Shadow Conjuration, saving throws, etc.

Nareau

Explorer
Gizem is an 11th level sorceress with a Cha of 14. She has Spell Focus: Illusion, and Spell Thematics. She selected Shadow Conjuration as her ST spell for 4th level.

One day, she casts Shadow Conjuration to mimic a Sleet Storm spell. She catches a group of enemies with it: A Gnomish fighter, an elven wizard, and a human cleric (who's under the effects of a True Seeing spell).

The save DC to recognize it as an illusion is 10 + 2 (Int) + 4 (Spell Level) + 2 (Spell Focus: Illusion)= 18. This is a Will save. Obviously, the Gnome gets his +2 to save vs. Illusions.

Q1: If the wizard rolls really well on a Spellcraft check, and is able to recognize that it's a Shadow Conjuration spell being cast, does he still need to make a Will save to disbelieve it? Or does this fall under the "incontrovertible proof" clause?

Q2: Does the cleric automatically recognize that it's an illusion, thanks to his True Seeing? The description says that it allows him to "see through illusions." Does that mean that he automatically disbelieves any illusion spell?


Okay, so let's say that the Gnome fails his saving throw. He can't see through the driving sleet, and he now must make a Reflex save to avoid falling down.

Q3: What spell is he trying to save against now? Shadow Conjuration with a DC of 18 again? Or Sleet Storm with a reduced DC, since it's a lower level spell, and questionably an illusion? Specifically, does the Spell Focus: Illusion apply here? Does he get a +2 to this save, since it's still against an illusion? Is he saving against a 3rd level spell, or a 4th level spell?

Q4: Does the shadowy sleet put out torches?

Q5: Does the Sleet Storm effect last for 11 or 12 rounds? That is to say, does it benefit from the "+1 caster level" provided to Shadow Conjuration from Spell Thematics?

Here are the three spells from the SRD.

Thanks,
Spider


Shadow Conjuration
Illusion (Shadow)
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: See text
Effect: See text
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: Will disbelief (if interacted with); varies (see text)
Spell Resistance: No (see text)
The character uses material from the Plane of Shadow to shape quasi-real illusions of one or more creatures, objects, or forces. Shadow conjuration can mimic any sorcerer or wizard conjuration spell of 3rd level or lower. Shadow conjurations are actually one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things, though creatures who believe the shadow conjurations to be real are affected by them at full strength.
All those that interact with the conjured object, force, or creature can make Will saves to recognize its shadowy nature. Those who succeed do so.
Attack spells have normal effects unless those affected succeed at Will saves. Each disbelieving creature takes only one-fifth damage from the attack. If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. Mimicked spells allow the normal saves and SR.
Shadow objects or substances have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they are one-fifth strength or 20% likely to work.
Shadow creatures have one-fifth the normal hit points (regardless of whether they’re recognized as shadowy). They deal normal damage and have all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature who recognizes them as shadowy, however, such a creature’s damage is one-fifth normal, and all special abilities that do not produce normal damage (in hit points) are only 20% likely to work. (Roll for each use and each affected character separately.) Furthermore, the shadow creature’s AC bonuses are one-fifth as large.
Those who succeed at their saves see the shadow conjurations as transparent images superimposed on vague, shadowy forms.

Sleet Storm
Conjuration (Creation) [Cold]
Level: Drd 4, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Effect: Sleet spreads 40 ft., 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
Spell Resistance: No
Driving sleet blocks all sight (even darkvision) within it and causes the ground in the area to be icy, slowing movement to one-half normal. Additionally, any creature in sleet that attempts to move must succeed at a Reflex save or fall down instead. The sleet extinguishes torches and small fires.

True Seeing
Divination
Level: Clr 5, Drd 7, Knowledge 5, Sor/Wiz 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 minute/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The character confers on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus her vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.
True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not cancel concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic
Additionally, the divine version of this spell allows the subject to see auras, noting alignments of creatures at a glance.
Material Component: Worth at least 250 gp.
 

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Spider said:
Q1: If the wizard rolls really well on a Spellcraft check, and is able to recognize that it's a Shadow Conjuration spell being cast, does he still need to make a Will save to disbelieve it? Or does this fall under the "incontrovertible proof" clause?
The latter. By succeeding on a Spellcraft check, the victim has explicitly figured out that the spell is an illusion, so he automatically disbelieves without having to roll.

If you want to fool spellcasters with illusions, use Silent Spell and/or Still Spell. They can't use Spellcraft unless they see or hear your components.

Q2: Does the cleric automatically recognize that it's an illusion, thanks to his True Seeing?
Yep. True seeing beats any illusion automatically.

Okay, so let's say that the Gnome fails his saving throw. [...] Q3: What spell is he trying to save against now? Shadow Conjuration with a DC of 18 again?
Yes, the save is as for the illusion spell. This is stated in the description of shadow evocation.

I believe Spell Focus: Illusion does apply. This is in fact an illusion spell, even if it imitates a conjuration.

Q4: Does the shadowy sleet put out torches?
There are two possible interpretations. IMO, the sleet storm counts as an "attack spell", and putting out fires would count as a "special effect other than damage." Each round, it would have a 20% chance of extinguishing each torch or fire in the area.

The other interpretation would say that the sleet is a shadow "substance", which "has normal effects except against those who disbelieve [it]." That would let it put out fires just as well as the normal spell. This way doesn't feel right to me, though.


Q5: Does the Sleet Storm effect last for 11 or 12 rounds? That is to say, does it benefit from the "+1 caster level" provided to Shadow Conjuration from Spell Thematics?
It does benefit from that feat. Again, even though it's mimicking some other effect, it's really a shadow conjuration. It gets benefits and penalties (from feats or whatever) according to the actual spell, not the simulated one.
 

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