Shadow magic on (nonanimated) objects

[Particle_Man]

If a shadow evocation spell with 20% reality is cast at an object (let's say a tree). What happens:

a) The tree is affected by the spell at 20% power, no save needed.
b) The tree is affected by the spell at full power, no save allowed.
c) The tree gets a will save when the tree interacts with the spell.

I would go with option b, because looking at option c, I don't think that the tree, or any other object, "interacts" with anything, nor is a will save stat usually listed with objects like trees. (As opposed to creatures like animated objects). So no save allowed, so full power to the shadow spell.

I could see people going the other way, saying that it is the victim's belief that gives the shadow spell its power over the victim. But I would say, rather, that it is the victim's disbelief that gives the victim power over the shadow spell.

Just my take on it.

And just to hijack my own thread...

It gets more interesting when shadow evocation is used to create a torch. Those who fail their will save actually get more benefit (greater range of illumination) from the torch than those who make their will saves.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Having a sorceror myself who dependson shadow magic it pains me to say that the option "A" is the correct one. They clarified in 3.5, I dont have my books with me at the moment though, that inanimate objects are always treated as making their will saves for purposes of dealing with shadow magic. It still causes some damage because 20% is totally real, but the rest is illusion and will only affect a something that fails a will save to disbelieve.

 

[AuraSeer]

As I posted in the other thread, shadow evocation and shadow conjuration specify that objects automatically succeed on their Will saves. That's your option A.

This isn't specified in the general description of Illusion(Shadow) spells, so there might be some other quasi-real effects that make objects roll their saves normally. So for the general case, it could be either A or C.

It gets more interesting when shadow evocation is used to create a torch. Those who fail their will save actually get more benefit (greater range of illumination) from the torch than those who make their will saves.

You can always intentionally fail a saving throw.

 

[KarinsDad]

You can always intentionally fail a saving throw.

How can you intentionally fail a saving throw after you have already unintentionally made the saving throw?

In the case of the illusionary torch, unless an ally tells you that he is doing that, there is no knowledge of it being beneficial, hence, no knowledge of wanting to fail the save.

I just chalk this up as one of the flukes of DND illusion spells.

 

[Particle_Man]

Having a sorceror myself who dependson shadow magic it pains me to say that the option "A" is the correct one.

But...but...how will my illusionist ever defeat the Gazebo now?

 

[Otterscrubber]

How can you intentionally fail a saving throw after you have already unintentionally made the saving throw?

In the case of the illusionary torch, unless an ally tells you that he is doing that, there is no knowledge of it being beneficial, hence, no knowledge of wanting to fail the save.

I just chalk this up as one of the flukes of DND illusion spells.

Well from my understanding of illusions you would not have to fail the saving throw for the torch because you dont get one in the first place unless you interact with, ie handle or do something with the torch. Simply looking at an illusion is not interacting with it.

Ah....the dreaded Gazebo. You're on yer own on that one...

 

[AuraSeer]

How can you intentionally fail a saving throw after you have already unintentionally made the saving throw?

In the case of the illusionary torch, unless an ally tells you that he is doing that, there is no knowledge of it being beneficial, hence, no knowledge of wanting to fail the save.

Yeah, that's the problem. You need the wizard to tell you not to resist his next upcoming spell. If he doesn't warn you, you make the die roll and have a chance of accidentally succeeding.

You also need to make sure you don't try a Spellcraft check to identify the spell being cast. If know the spell is an illusion, you automatically succeed on your save to disbelieve.

It's really much simpler just to cast light in the first place.