Shooting into melee

[Fundin Strongarm]

I've got a question or two about shooting into melee. Our DM originally had a chance to hit friendlies if you shot into melee. Then, after we played D&D Miniatures, we questioned if there were ANY chance to hit friendlies in melee as there is no chance of that in the Miniatures game.

Obviously there is a -4 penalty for shooting into combat that can be negated with the Feat Precise Shot. How we've done it is that there's an additional -4 penalty if the enemy has cover from the friendly fighting it, just like the miniature game. However, we've taken out any chance of hitting a friendly in melee. Is this right? Are we supposed to play it that if you miss but would've hit if the enemy didn't have cover that you hit the cover instead? If that hit roll would cause damage to the covering friendly, does he take damage? If that's the case, how do you figure out cover? I'd assume if the friendly is directly between you and the enemy that the enemy would have the +4AC cover bonus. However, how far to the side do you need to be to ignore the cover penalty for shooting into melee?

If it matters, we're playing 3.0.

 

[Thanee]

You are doing it right, basically, except for one thing (well, you mention it yourself ).

If there is someone providing cover to the target, then there is a chance to hit that one, if the shot would be negated by the cover penalty (i.e. for the standard -4 cover, if the shot misses by 1-4 points, it can hit the "cover", if the attack roll (without the cover penalty figured in) would hit that someone, I think, but it's explained in the PHB in the combat section under cover, IIRC).

Not sure how cover was figured out in 3.0, but in 3.5 it's very easy. You just pick one corner of the attackers square (optimum choice for the attacker) and then draw lines to every corner of the target square. If any of those lines crosses an occupied square (which is not the target's own square ), the target has cover.

Common sense also works, just let the DM decide at what point there is cover. This should be done in a reasonable and objective fashion, of course.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

If there is someone providing cover to the target, then there is a chance to hit that one, if the shot would be negated by the cover penalty (i.e. for the standard -4 cover, if the shot misses by 1-4 points, it can hit the "cover", if the attack roll (without the cover penalty figured in) would hit that someone, I think, but it's explained in the PHB in the combat section under cover, IIRC).

This is not a core rule. It's a variant rule in the DMG. Core plays like the minis game: no friendly fire.

 

[Darklone]

Well, if you don't care about hitting your buddies and don't have Precise Shot, you can forget about the -4... which would mean IMHO equal random chances of targets

 

[Thanee]

This is not a core rule. It's a variant rule in the DMG. Core plays like the minis game: no friendly fire.

In 3.0 !?

I can't check, but I am very sure, that the rules are in the PHB.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lord Pendragon]

In 3.0 !?

I can't check, but I am very sure, that the rules are in the PHB.

Whoops. No, you are correct. That's what I get for posting this late. The line about playing 3.0 did not register at all.

 

[Fundin Strongarm]

So, one ought to follow the 3.0 cover rules. Thanks. To determine if there's cover I assume we'd do it like the mini game -- draw the line from a corner as Thanee described. Maybe once you're past the "45 degree" mark there's no cover (or it's less)?

It seems this changes in 3.5? In 3.5, does it play like the minis games -- ie. with no friendly fire possible? Is there some sort of variant in the 3.5DMG that can be used?

As an aside, if the enemy AC is sufficiently low or the friendly sufficiently high, then there'd be no chance to hit the friendly, right?

 

[Thanee]

Well, the variant rule in 3.5 is similar.

If the attack misses only because of the cover modifier, then the cover is hit instead. If the cover is a creature, the attack must beat the AC of that creature to hit. If the attack misses the covering creature because of dodge bonuses, then the original target is hit, since the covering creature did not provide cover after all.

Personally, I'd just go without friendly fire as it is standard in 3.5. It's too rare to do anything really to bother.

Bye
Thanee