TSR The Shadow Elves of Mystara

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think that's why in GAZ13, this adaptation is reiterated but also expanded, and tied to The Secret that I mentioned.

One of the best and craziest bits of D&D canon.

I wonder if Sargent ever talked about any of these issues elsewhere.

 

[Chaltab]

Mr. Welch made them a playable subspecies in his 5e Mystara conversion.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Heck, the Forgotten Realms are less interesting than the Greyhawk ones they were initially copied from, because the 2E-era writers (including novelists) basically took one aspect of drow society, photocopied that over and over a thousand times until all other aspects were lost, and we were left with fetish characters as written by people who only seem to have heard about fetishes third-hand.

Wait. The drow had some kind of ... fetish component? OH!!!!!!! I kid. That wasn't subtle. Not that I kinkshame.

As for 2e, there's also the fact that early D&D had a little more leeway to, um, go further than 2e did on some things. So that could also have contributed to "toning down" the "sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me" aspect.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

As for 2e, there's also the fact that early D&D had a little more leeway to, um, go further than 2e did on some things. So that could also have contributed to "toning down" the "sticks and stones may break my bones but whips and chains excite me" aspect.

See, I go the other direction. All of the sexy stuff that the 2E writers got so titillated about, in real life, does not involve a single person with power. It explicitly is about consensual sharing of power.

In the Greyhawk version of things, the ruling priestesses weren't the only power center in the Vault of the Drow. There was a place for powerful men, another powerful religion, additional ethnic groups, etc.

Even if there was just an acknowledgement that the Forgotten Realms drow matriarchy requires an implicit consent of the governed to function, it wouldn't be so cringeworthy and (here's that word again!) misogynistic as it was.

Instead, all of the nuance from what is a very lightly described city in D3 is tossed out in favor of more corsets and more whips.

I think if there had been a World Wide Web back in the day where TSR writers could have educated themselves about this stuff in the comfort of their own homes, it would likely have been much better. (And maybe even sexier, for those where that's a big selling point for the drow.)

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Bruce Heard was the line manager for the Known World and line of these Gazetteers. Right? I wonder if he has any statement about the development of these shadow elves.

He’s still around, right?

 

[dave2008]

The single biggest hole in my collection of TSR-era D&D stuff is from the Known World line. I really need to start buying more of those products, but since I refuse to get PDFs or PoD copies, buying the old stuff in good condition can get expensive quick.

You can get GAZ13 The Shadow Elves in softcover from DMs Guild. Probably a lot more Known World stuff too.

Edit: I just checked and a bunch of Mystara stuff is available PoD on the Guild.

 

[CleverNickName]

Bruce Heard was the line manager for the Known World and line of these Gazetteers. Right? I wonder if he has any statement about the development of these shadow elves.

He’s still around, right?

Yep, he's still around. You can follow his BECMI group on Facebook; he posts regularly there.

 

[dbolack]

So, I don't see an answer to the question. Anyone have any ideas as to why the shadow elves are paler than normal elves, and definitely different than the drow?

My supposition is that ... it makes sense, BECAUSE YOU WILL LOSE COLORING IN THE DARK, but is there anything else? Any evidence that someone at the time looked at the drow, and was like, "Naw."

It's been a while since I have read it, but I seem to recall it is also related to the BIG SECRET.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's been a while since I have read it, but I seem to recall it is also related to the BIG SECRET.

Is it radiance related?

It's been a while.

 

[dbolack]

Is it radiance related?

It's been a while.

That's what I remember but could not spot the reference in a quick reread