermarkets.

Hence, if I were DMing, I would insist that characters play the baseline PHB races only-that means no tieflings, no genasi, nothing like that. Humans, dwarves, elves, half-elves, half-orcs, gnomes, and halflings, nothing else.

No warblades, or any of the other fancy new classes from any splatbooks or Dragon magazine, unless I discuss it with the player first. We can work something out, but otherwise I don't want all kinds of weird concepts wrecking the setting.

2) Would it be bad DMing to let the players know ahead of time that this is going to be a low-magic game, and that the treasure guidelines in the DMG are not going to be followed? They might get as high as 12th or 13th level, and end up with nothing more than a +1 shield as far as magic items go, and still wielding the same non-magical, non-masterwork sword they had when they were a 1st-level novice.

(Obviously, they'll be getting permanent and non-permanent goodies before that, but they wouldn't need to know that right at the beginning, heheh.)

By the same token, level gains would not be pre-set, either.

I'd try and soften the blow by pointing that my BBEGs won't necessarily have all the magical widgets that they might like, either-instead of scrying, they might be forced to use agents to spy on the PCs or gain information through some more mundane means-means that the PCs can trace back to them.

Sure, the BBEG might like to have a tool to summon elementals to do his bidding, or to have bracers, cloaks and rings of armor, but then a lot of people would like a lot of things. If PCs have to be thankful for whatever magical resources they can lay their hands on, villains are much the same way.

3) No magic shops. PCs can't simply expect to stroll into town and plunk down some gold for a magic wand or suit of armor-they'd be laughed out of the shop. The only magical items they might be able to buy would be things like low-level potions and oils to heal their wounds or enchant their weapons, and maybe the odd magic wand or scroll in the rarest of cases. The only institutions that would sell these are wizards' guilds, and they'll likely gouge customers for all they're worth-the demand is high, the supply is extremely low, and they have a monopoly.

This means that things like smokesticks, tanglefoot bags, and thunderstones are not available for general use, either. On the other hand, that means the bad guys won't be able to use them, either.

Hence, it'd be meat-and-potatoes low fantasy; many of the base assumptionjs about 3E are gone.

Would this be bad DMing, in essence putting your foot down about the style of play you want to run? Needless to say, the players would have free reign to make their own personalities and backgrounds, and in any event they'd have a major role in shaping the plot, too-telling me what they want and I'll get it all together, to say nothing of what they might decide to do during a plot or a campaign-if the PCs come up with an alternate approach to a situation, who am I to judge, right?

Thoughts?

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

1) Is it bad DMing to out-and-out refuse certain character concepts or classes?

Nope.

2) Would it be bad DMing to let the players know ahead of time that this is going to be a low-magic game, and that the treasure guidelines in the DMG are not going to be followed?

Nope; on the contrary, sounds like a good DM policy to let players know what to expect (and allow some to walk if they're not interested).

Would this be bad DMing, in essence putting your foot down about the style of play you want to run?

Nope. If you're taking the time and making the effort to run the game, you should be able to run the kind of game you like. If someone has a problem with it, they can always choose to sit it out, or to run a game, themselves.

I think the best games are ones where the DM is enthusiastic about the material/game, in any case. So run what you like; hopefully your players will enjoy it, too, or you'll find players that enjoy it.

 

[HellHound]

IMO, good GMing involves sitting down before a game with the players and everyone working together to decide what kind of game they want to play. If the players don't want to play a meat-and-potatoes low fantasy game and would rather play a different style of game, then forcing them to another game is going to produce a lot less fun around the table.

 

[Dross]

Having played with several differnt gamer styles there are a few things that (at least in my opinion) should be done.

Starting a new campaign and you are the DM: tell the others the style of game you want to run: Low magic, non-standard XP and leveling method, different wealth by level guidlines (yours is an extremely low wealth by level guidline for example). what classes, books, sources (or parts thereof) are allowed.

But thses things must be brought up before the start of play because people will need to decide whether that style suits them, like whether they want a fight-fest v political intrigue style game.

In one group (since we all DMed at some stage) went from:
core only,
core with house-ruled classes/magic levels and homebrew game world,
core + forgotten realms stuff,
core + FR + asked for Complete ## bits and pieces minus a few bits and pieces,
to anything goes, whatever source and power level + power hungry grab power not everyone knows about homebrewed steroid taking proton power pill extras.

Everyone needs to be on the same page and have the same material available.

Not all clasess fit the theme of a campaign, it is okay to omit them. Same goes with items, spells, feats etc.

But the players NEED TO KNOW. That is the essence, everyone needs to know what to expect.

And I disagree about: "I am a DM, this is the way it goes." as the first line of communication. As a final line of communication where you are given permision by the group it is okay, but not before.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

And I disagree about: "I am a DM, this is the way it goes." as the first line of communication. As a final line of communication where you are given permision by the group it is okay, but not before.

IMO, that's pretty much a given. That is, such permission goes with the DM's job. Obviously, it's a social game and a there needs to be some communication and consideration of everyones preferences. However, the DM is doing the heavy lifting, and he gets the final say. I expect to extend that responsibility and courtesy to the DM when I play, and I expect to receive it when I DM. If the DM is an ass about it, no one will play with him, and if a player is an ass about it, you're probaby better off without him, so either way it's a self-correcting problem, IMO.

YMMV, as always.

 

[CruelSummerLord]

Having played with several differnt gamer styles there are a few things that (at least in my opinion) should be done.

Starting a new campaign and you are the DM: tell the others the style of game you want to run: Low magic, non-standard XP and leveling method, different wealth by level guidlines (yours is an extremely low wealth by level guidline for example). what classes, books, sources (or parts thereof) are allowed.

But thses things must be brought up before the start of play because people will need to decide whether that style suits them, like whether they want a fight-fest v political intrigue style game.

In one group (since we all DMed at some stage) went from:
core only,
core with house-ruled classes/magic levels and homebrew game world,
core + forgotten realms stuff,
core + FR + asked for Complete ## bits and pieces minus a few bits and pieces,
to anything goes, whatever source and power level + power hungry grab power not everyone knows about homebrewed steroid taking proton power pill extras.

Everyone needs to be on the same page and have the same material available.

Not all clasess fit the theme of a campaign, it is okay to omit them. Same goes with items, spells, feats etc.

But the players NEED TO KNOW. That is the essence, everyone needs to know what to expect.

And I disagree about: "I am a DM, this is the way it goes." as the first line of communication. As a final line of communication where you are given permision by the group it is okay, but not before.

Oh, I agree with all of this. I'd be more than happy to go the way the players want when it comes to actual plotlines-they want to be mercenaries, they want political intrigue, they want hack-slash-kill, that's fine.

It's just my own little quirks and eccentricities that make it so I'd absolutely need to keep the low magic, low fantasy feel in a D&D game I'd run, otherwise I'd be completely miserable. Of course, that only applies if I were the one running the show-if I were a player in someone else's game, I'd be quite willing to toe the line and follow the DM's playstyle.

Take my buddy GVDammerung, for instance. His version of Greyhawk includes things that I wouldn't include in my version if you put a gun to my head, but if I were playing in his game, it would be his world, his way of doing things, his say-so. I'd just adapt-in fact, I'd probably play the confused, bewildered and horrified barbarian.

 

[robberbaron]

No, no and no.

It is OK to restrict your game to PHB races, not allow prestige classes, have a low magic setting, whatever you want. The mistake would be not telling your players until they are rolling up their Tiefling Mega-Blade who is aiming for the Ultra-Killer-Slasher PrC.

Good DMing means to me involving your players in the game, not imposing it on them.
Works for me, anyway.

 

[Jhaelen]

IMO, good GMing involves sitting down before a game with the players and everyone working together to decide what kind of game they want to play.

Before I started my current campaign I wrote a small primer which I handed out to prospective players. Using their feedback I then made some minor changes and then we were ready to go.

It's very important that both parties approve any restrictions that apply to a campaign beforehand.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Would this be bad DMing?

Yes it would.

Assuming this is 3e, the whole system is designed with certain assumptions about what gear the PCs have. If they have less it will throw the CR calculations off and hurt some classes more than others. Physical combat types, such as fighters, need stat and AC boosters, magic weapons and armour to stay competitive. Without magic weapons and other special materials, monsters with DR/x will be incredibly powerful, moreso than their CR suggests.

If you want to play a low magic game, I would recommend not using D&D.

 

[Anthelios]

Yes it would.

Assuming this is 3e, the whole system is designed with certain assumptions about what gear the PCs have. If they have less it will throw the CR calculations off and hurt some classes more than others. Physical combat types, such as fighters, need stat and AC boosters, magic weapons and armour to stay competitive. Without magic weapons and other special materials, monsters with DR/x will be incredibly powerful, moreso than their CR suggests.

If you want to play a low magic game, I would recommend not using D&D.

I agree and disagree. 3e would work fine, he'll just need to consider this will be a tougher game. Players like a challenge now and then. Its much more rewarding when you kill that creature that you were stacked against, than when you can steamroll over it.

Hes stated hes not going to use the standard XP calculations. He wants a more hardcore game with slower levels. If hes low magic, then there are probably less creatures in his world with DR x/magic.

One bit of advice is to stay away from Monster Manuel III, that thing has min-maxed monsters designed to chew up min-maxers. The Skinchanger and War Troll just to name two.

You'll prolly want to stick with creatures that have slightly lower AC, Slightly lower Attack bonuses, and less DR/magic. You might want to change a creature with DR/Magic to 1/3 normal damage reduction, but make it unbeatable. So DR 15/magic would become DR 5/-

Less magic items and alchemy also means you're going to need to set up some way for the PCs to see a threat coming. Being ambushed in their sleep by a wraith would probably be a TPK. Add alternate ways of defeating creatures they cant have the ability to harm.

Just my 2cp.