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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9155006" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>First off all we need to specify we are not including Monks in this discussion as all of them get the ability to do magic damage.</p><p></p><p>That said I can say from experience when my Bladesinger faced a Nightwalker outside of melee range 2 weeks ago the only spell I had that could damage him was Tasha's Maind Whip (which is 7 points of damage on average).</p><p></p><p>All of my damaging Cantrips are necrotic damage which he was immune to (and yes I wasted an attack blasting him with Chill Touch) and the only damaging spells I had prepared at 14th level and with slots were Wither and Bloom (necrotic) and Tasha's Mind Whip.</p><p></p><p>It is not hard for a non-caster in that edge case without magic weapons to carry Holy Water, Acid, Oil or use subclass or racial abilities and it is equally rare to have a non-caster with no magic weapon that also can't do anny of those things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And on the other hand, it is unheard of to have an enemy to be immune to magic weapons and holy water and fire and acid and poison and those things will generally stack with damage boosts like Giants Might, Battlemaster Maneuvers, Divine Fury etc. I don't think a single such enemy exists that has all those immunities and any martial can use all of those things.</p><p></p><p>When you bring non-caster subclasses into this you have psychic, force, necrotic, magic piercing (with a non magic bow), cold and lightning damage. That is without even considering Monks, feats, races or spells afforded to EKs and ATs.</p><p></p><p>So the idea that a non-caster can only do non-magic P/B/S is just flat false. If you purposely built and equipped a character as such it is true, but that is no different than the caster who did not diversify his spell selection.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are within 60 feet and can see the opponent sure. Another example from play though - I counterspelled a giantess caster last week on her legendary action and then she hit me with a Power Word Stun on her turn when I had no reaction (and the DC was so high it was permanent until the party used GR on me).</p><p></p><p>Also played right counterspell is not a panacea due to the spell casting checks and level involved. As long as your DM hides the spell he is casting (announcing "BBEG is casting a spell" instead of "BBEG is casting wall of force") then the level slot to use to counter is ambiguous and high level slots are rare. Whether to counter an unknown spell against a high level caster at 8th level, using your only slot, or 3rd is a difficult choice. Add the check in there and there is a significant chance of failing (both on the initial CS and on the counter-counter-spell) and if you fail you lost your reaction and then can't absorb elements on the meteor storm you chose to counter at 3rd level.</p><p></p><p>Where counterspell becomes OP is when the DM announces the spell he is casting so the player knows ahead of time what level to counter it at.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 9155006, member: 7030563"] First off all we need to specify we are not including Monks in this discussion as all of them get the ability to do magic damage. That said I can say from experience when my Bladesinger faced a Nightwalker outside of melee range 2 weeks ago the only spell I had that could damage him was Tasha's Maind Whip (which is 7 points of damage on average). All of my damaging Cantrips are necrotic damage which he was immune to (and yes I wasted an attack blasting him with Chill Touch) and the only damaging spells I had prepared at 14th level and with slots were Wither and Bloom (necrotic) and Tasha's Mind Whip. It is not hard for a non-caster in that edge case without magic weapons to carry Holy Water, Acid, Oil or use subclass or racial abilities and it is equally rare to have a non-caster with no magic weapon that also can't do anny of those things. And on the other hand, it is unheard of to have an enemy to be immune to magic weapons and holy water and fire and acid and poison and those things will generally stack with damage boosts like Giants Might, Battlemaster Maneuvers, Divine Fury etc. I don't think a single such enemy exists that has all those immunities and any martial can use all of those things. When you bring non-caster subclasses into this you have psychic, force, necrotic, magic piercing (with a non magic bow), cold and lightning damage. That is without even considering Monks, feats, races or spells afforded to EKs and ATs. So the idea that a non-caster can only do non-magic P/B/S is just flat false. If you purposely built and equipped a character as such it is true, but that is no different than the caster who did not diversify his spell selection. If you are within 60 feet and can see the opponent sure. Another example from play though - I counterspelled a giantess caster last week on her legendary action and then she hit me with a Power Word Stun on her turn when I had no reaction (and the DC was so high it was permanent until the party used GR on me). Also played right counterspell is not a panacea due to the spell casting checks and level involved. As long as your DM hides the spell he is casting (announcing "BBEG is casting a spell" instead of "BBEG is casting wall of force") then the level slot to use to counter is ambiguous and high level slots are rare. Whether to counter an unknown spell against a high level caster at 8th level, using your only slot, or 3rd is a difficult choice. Add the check in there and there is a significant chance of failing (both on the initial CS and on the counter-counter-spell) and if you fail you lost your reaction and then can't absorb elements on the meteor storm you chose to counter at 3rd level. Where counterspell becomes OP is when the DM announces the spell he is casting so the player knows ahead of time what level to counter it at. [/QUOTE]
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Should martial characters be mundane or supernatural?
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