Shapechange & Epic creatures

[Quartz]

I was looking at this thread and the most recent entry describes an epic spellcaster Shapechanging into an epic creature. It set me thinking. Since Shapechange is a non-epic spell, can you use it to change into an epic creature? I'd say not. I'd say you need an epic variant.

 

[Imre]

With a 50 HD cap, I would say the spell would certainly allow epic creatures. Considering the fact that you have to become a standard (ie non-advanced) specimen of a given creature, there's no way you could reach that cap with non-epic creatures.

That said, I would certainly think it reasonable to impose RP limitations. For instance, Wild Shape requires that you be familiar with the animal you'd like to turn into. This is a reasonable limitation to adopt and considering the rarity of epic creatures in a standard D&D world, it would require some serious resources (read "questing") on the part of the players.

 

[Quartz]

The cap's 25HD, per the SRD. Only just epic.

 

[Imre]

PHB 277: "The assumed form cannot have more than twice your caster level in HD (to a maximum of 50 HD)"

So the max caster level would be 25, not the max HD.

 

[Patlin]

I believe erratta changed it from 2x CL in HD to 1x CL in HD.

 

[saucercrab]

I was looking at this thread and the most recent entry describes an epic spellcaster Shapechanging into an epic creature. It set me thinking. Since Shapechange is a non-epic spell, can you use it to change into an epic creature? I'd say not. I'd say you need an epic variant.

I think it could be used to shape into epic creatures (within the HD limits), if only because the "epic" in epic monster isn't a direct game mechanic.

A solar is a viable form for shapechange, & it could be considered epic (with the HD & DR & all). I think the klurichir (sp?) is another example.