Shadow Veil [MIC]: Utterly useless?

[TKDB]

Perhaps this is just an issue with 3.5 being a little too vague on issues of illumination, but it strikes me that the Shadow Veil item from MIC is in fact far worse than it appears at first glance.
The item states that you gain concealment against any creature that relies on light as long as you're in a shadowy area...but according to the rules for illumination, that's already the case without the item:

In an area of shadowy illumination, a character can see dimly. Creatures within this area have concealment relative to that character. A creature in an area of shadowy illumination can make a Hide check to conceal itself.

The only benefit I see to this item (aside from the small deflection bonus to AC) is that it stops low-light vision. Doesn't exactly strike me as enough to justify the 16,000 gp price tag, especially given that the item's only other effect can be had as a ring for a mere 2000 gp.
And the worst part is, it looks like they actually nerfed the MIC version from the original one in LM. The LM version is 6000 gp cheaper and gives +2 deflection instead of +1.

 

[kitcik]

You're paying the 16K GP to make your DM admit that shadowy areas actually exist.

 

[Greenfield]

We're currently facing one of the paradoxes of 3.5: Darkness.

The DM has created an area where the Abyss is intruding onto the Prime Material. The area is miles across and growing, and it's in total darkness. 100% black-as-the-inside-of-a-black-cat-at-midnight kind of black, and no Light spell we can bring up is helping. We joked that the Abyss is obviously ancient because it has a pre-3.* Darkness in it.

We pointed out though that the various Darkness spells render a "shadowy illumination" that allows us to see within the area. And because it isn't a Light spell, it isn't automatically extinguished by the Abyssal Darkness.

So the paradox is that Darkness allows you to see in darkness, even when Light won't. (Note the placement of the capital letters, and it almost makes sense).

And yeah, I know this is a tangent of sorts, but it's almost on topic and far too silly to ignore.

 

[TKDB]

I had no idea that Darkness actually left some illumination. Everyone I've ever played with has automatically assumed it was total darkness, and played it as such. Very odd...

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It's a balance issue. Darkness spells not leaving illumination makes them effective a wide area moveable blindness effect with long duration against most creatures. It would be utterly freaking broken to have it work like that. So, they have it create dim illumination solely for the purpose of balance...

IIRC it worked as advertised on the cover in 3.0, and it being ludicrously OP is why it was changed.

 

[Greenfield]

Yeah, it's better labeled as Dimness than Darkness.

As mentioned, our DM was going to have us march a full day's travel, through coastal Scotland, in pitch-black darkness that couldn't be penetrated.

The only guide to get where we were going would be to try and stay on the road, mostly by feel, and hope we didn't make a wrong turn. He also had the road laced with magical booby traps.

Once we got a Deeper Darkness up, which gave us a 40 foot diameter circle in which we could see (dimly) the main challenge of his entire scenario evaporated. He was having us hit by wandering groups of zombies and other lesser undead, but once line-of-sight became possible our Cleric just dusted them.

The DM decided to fast-forward the entire journey, and then to drop the Darkness effect altogether when we reached the city. He realized that he needed his city guards to be able to see us if they were to be effective.

We finished the scenario in one sitting, which was less than half the time he had anticipated.

What surprised us was that he didn't know that Darkness isn't pitch-black any more. He missed our jokes about this being an "ancient curse dating back to 1st Edition". He hadn't realized that what he was doing flatly didn't exist under the rules, except under Rule Zero.

Long story short, we got a little Exp (not much, since the opponents were all CR 5 and 6 up until the end), a bit of loot (haven't appraised or Identified yet), a few stat points to recover (a "creeping madness" effect that had us roll Will saves to avoid Wisdom loss), and a more or less walkover fight.

And oh yeah, my character ended up in Hell. But he'll be back momentarily, presuming that that his current Wisdom of 4 will allow him to throw Dismissal on himself.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Today, 02:19 AM #8 (permalink)
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[Sekhmet]

Things

Players: Destroying everything a DM has ever painstakingly planned out since 1974.

 

[Greenfield]

I used to pride myself on the "Module Destruction Alert" maneuver, where I as a player suggest a simple, direct solution that unravels the entire plot line of a game.

There was a Shadow Run module called Mercurial, where the PCs are supposed to body guard a rock star for a week, keep her out of sight and out of trouble until her current contract runs out.

I suggested an Alaska cruise. Bad guys can't even get on the ship once it leaves port.

The DM and I agreed that that suggestion had never been made, because it completely bypassed every planned scene in the module.

Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh? A simple act of arson removes the problem completely (along with the haunted house).

Drop a ring into a mountain? [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU]How Lord of The Rings Should Have Ended - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Loonook]

It's a balance issue. Darkness spells not leaving illumination makes them effective a wide area moveable blindness effect with long duration against most creatures. It would be utterly freaking broken to have it work like that. So, they have it create dim illumination solely for the purpose of balance...

IIRC it worked as advertised on the cover in 3.0, and it being ludicrously OP is why it was changed.

Was not an issue when darkness was just not tasked to an object but a radius. The balance issue was not with the effect of darkness but the placement on a location...

Slainte,

-Loonook.