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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 8750057" data-attributes="member: 87792">At which point their DPR falls off hard and they definitely aren't the DPR class you comment on elsewhere. So let's look at that.Looking at some level 6 benchmarks (mostly because we don't have to get feats involved at levels 6 or 7).A stock monk using standard array is likely to be Dex 16 Wis 16 and have put their level 6 ASI into Dex for Dex 18. And is using a d6 damage dice. That means that their base AC (before magic items) is 17 - and their normal non-Ki attack routine is +7 to hit, 1d6+4 damage (again assuming no magic items). For a total of 3d6+12 damage, averaging at 22.5 - or 25.5 if you're using a versatile two handed weapon.A stock level 6 sword and board fighter using standard array is likely to start at STR 16 and have reached STR 20 if they have no feats. Heavy armour plus shield plus the duelist style by level 6 should be AC 20 before magic items. Their normal attack routine (as they are STR 20) is +8 to hit and d8+7 damage (including the duelist bonus) for a total of 2d8+14 damage, averaging at 23. And to add insult to injury they have an extra +1 to hit. You're at least neck and neck with the versatile monk here.So the baseline damage between fighter and monk is pretty close before we count short rest abilities. The fighter gets Action Surge and Second Wind, while the Monk has six ki points.  We've already shown that an extra full attack action is worth almost exactly the same as three attacks in terms of sustained damage - but it's front loaded high DPR burst damage.  We'll stick with it being the equivalent of three Ki points, but that's being generous to the monk. So the monk has three spare ki points. Using Patient Defence (or Step of the Wind) both uses a Ki point and takes away an attack at the start of the combat when it is most valuable. So it effectively costs at least two Ki points worth of damage to use.Short version: If the Monk is using Patient Defence or Step of the Wind more than once per short rest then their DPR is behind a fighter with no subclass in most of Tier 2. If they aren't then they are squishier unless they have an exceptional stat spread.</blockquote>

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