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D&D 5E Short Rest Classes: Is the "Short Rest Problem" a "Monk Problem"

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
If you haven't looked at it, I recommend this thread I started the other day-

How to easily balance all the short rest classes.

Anyway, the gist of it was that any short rest resource could be converted into a long rest resource by multiplying it by 3. So, for example, if a Warlock has two "short rest" spells, then they should have 6 spells per day. If a monk has 4 ki, then they should have 12 ki per day. And so on. The point of this was to help balance the "short rest" classes with the "long rest" classes, especially when it came to tables that didn't allow for short rests at the usual interval (2 shorts per long- if it was 3 shorts per long, then it would be 4x, and that gets a little much).

But some of the comments in the thread made me think about this issues in a little more depth. I've always taken it as a given that there are short rest classes and long rest classes, but I've never really teased out that thought, or what it meant. So let's start with the basic analysis- what is a short rest class, and why does it matter?

Traditionally, most people would break classes down as follows in terms of the rest abilities-

Short Rest
These are the classes that have abilities that primarily key on short rests.
Fighter, Monks, Warlocks


In the Middle
These are the classes that are primarily long rest, but have some short rest abilities.
Bards, Clerics, Druids, Paladins, Wizards

Long Rest
These are the classes that are almost solely long rest.
Artificers, Barbarians, Rangers, Sorcerers

Rests aren't the Boss of Me
Rogues


So when you look at this, and you're trying to see which classes have a short rest problem, something becomes quickly apparent. There are only three classes that you can even classify as short-rest dependent.

Of those three classes, one of them is the Fighter. Now, don't get me wrong ... short rests are REALLY NICE for the fighter. The base fighter abilities, like Action Surge and Second Wind ... yeah, short rest. And if you go battlemaster, you want those short rests. But the thing about fighters is that they are really good at the fighting things even without the short rest. They have armor, and hit points, and weapons ... They WANT the short rest, but they don't NEED it.

Next is the Warlock. Warlocks have one of the best (if not THE BEST) attack cantrip in the game. They have "always on" invocations. Yes, they need the short rests for spells, but it's perfectly possible to play a useable Warlock without the extra spells.

And that leaves the Monk. The Monk's abilities, and their various subclasses, are all premise on Ki- which is a unique monk resource. And ki ... is completely short-rest dependent. More than any class, monks are completely, totally, 100% dependent on getting the required short rests.

At least, that's my thought right now. Because I was thinking about this, and while some classes (Warlocks and Fighters) get hurt by a lack of short rests, Monks become nearly unplayable.

So maybe that's the crux of the issue. Maybe the short rest problem is actually a monk problem? Or, put another way, maybe the monk problem is ... actually a short rest problem?
 

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DND_Reborn

The High Aldwin
It isn't a problem at all as I see it, but I am just one voice. :)

Reading the other thread, I am not a fan of the x3 option you suggest simply because it increases Nova capabilities of those other classes and now they will run out and want a long rest instead of running out and just needing a short rest.

I think another option would be a recharge mechanic for all features, where you would (typically) have them at the beginning of an encounter, but checking recharges for such things would probably be too fiddly for people.

Anyway, as for the "monk", the typical thing is just giving more ki or allowing a single free-use per encounter or something.
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Instead of doing 3x short rest abilities, you could do prof bonus per day, but between each use, you need a 5 min breather.

That would work with some things that you want to scale with level, but it doesn't work for the Monk's ki or the Warlocks spells (for example). It doesn't work for any abilities that were already scaling with level.

The proficiency bonus per day is a useful mechanic, but it's hard to retcon into everything they were using the short rest for.
 

That would work with some things that you want to scale with level, but it doesn't work for the Monk's ki or the Warlocks spells (for example). It doesn't work for any abilities that were already scaling with level.

The proficiency bonus per day is a useful mechanic, but it's hard to retcon into everything they were using the short rest for.
Then make it fixed 2 times per day during a 5 minbreather you can recharge the ability. This prevents a nova from short rest classes, which could in the case of a 4e monk/level 2 figher be quite some hefty output:

Fireball/action surge/Fireball... For 3 rounds and bonus action dodge(attack with tasha's optional ki attack).
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Then make it fixed 2 times per day during a 5 minbreather you can recharge the ability. This prevents a nova from short rest classes, which could in the case of a 4e monk/level 2 figher be quite some hefty output:

Fireball/action surge/Fireball... For 3 rounds and bonus action dodge(attack with tasha's optional ki attack).

As I wrote in the other thread, I think that the concern people have for ... Monks ... nova'ing is kind of funny and overblown.

"Oh, it's fine that we have the Paladin go all SMITE-Y when he wants to and NOVA harder than a 1970s Chevy , but we can't let a monk or battlemaster nova! That would go against the laws of God, Gygax, and Grod!"

:)

But if you were concerned, I did write the following -

But otherwise, I'd propose something similar to, "You can take two short rests per long rest, but you must take an minute to do so" (in order to avoid mid-combat short rests).


ETA- As much as people love theorycrafting, I don't think they've tried to build many Monk multiclasses before. Monks are famously MAD, and usually don't do well when you have to dip.
 

As I wrote in the other thread, I think that the concern people have for ... Monks ... nova'ing is kind of funny and overblown.

"Oh, it's fine that we have the Paladin go all SMITE-Y when he wants to and NOVA harder than a 1970s Chevy , but we can't let a monk or battlemaster nova! That would go against the laws of God, Gygax, and Grod!"

:)

But if you were concerned, I did write the following -




ETA- As much as people love theorycrafting, I don't think they've tried to build many Monk multiclasses before. Monks are famously MAD, and usually don't do well when you have to dip.

You are probably right. I still thought it was worth pointing oit, that with more available ki, the elemental monk does not look so bad anymore. ;)

The paladin however will hopefully get reigned in in nova capability. S.ites not factored in crits might help a bit already.
 

if the rest is the problem, make the recharge happen when you roll initiative.
Give an initial pool, and recharge some at initiative,
 

Battlemaster gets to use his whole total of 4-6 superiority dice between short rests. That is not even doing one maneuver every other turn if you want them to last for two fights.

Let's put it this way: at least a Monk looks like a Monk doing Monk stuff even without Ki points. A Battlemaster out of superiority dice is just any random guy with a stick. It's not fun to play either when out of juice.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
... but it's perfectly possible to play a useable Warlock without the extra spells.

Having the best combat cantrip does not an interesting play experience make, though. Having watched several warlocks in action, I see the point of limiting their spells, but I think they really want those rests for overall play experience.

So, Monk and Warlock problem.
 

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