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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 9152654" data-attributes="member: 2067">One of the slippery bits here is that when you put the effect before the cause, you lose a lot of people's investment. If I have a character who can taunt, I don't expect it to double as construct hacking or natural knowledge. I expect it to annoy intelligent NPC's - that's a "taunt." I'd kind of expect your Charisma to feature into it. I'd expect to be able to affect foppish nobles more than it'd affect a town guard. It wouldn't necessarily cause folks to attack me (that'd depend on the folks, really). This is part of what works against a "mundane" character (especially outside of combat) - if I can taunt, that's a verb, not an outcome. It's a cause. The effect it has may be somewhat defined, but no more so than a longsword. A longsword deals 1d8 damage, but it also cuts ropes, slices meat, gets you noticed as an armed brigand at the bar, is an heirloom from your grandfather, etc., etc. It's a prop that exists in a world, not just a button to push that deals 1d8 damage. A taunt is a thing you can do, not just a button to push to get creatures to target you. Once we start justifying the effect by changing around the cause, we're playing a bit backwards for a lot of people. The point of having a taunt is not so that I can control targeting in combat - it's so I can roleplay a SUPER ANNOYING character who can get under peoples' skin. Magic doesn't have to deal with this kind of thing because arbitrary limits and abilities are fine if "it's magic." If I use my psychic powers to force an enemy to fight me, I don't care too much if it's an ooze or a construct or an undead or a town guard or foppish noble or what. Magic knows what a "creature" is, magic can make a "creature" fight me, game on! If you introduce a mundane taunt for the purposes of controlling attacks, then you're in some misty territory where it doesn't always work like a taunt (yes, you can...annoy...the...ooze?) or it doesn't always work for the purposes of controlling attacks (you make the foppish noble angry and he storms off in a huff). It's like the difference between a mundane "insult" ability and vicious mockery. If these two things work like each other, but are distinct, you get a buttload of corner cases, questions, and kinked assumptions. Just give a fighter vicious mockery and dodge the whole circus.</blockquote>

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