Shamans?

[Drowbane]

Bump!!

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[Nyaricus]

Good stuff Nyaricus!!

thanks for the complement, but have any feedback on how to get change my Celtic Druid into a Shaman class?

while we are at it, if we dont just want to change one class into another (by changine abilities etc, [not counting roleplaying > Drowbane, you have a good point about how much roleplaying will effect the "nature of the beast," but i think what *most* of us would like here is a nice, orignal class with its own flavour incorperated into it. After all, not all things are appropriate for all classes]) we here, with out infinite imaginantions, could very well create our own core class. I am at highschool right now, so i dont have my books on me, but a few common sense things come to mind:

-HD: id say either d6 or d8, depending on what the end result looks like (id even favour d6, since so many casters are d4 or d8)
-BAB: depends; id say 3/4; but depending on end result, this could be dropped to 1/2
-Saves: easy here> good Fort and Will, bad Ref. if using medium saves, it stays the same
-Spells: Divine, probably the druid spell list (with a few exceptions as needed)
-Armour and Weapon profs: another tough descision here. probably, id make em look similar to the profs i gave my druid, with minor adjustments. Light or medium armour max
-Skills>probably not as skillful as my druid; drop to 4/level and drop a few of the unneeded skills that my druid has.
as for specific abilities, we will have to scour the druid, ranger, spirit shaman and others as needed; but since shamanism is generally about evil vs good, and spirits, and how all that interacts, we will need alot of original ideas

anyways, the bell just rang; gotta go. hope this helps untill i get my books at home

 

[Shades of Green]

thanks for the complement, but have any feedback on how to get change my Celtic Druid into a Shaman class?

while we are at it, if we dont just want to change one class into another (by changine abilities etc, [not counting roleplaying > Drowbane, you have a good point about how much roleplaying will effect the "nature of the beast," but i think what *most* of us would like here is a nice, orignal class with its own flavour incorperated into it. After all, not all things are appropriate for all classes]) we here, with out infinite imaginantions, could very well create our own core class. I am at highschool right now, so i dont have my books on me, but a few common sense things come to mind:

HD: id say either d6 or d8, depending on what the end result looks like (id even favour d6, since so many casters are d4 or d8)

d6 is OK, though shamans in many tribal cultures are required to take part in day-to-day hunting and work, and in some cases have to lead the hunt, and thus will require d8; For a less "barbarian cleric", and more of a spirit-talker and spirit-hunter, d6 will probably suffice.

BAB: depends; id say 3/4; but depending on end result, this could be dropped to 1/2

Again, depends on the desired flavor; 3/4 (as Druid) seems fair, as a shaman, even if not from a stereotypical warlike "barbarian" tribe, will have to survive on his own in the wilds. He isn't a warrior, but he can hunt, and can survive (or evade) encounters with various beasts.

Saves: easy here> good Fort and Will, bad Ref. if using medium saves, it stays the same

Yes, as Druid, and fine.

spells: Divine, probably the druid spell list (with a few exceptions as needed)

I think that the Shaman should be less adept in spellcasting than a Cleric; his strength is with spirits (?) and their cunjuration (?) rather than with flashiness. Subtle magic, alot of outsider-related stuff, healing, and divinations. And charms, ofcourse; a Shaman isn't a passive helper. Also remember to leave some room for urban life; a large city's sewers might be a home of a Shaman as much as the jungle or plains may be.

Armour and Weapon profs: another tough descision here. probably, id make em look similar to the profs i gave my druid, with minor adjustments. Light or medium armour max

All simple weapons, shields and Light Armor should be OK, though you might want to get rid of the more "technological" weapons, such as crossbows and gauntlets.

Skills>probably not as skillful as my druid; drop to 4/level and drop a few of the unneeded skills that my druid has.

I'd say 3 + Int modifier per level (3 + Int modifier)x4 initial); adding hunting-related skills (Hide, Listen, Spot and Move Silently) might also be fitting for a more wilderness/tribal kind of a Shaman.

as for specific abilities, we will have to scour the druid, ranger, spirit shaman and others as needed; but since shamanism is generally about evil vs good, and spirits, and how all that interacts, we will need alot of original ideas

I think that the Shaman should be less Nature-oriented and more Spirit-oriented than the Druid; turning/commanding "spirits" (outsiders and incorporeal creatures?) as a cleric turns/commands undead is an option. Shapeshifting would probably be unfitting, too.

 

[Coredump]

The Kalamar Players Guide has a well done Shaman as a base class. Totems and everything.

One of my players has one right now, and seems to be having plenty of fun with it. We also have a druid, so there is some love/hate happening...

 

[lin_fusan]

Shamans

I'm going to toot my own horn by blatant self-promotion and suggest a shaman PrC in Dragon #323 that I wrote up. It's 5-level and mostly flavor. Unfortunately, it's pre-3.5 so I don't remember if any of the special abilities hold up.

 

[Greg K]

Here is my druid variant. It was originally posted on Sean Reynolds Message boards 11/03/03 ane here at ENWorld on 7/27/04

The druid is a priest found among certain "barbarian tribes or clans" where they tendi the religious needs of their people and interpreti the will of the gods. In addition, to their roles as religoius leaders, druids often serve as judge,scholar, teacher and diplomat for their people. Their initial training is similar to bards in that they learn the history and lore of their people through song, poetry, and music. However, unlike the bard, the druid chooses to undergo an ordeal and complete his training as a priest.

In addition to their normal duties, druids seek to understand the nature of the universe believing unraveling its secrets allows the druid to manipulate the universe itself. To this end, they seek out riddles, puzzles, and mysteries that grant them additional insight . Amongst each other, druids often exchange answers to questions in the form of a riddle to be solved. They even go as far as presenting answers to non-druids in the form of riddles which gives them an air of mystery among non-druids and leads others to a believe that nothing is as it seems when dealing with druids.

Druid: As Cloistered Cleric (UA), but with the following changes.
Replace Knowledge Domain with Divination (3.0)/Oracle (3.5)
Extra Domains: Charm, Illusion
Use Druid spell list instead of cleric list
Use Druid skills with the following additions: Decipher Script, Knowledge (Arcane, Local, Religion), Perform, Sense Motive, Speak Language
Additional Spells:
First: Bless, Command, Comprehend Languages, Hypnotism
Second: Augury, Calm Emotion, Enthrall, Tongues
Third: Hold Person, Prayer, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Remove Curse
Fourth: Bestow Curse, Discern Lies, Divination, Mark of Justice, Spell Immunity
Fifth: Break Enchantment, Commune, Legend Lore

 

[Nyaricus]

d6 is OK, though shamans in many tribal cultures are required to take part in day-to-day hunting and work, and in some cases have to lead the hunt, and thus will require d8; For a less "barbarian cleric", and more of a spirit-talker and spirit-hunter, d6 will probably suffice.

yeah, i am kinda split on this. depends where the flavour is. Shades of Green, feedback, please.

Again, depends on the desired flavor; 3/4 (as Druid) seems fair, as a shaman, even if not from a stereotypical warlike "barbarian" tribe, will have to survive on his own in the wilds. He isn't a warrior, but he can hunt, and can survive (or evade) encounters with various beasts.

now that you say it, 3/4 sounds fair. stick with it.

I think that the Shaman should be less adept in spellcasting than a Cleric; his strength is with spirits (?) and their conjuration (?) rather than with flashiness. Subtle magic, alot of outsider-related stuff, healing, and divinations. And charms, ofcourse; a Shaman isn't a passive helper.

yes, maybe have him cast spells as per the bard? i guess this depends on overall class balance, but we need to think about what sort of passive abilities we give him (clerics get turning, druids get a plethora of abilities, wizards get feats, etc). Shades of Green>full or partial caster??

Also remember to leave some room for urban life; a large city's sewers might be a home of a Shaman as much as the jungle or plains may be.

true, but alot of this can be done with RPing; the (main) point here is a primitive "proto-druid" as you aptly called him. the druid of the PHB is a very focused class in regards to the niche he fills. we are going for a bit more general with the shaman, with alot of spirit overtones and such.

All simple weapons, shields and Light Armor should be OK, though you might want to get rid of the more "technological" weapons, such as crossbows and gauntlets.

id say a "flavoured" list of weapons would be appropriate here. Even better would be weapon groups, but if we are going by-the-books i say have them prof with the following: dagger, sickle, club, shortspear, quarterstaff, spear, dart, javalin, sling, shortbows, bolas and net. these help instill the feel of a primitive, hunter-gatherer sort of people. for armours, i wouldnt have any specific stigma on using metal armours, but i am almost tempted to have medium armours.

I'd say 3 + Int modifier per level (3 + Int modifier)x4 initial); adding hunting-related skills (Hide, Listen, Spot and Move Silently) might also be fitting for a more wilderness/tribal kind of a Shaman.

i agree with you on which specific skills should be included, but i would shie away from give an odd number out. we should try to standardize where we can, and i think 4+int wont be too terrible at all

I think that the Shaman should be less Nature-oriented and more Spirit-oriented than the Druid;/QUOTE]
i completely agree. while the Shaman lives in natural surrounds all the time, he doesnt worship it; instead he is all about the spirits that live there.

turning/commanding "spirits" (outsiders and incorporeal creatures?) as a cleric turns/commands undead is an option. Shapeshifting would probably be unfitting, too.

spirits are defined in Complete Divine as any of the following:

-all incorporeal undead
-all fey
-all elementals
-creatures in astral form or with astral bodies(but not a creature physically present on the astral plane)
-all of the creatures of the spirit subtype(see OA)
-Spirit Folk and Tethlors(see UE)
-spirit creatures created by spells such as dreamsight or wood wose (see chapter 7 of CD)

outsiders wouldnt be appropriate; even clerics dont get that (though it makes sens that they would, but thast another post)

 

[Greg K]

d6 is OK, though shamans in many tribal cultures are required to take part in day-to-day hunting and work, and in some cases have to lead the hunt, and thus will require d8; For a less "barbarian cleric", and more of a spirit-talker and spirit-hunter, d6 will probably suffice.

Did Shaman's usually take part as true hunters and do day to day work in many cultures? I was under the impression that one of the characteristics of Shamanism is that Shamans were the first full-time occupational specialists found in a culture and, as an occupational specialist, their role generally excludes them from the role of hunter with the Shaman relying on others to do the actual hunting and provide them with food.
Again, my understanding was that the shaman's role in the hunt as leader was typically in a capacity to use their magic to aid in the hunt, because thier magic was deemed important to a hunt's success. The hunters relied on the shaman to use his or her magic to bless the hunters, the hunt itself and summon the animals; should the Shaman accompany a hunting party as leader, they used their magic to lure the animals to a spot. Without a Shaman to bless the hunt, hunters in many cultures actually postponed the hunt until a Shaman could be found.

 

[Laman Stahros]

spirits are defined in Complete Divine as any of the following:

-all incorporeal undead
-all fey
-all elementals
-creatures in astral form or with astral bodies(but not a creature physically present on the astral plane)
-all of the creatures of the spirit subtype(see OA)
-Spirit Folk and Tethlors(see UE)
-spirit creatures created by spells such as dreamsight or wood wose (see chapter 7 of CD)

outsiders wouldnt be appropriate; even clerics dont get that (though it makes sens that they would, but thast another post)

FYI, OA lists all outsiders as of the spirit subtype.

 

[Storyteller01]

Prefer GR's Shaman, but if your interested in a nice PrC, check out the Hoodoo from Hero's of High Favor: Half-Orcs. It's a Barbarian/Wizard mix that gives some nice abilities (Giving a critter you summoned one of your rages is always fun).

It's out on PDF somewhere. $6 I believe.