Shapechange and Animal Companions.

[SoulStorm]

By the rules, a Druid can use Share Spell to cast personal range spells on their Animal Companions. What happens if you cast Shapechange on your Animal Companion? Will it be confused by a new body? Will it be able to use the abilities of the body? Will it be able to change into different creatures as a free action once per round? I guess the question ultimately is would the use of the spell be instinctual or cognitive? I'd like to get some thoughts.

Thanks,

 

[SoulStorm]

Hello... is this thing on?

 

[gfunk]

I'm of the opinion that Shapechange is broken enough as it is, w/o the headache of using the Share Spells feature. But, if it was my campaign, I would say that an animal companion with an Int of less than 3 cannot really do anything with this spell.

Sor/Wiz Familiars, on the other had, are pretty darned intelligent when their masters gain access to this spell...

 

[Dark Dragon]

I'm of the opinion that Shapechange is broken enough as it is, w/o the headache of using the Share Spells feature. But, if it was my campaign, I would say that an animal companion with an Int of less than 3 cannot really do anything with this spell.

Sor/Wiz Familiars, on the other had, are pretty darned intelligent when their masters gain access to this spell...

Hmmm, what about an animal companion buffed with Fox's Cunning? It would have INT 6...
Anyway, it seems to be very nasty to shapechange the druid and his animal. I'd rule it that's not possible to "twin" this spell. Shapechange is a very powerful spell (close to be broken, IMO), no need to push it over the edge.

 

[youspoonybard]

Hmmm, what about an animal companion buffed with Fox's Cunning? It would have INT 6...
Anyway, it seems to be very nasty to shapechange the druid and his animal. I'd rule it that's not possible to "twin" this spell. Shapechange is a very powerful spell (close to be broken, IMO), no need to push it over the edge.

Remember the 5' restriction, though...

 

[SoulStorm]

The 5' rule only applies if you're casting the spell on yourself and you want your companion to benefit from the spell as well. The spell works for the normal duration if you cast it on the companion.

 

[jgsugden]

If a human that suddenly turns into a snake can move normally, I see no problem with an animal being able to move normally when in shapechanged form. At least, I see no problem with them instinctively knowing how to use their new body.

They'd probably be freaked out by the change. They should probably be freaked out any time a druid makes them suddenly grow, gain stoneskin, walk into a tree, gain true sight, walk on the wind, gain foresight, gain the ability to spider climb, etc ... If a DM wants to require it, perhaps a 'trick' can be taught to the animal to accept spells and not freak out.

In the end, the animal should still act as it normally does, though. It should maintain its own personality. If the druid has a wolf for his animal companion, the wolf should act like that wolf, even when changed into an ancient red wyrm. The change in perception may also lead to some misunderstandings. After all, the druid doesn't normally get upset when the wolf pounces on a mouse or other small creature. Why would the druid get upset if the ancient red wyrm shaped wolf pounced on the apparently mouse sized human? And the druid doesn't get mad if the wolf lifts its leg on a small box, why would the druid be upset if the ancient red wyrm shaped wolf lifts its leg on a house shaped box?

 

[FrankTrollman]

Yes. The Shapechanged Animal can operate all of its abilities normally. When you transform into an eagle you can fly right off - even though the real eagle took months to learn how to fly in the first place.

Presumably, Shapechange comes with a magical how-to guide on how the body works so you just ambiently know how to stab people with your new pinchers in the same way as you currently can reach out and open a door without thinking about it.
---
However, Shapechange is still broken beyond belief.

You can combine it with Magic Jar and create hundreds of Phoenixes (possess someone, transform into a phoenix, blow "yourself" up, create a new Phoenix, go back into the jar, repeat).

You can mine the 3.5 Balor for infinite Vorpal Swords (pieces removed from a shapechanged creature retain their form indefinatel, and the vorpal sword is a Su ability for some stupid reason).

You can transform into a Chronotyrin and act twice per round and make unlimited Adamantine.

etc.

The new Shapechange allows multiple infinite wealth loops as well as multiple ways to gain power and abilities which are unbalanced at Epic levels.

Transforming your animal companions doesn't break this spell - the spell is already broken.

-Frank

 

[SoulStorm]

jgsugden

Good points.

To those discussing the veracity of Shapechange, that isn't really the topic of this thread. I'm well aware of how some people feel about the spell. Nor am I interested in how you would change the spell or uses of the spell because you don't like it. I believe that would be under the province of the house rules forum.

FrankTrollman

Many of the tactics mentioned absolutely defy logic and from my perspective exceed the intended uses of the spell. I couldn't even imagine trying some of that stuff. This thread isn't about that, it's about a very straight forward use of the Druid's abilities and the logical effect such use would have.

More perspectives such as jgsugden's would be appreciated.

Thanks,