Shadow Evocation (and other shadow magic) questions

[allenw]

My Halfling Sorcerer will be getting his second 5th-level spell soon, and I'm considering Shadow Evocation, mainly for the extreme versatility (useful for a Sorcerer). However, I've got some questions about the spell (and it's a multi-DM game in which I'm DM about half the time, so "ask the DM" isn't as useful an answer as it might otherwise be):

Does the caster automatically make his save versus his own Illusion (Shadow) spells? Can he choose to fail the save?

What happens if my character creates a Shadow Resilient Sphere around himself, and makes the Will save (automatically or otherwise)? Can he freely cast spells out of the Sphere, and be nigh-immune to spells, effects, and natural weapons from opponents who fail their Will saves? Objects automatically succeed on their Will saves vs. Shadow Evocation, and "Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect," so I assume missile weapons and long melee weapons would automatically penetrate the Sphere in both directions.

If I also got Shadow Conjuration and summoned up a Shadow Phantom Steed, could I ride it even if I made the save? Would its special abilities (air walk, etc.) still work?

If I later got Greater Shadow Conjuration and created a Shadow Wall of Stone, how long would it last (the base spell is "instantaneous," so a normal Wall of Stone would last forever until broken or eroded away)? If someone failed their save but tried to break through it using weapons or tools, would the weapons/tools (being objects) automatically make their save and thus only be able to hit the Wall 60% of the time? And what happens when someone casts Rock to Mud on it?

 

[jabberwocky]

This is how I would interpret the effects:

Saves - SRD: "A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. "
I would consider having cast the spell to be proof that you know the illusion isn't real.

Resilient Sphere question - It does look like it would work the way you describe. The only unclear point I see is whether or not spells would count as objects for purposes of passing through the sphere. What I would personally do is ignore the all or nothing effect as specified in Shadow Evocation and use the 20% chance of effect stated in Shadow Conjuration for nondamaging uses of the spell.

Phantom Steed - From Shadow conjuration description: "It deals normal damage and has all normal abilities and weaknesses. Against a creature that recognizes it as a shadow creature, however, the shadow creature’s damage is one-fifth (20%) normal, and all special abilities that do not deal lethal damage are only 20% likely to work. "
I wouldn't consider riding the phantom steed to be a special ability, so it would work all the time, but things like air walk would only have a 20% chance of being in effect.

Wall of Stone - the duration is also instantaneous, like wall of stone. The objects would pass through the wall of stone 60% of the time without damaging - at that point I would say that the person swinging the pick when it passes harmlessly through the wall has been presented with proof that the wall is illusory and has made his saving throw. The wall now has a 60% chance of preventing him from walking right through it. When rock to mud is cast on the shadow wall, it either automatically turns it to mud, or has a 60% chance of doing so, depending on if the caster has made his save, and whether or not spells count as objects.

 

[FrankTrollman]

The answers on Shadow Conjuration have varied over the years.

The most often, and certainly most playable, answer with regards to the wall of shadow stone is that it lasts forever and has 60% as many hit points as a "real" wall of stone.

Passing through it some of the time and not others is completely impossible to adjudicate - as movement is infinitely differentiable within a single action.

-Frank

 

[KarinsDad]

Shadow spells can be difficult to adjudicate.

However, the simple way to adjudicate them is to pretend that it is just weaker magic of the same effect.

Therefore, the Shadow Conjured Phantom Steed can do normal activities, just not special ones (except 20% of the time). You can still ride it because it is still there.

A Greater Shadow Restoration restores a level 100% of the time if the save is failed, 60% if made. If you have a beneficial spell effect like restoration that you want to succeed, either prevent the recipient from knowing what spell it is (which may be tough if the recipient is a spell caster), or take your chances that he will make the will save and it will not work.

But, if you basically pretend that there is no difference between Shadow Magic and real magic (except the lesser effects if the save is made), adjudicating it is not that hard.


The only down side to this is the last sentence in Shadow Evocation that talks about Web spells. The Webs should be 1/5th the strength which means that most creatures should be able to break through them easier and 5 times faster. I just basically ignore that sentence and consider them to be weak webs.