Shifter munchkininess

[Cheiromancer]

I'm working on a stable of characters to use as PC's (if I'm playing) or NPC's (if I'm DMing). I've spent some time looking at the Shifter prestige class from Masters of the Wild, and I noticed two forms that seem a little too good. The problem seems to be that SR is an Extraordinary ability (granted by Greater Wildshape), and so is fast healing. Here are the forms:

Svirfneblin
small humanoid
8 str, 12 dex
20 ft. move darkvision 120 ft.
stonecunning (+2 on checks to notice unusual stonework)
SR = 11 + character level
+4 dodge bonus vs all creatures
+2 bonus to all saves
+2 bonus to hide, +4 in underground darkened areas

Dekanter Goblin
Medium-Size Monstrous Humanoid
17 str, 12 dex
20 ft. move, darkvision 60 feet
Fast Healing 3, cold resistance 5
+4 natural armor

A qualified wizard or druid can take a level of shifter and thereafter he can go around all day in Svirfneblin form. That's a +3 ECL. Another level of shifter, and he gets Fast Healing 3; good strength, cold resistance and natural armor are all icing on the cake.

I'm thinking that the level adjustment should not exceed the level of shifter, as given by Savage Species. Is this reasonable, or does it weaken the shifter too much? Perhaps it should replace the size/type restrictions given for the class?

Another way to get around it is to play the "creature familiarity" card- as a DM just say that the character has never heard of a Dekanter Goblin. I don't want to make up a system of rules that indicates what shapes a character is familiar with. Especially if a character has other shifters as mentors, knows wizards who can polymorph other, etc..

Opinions?

 

[SylverFlame]

3.5e is going to be revamping the poly spells. As a DM just have a moratorium on the Shifter until you can check out the changes. If you like what you see, just house rule the wild shape ability to match some of the details. Adds restrictions without nerfing anything. Could work. Good luck.

Of course, you could just leave the rules as are and find a good counter point. For instance, make a spell that forces creatures to revert to their base form and cause damage at the same time. It existed in the Complete Wizards Handbook (2e), I think at least. Could be fun. Good luck again.

 

[Stalker0]

Munchkining the shifter is like munchkining the original mecurial greatsword... its just so easy

 

[GenLang]

Another way to get around it is to play the "creature familiarity" card- as a DM just say that the character has never heard of a Dekanter Goblin. I don't want to make up a system of rules that indicates what shapes a character is familiar with. Especially if a character has other shifters as mentors, knows wizards who can polymorph other, etc..

Opinions?

I believe rules already exist for 'familiarity': spending a day studying the creature, or fight it in combat. IIRC, it says this in either the PHB for the druid's shifting ability, or MotW for the Greater shifting ability. I don't have my books available to confirm, alas.

[Edit: Stupid typos.]

 

[Cheiromancer]

Re: Re: Shifter munchkininess

I believe rules already exist for 'familiarity': spending a day stidying the creature, or fighting it in combat. IIRC, it says this in either the PHB for the druid's shifting ability, or MotW for the Greater shifting ability. I don't have my books available to confirm, alas.

Suppose I'm building a 10th level character. Can you tell me what monsters I've fought or studied during my career? I'll make it easy- suppose I've gone through WOTC's adventure series (I don't own the modules, but the Forge of Fury, the Standing Stone, all that bunch). What monsters have I encountered?

Suppose in the party there is a wizard with Polymorph Other. Can he turn familiar monsters into other monsters so that I can fight them? Even if he is bound by familiarity rules, you need to work out a list of what monsters he has fought, and so can teach to me.

There is also a bard in the adventuring group. Has he ever heard of a Svirfneblin, or a Dekanter Goblin? Does he have enough information for us to track them down and actually meet them?

It's considerations like these that I'm leery of getting into.

 

[Soldarin]

Try a stone golem (yes, you ARE magic immune).

 

[Hand of Vecna]

Has there been any work done on an Epic version of the Shifter PrC? I've not found any on the WotC site (it would've fit in perfectly with the Epic Transformational PrC's article).

 

[Malin Genie]

SR, like DR, is actually (Su) rather than (Ex) IIRC

That solves half your problem.

The Shifter class is, even taking that into account, quite breakable by creative players (if not inherently broken) and should be removed if your players show the slightest hint of Munchkin's Disease.

That solves the other half ^^

 

[Dark Dragon]

SR, like DR, is actually (Su) rather than (Ex) IIRC

That solves half your problem.

The Shifter class is, even taking that into account, quite breakable by creative players (if not inherently broken) and should be removed if your players show the slightest hint of Munchkin's Disease.

That solves the other half ^^

SR is (Ex), DR is (Su). The shifter can take only forms he has fought or studied for a day. After all, it depends on the DM how powerful a shifter will be. An additional problem is a possible DR of certain opponents, which is difficult for a shifter to overcome. 3.5 will lessen but not remove that problem.

 

[handforged]

The Shifter Bible

This post on the WotC Min/Max boards is a massive list of various forms a shifter could take at each level and describes the benefits of each. The TRICK they describe is using a wording combination between the Druid Wildshaping ability and the Shifter's Greater Wildshape ability to avoid all restrictions when wildshaping.

~hf