Shifter PrC Questions

[JesterPoet]

I have a player in my group that is using the shifter PrC. I need to know how to determine what shapes he can take. Realistically, it seems that he can only take shapes of things he's seen before, but I'm not sure how to determine what he has seen.

He's 10th level and a Gnome. He now spends most of his time in Troll form (he can hold a form for 10 hours/day) so he's got regeneration and such. It gives him the best of both worlds, as he's now effectively a tank, yet has the high will and such of a Druid.

He's interested in using these forms now:

Griffon
Girallion
Chimera
Grey Render

My thoughts are that all of them are things he's unlikely to have seen, though he's got a high Knowledge: Nature

He suggested setting up a DC that he can check his knowledge: nature against to see if he knows a given creature. That seems like a good idea, but I don't know what to base the DC on...

I have to admit, I know next to nothing about the PrC itself. I could be missing something, but he's always honest with me, so I trust his judgement.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Piratecat]

I'll slide this over to Rules.

 

[Mercule]

He's 10th level and a Gnome. He now spends most of his time in Troll form (he can hold a form for 10 hours/day) so he's got regeneration and such.

Unless you've modified the class, there is no restriction on how long he can hold a form. One of the character concepts I've been dying to try out since the book was released is a Shifter who has spent so much time in alternate forms that he (she?) is really not possitive what his original form is.

That aside, it rather depends on what sort of game you're running. Some people play games that allow all rulebooks, including MM, to be open to the players at all times. Others say that, beyond the PC races, if it hasn't come up in the campaign or was explicitly mentioned in the backstory, you don't know what it is. Most fall somewhere in between.

The easiest method I've seen to determine who knows what is with Knowledge skills. KS: Nature lets you identify animals and plants and maybe magical beasts. KS: Dungeoneering (or KS: Underdark) lets you identify aberations and maybe magical beasts. KS: Planes lets you identify outsiders. And so on and so forth.

In most settings (Greyhawk and FR at the least) griffins are common enough that I'd give it to him. At the least, it should be an easy KS: Nature check. Chimera probably a bit more difficult and Girallon yet moreso, but both potential with KS: Nature. The Grey Render would probably be rather obscure lore that falls under KS: Dungeoneering.

FWIW, I definitely think that limiting him to forms that he's seen is a fair ruling. Doing otherwise strains suspension of disbelief in most games.

 

[JesterPoet]

I'll slide this over to Rules.

My apologies


In response to Mercule... I guess what really gets me is that the class seems overpowered. However, I have a good deal of faith in the WoTC books not to overpower their prestige classes, which is what makes me think there's just something I'm not getting here....

 

[Dwarmaj]

Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5? In 3.5 the Shifter doesn't get the Ex Abilities of the forms they take, so no regeneration.

The DM has total control over what the Shifter is familiar with. What we did in my group is give the shifter two forms/level, the rest they have to adventure for and encounter during game play. It's a lot easier than assigning Knowledge "?" checks to every monster in the book. Also, have the player maintain a list as to what forms they know.

I play the Shifter in my group and it's a great class in 3.0. Under 3.5 rules the shifter is totally out classed by a straight druid when you get to the upper levels .

 

[JesterPoet]

Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5? In 3.5 the Shifter doesn't get the Ex Abilities of the forms they take, so no regeneration.

Where do I find that info? We play 3.5. I haven't seen a reference to that.

 

[Dark Dragon]

I suppose that the player plays a druidic shifter (thus merging wild shape with greater wild shape from the shifter PrC).

To answer your reference question, look at the new 3.5 wild shape of the druid (in the PHB). It refers to Polymorph and that refers to Alter Self. It's quite clear that extraordinary abilities aren't available to a druid (and thus to a shifter) anymore, breaking down the prestige class...

If you play with the MotW rules (and the wild shape version there), you're fine. A shifter is quite powerful, but will fade a bit if compared to a druid using 3.5 Shapechange.

I'm playing a shifter (using 3.0 wild shape in 3.5 ed.) and he can take all forms of monsters he has battled or studied for a whole day. So it's up to the DM how powerful the shifter will be. Our shifter version doesn't get any feats of those monsters except racial feats (house rule), but he gets all extraordinary abilities.

 

[Mercule]

In response to Mercule... I guess what really gets me is that the class seems overpowered. However, I have a good deal of faith in the WoTC books not to overpower their prestige classes, which is what makes me think there's just something I'm not getting here....

When I first looked at the class, my concern was that it would be _under_ powered compared to a straight druid. I just think it would be interesting to try. I haven't moved to 3.5 yet, but if extraordinary abilities are taken away from the Shifter, then I would definitely say the class would be too weak.

Maybe that should be a power gained by the Shifter as it gets converted to 3.5. Say, at 5th level -- "Extraordinary shape"? Just a random thought.

 

[isoChron]

Shifter is a yes or no class.
Shifter WITH access to the Ex-abilities is a straight yes.
You can become a real killing machine as a fell troll or later as outsider. With the support of some druid levels (for protection spells like barkskin and elemental protections) it is a good choice for shapechange loving players.

If you play 3.5 with the 3.5 wildshape (read limited polymorph) you can straight forget this class. Go for shapechange or take a wizard with lots of polymorph self.

BYE

EDIT: To answer your question: It totally depends on the DM. Perhaps let the player tell you his background story and give him 2 monsters per level that fit to the story and the lands he traveled.
I won't give him the polar bear-form if he has never been in the north and therefor never battled on or at least studied a day.
I would be very cautious about summon monster. Some will summon a monster and battle it to get the form into their repertoire. Beware of such shortcuts.
And take care what monsters will appear in the campaign. Always keep in mind that some forms make the shifter a real, real, real powerhouse.

 

[JesterPoet]

Shifter is a yes or no class.
Shifter WITH access to the Ex-abilities is a straight yes.
You can become a real killing machine as a fell troll or later as outsider. With the support of some druid levels (for protection spells like barkskin and elemental protections) it is a good choice for shapechange loving players.

If you play 3.5 with the 3.5 wildshape (read limited polymorph) you can straight forget this class. Go for shapechange or take a wizard with lots of polymorph self.

BYE

I'm not sure I get exactly what you're trying to say here.


EDIT: After your edit, I follow you completely.