Should players be allowed to compete for godhood?
- Thread starter DmQ
- Start date
Aaron L
Hero
I'd never allow the gods to have power over magic enough to take it away from mortals, and I dislike settings that do allow this. It always bugged the hell out of me that Raistlin was able to destroy the gods of magic using thier own power!
Serious logic problem there.
Arcane magic in all of my settings is a science that gods have no power over. Gods have divine magic, giving them arcane magic too makes all magic divine and removes any reason for a difference between the two.
Serious logic problem there.
Arcane magic in all of my settings is a science that gods have no power over. Gods have divine magic, giving them arcane magic too makes all magic divine and removes any reason for a difference between the two.
Raven Crowking
First Post
Here's my take on your conundrum:
The real question is, why would the gods snuff out the characters? Assuming a pantheistic game, and assuming that the gods are not of the "omniscient, omnipotent" variety (in which case, if they are, why more than one?) there is likely to be some divine politicking going on. IMC, one of the big-picture divine political debates is: should mortals be allowed to civilize the world, or should they leave the wilderness intact?
Now, this seems to be an easy problem for gods to sort out, right? Except, IMC there are litterally thousands of competing gods. Most of them are ancestral heroes, faerie lords, gods of beasts, and others with an extremely limited range or portfolio. Nonetheless, to get things done, the big gods need the aid of the little gods. Same as with human society. And, as with human society, some of the big gods use coersion, some use reason, some use debate, some use gifts...all to sway the little gods to their side.
Gods are busy people.
They really don't have time to watch over every mortal personnally. I mean, the odds are good that several gods are paying attention to you at any given time, but which gods are they? Faerie Lords? Infernal Powers? Gods like to meddle with mortals, and they want powerful pawns for their scheming. Demon lords are likely to offer PCs Mephistophalean bargains at some point. If saints be minor gods (and they are, IMC, when their time on the mortal plane is done), then the Celestial Deities want their followers to achieve a kind of godhood.
IMC, deities and spirits can procreate, but the odds against it are very, very high. The odds increase dramatically when a mortal is involved. The odds are certain, if you accept raising a mortal to godhood as a kind of procreation.
Again, there's a big difference between allowing divine ascention and having the ascended able to take your place. Maybe the new deity is just the servant that the Old Gods need.
The first posting to my Story Hour has the cosmology of my campaign world, in brief. It sets up the gods into various groupings, from the Lovecraftian Elder Gods to the modern Celestial Deities. I include in my world not one, not two, but three sets of imprisoned gods that sometimes can influence the world. These are the aforementioned Lovecraftian Elder Gods, the Great Titans who fought and imprisoned them, and the Infernal Powers, which were thrown out of the Heavens a little less than 500 years ago.
Really, your questions could be applied to anyone who holds power. Why would King Joey allow fighters to advance to a high level, when high level fighters might later oust him? Better to kill all the fighters who become renowned for their prowess....until your neighbor attacks, and you've got no heroes to help you.
It's just a matter of scale.
Hope that helps.
Raven Crowking
DmQ said:
The real question is, why would the gods snuff out the characters? Assuming a pantheistic game, and assuming that the gods are not of the "omniscient, omnipotent" variety (in which case, if they are, why more than one?) there is likely to be some divine politicking going on. IMC, one of the big-picture divine political debates is: should mortals be allowed to civilize the world, or should they leave the wilderness intact?
Now, this seems to be an easy problem for gods to sort out, right? Except, IMC there are litterally thousands of competing gods. Most of them are ancestral heroes, faerie lords, gods of beasts, and others with an extremely limited range or portfolio. Nonetheless, to get things done, the big gods need the aid of the little gods. Same as with human society. And, as with human society, some of the big gods use coersion, some use reason, some use debate, some use gifts...all to sway the little gods to their side.
Gods are busy people.
They really don't have time to watch over every mortal personnally. I mean, the odds are good that several gods are paying attention to you at any given time, but which gods are they? Faerie Lords? Infernal Powers? Gods like to meddle with mortals, and they want powerful pawns for their scheming. Demon lords are likely to offer PCs Mephistophalean bargains at some point. If saints be minor gods (and they are, IMC, when their time on the mortal plane is done), then the Celestial Deities want their followers to achieve a kind of godhood.
IMC, deities and spirits can procreate, but the odds against it are very, very high. The odds increase dramatically when a mortal is involved. The odds are certain, if you accept raising a mortal to godhood as a kind of procreation.
Again, there's a big difference between allowing divine ascention and having the ascended able to take your place. Maybe the new deity is just the servant that the Old Gods need.
The first posting to my Story Hour has the cosmology of my campaign world, in brief. It sets up the gods into various groupings, from the Lovecraftian Elder Gods to the modern Celestial Deities. I include in my world not one, not two, but three sets of imprisoned gods that sometimes can influence the world. These are the aforementioned Lovecraftian Elder Gods, the Great Titans who fought and imprisoned them, and the Infernal Powers, which were thrown out of the Heavens a little less than 500 years ago.
Really, your questions could be applied to anyone who holds power. Why would King Joey allow fighters to advance to a high level, when high level fighters might later oust him? Better to kill all the fighters who become renowned for their prowess....until your neighbor attacks, and you've got no heroes to help you.
It's just a matter of scale.
Hope that helps.
Raven Crowking
random user
First Post
Here are some (I think) plausible reasons:
- How would a god get rid of another god? By helping a mortal ascend into godhold by overthrowing his enemy.
- Maybe the god is bored and wants to take on an apprentice (ie the god of the sea makes someone the god of typhoons)
- Maybe the god wants more allies in the divine court. He thinks if he sponsors mortals for godhood he can in essence buy their votes.
- How would a god get rid of another god? By helping a mortal ascend into godhold by overthrowing his enemy.
- Maybe the god is bored and wants to take on an apprentice (ie the god of the sea makes someone the god of typhoons)
- Maybe the god wants more allies in the divine court. He thinks if he sponsors mortals for godhood he can in essence buy their votes.
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
DmQ said:
This is a time honored way to end a campaign. The party gets to level 20 (or higher if you're into epic stuff) and ascends into the heavens.
Have the older gods welcome the PCs as they can use any strong arm against the demon lords or whatever.
The meta-plot I'm considering is that an errant Titan has stolen some ambrosia (food of the gods) and his careless eating and sanitation has caused all manner of mythical beasts to plague to countryside. Enter the aspiring heroes, having just competed in the Olympic games, to set forth to solve various riddles and vanquish the monsters while slowly realizing there's a titan about. The final battle will probably be at the foot of Mount Olympus. If the heroes succeed at beating (or tricking) the titan out of the ambrosia, they may be able to consume it and ascend Mount Olympus to divinity.
Chimera
First Post
Ah, the old "Ambrosia makes you a God trick"... Makes it easy, eh?
In any other pantheon, I'd say that there are many ways to make it, always keeping in mind that the Gods are a small and closed society that isn't easy to crack. The ultimate Power Clique. Make a few strategic enemies among them and you can kiss godhood goodbye. They will ensure you never get into the club, so to speak. (or possibly continue to exist.)
The best way would obviously be via patronage. Serve a big god (who can protect and aid you), work your way to demigodhood, then try to find the right niche to expand your worship and make it to the big leagues.
Work hard and the millenium will just fly by!
In the Ambrosia club, where just anyone who stumbles across a bit of Ambrosia can join up, rivalries and turf wars are going to be viscious. Ok, you're a new god. Of what? Magic? Sorry, that's so-and-so's field. He won't take kindly to you encroaching on his territory and will probably move against you (You who has no divine allies...). Etcetera, etcetera.
Then, as a newly minted ambrosia God, how do you get worshipers and clergy? Lots of hard work, doing miracles, inspiring random peasants, appearing in different places. (Ah, the tedious drudgery of building a flock from scratch. Bloody hard work it is!)
"Worship me! I'm a new GOD! That's right, the God of small furry things!"
"Ummm...why? We already worship She who doesn't drop rocks on our head."
"But I can help you, do miracles and such!"
"Yeah, but she doesn't drop rocks on our head, now does she. If we go worshipin' you, she might get it in mind to start droppin' rocks on us, then where would we be?"
In any other pantheon, I'd say that there are many ways to make it, always keeping in mind that the Gods are a small and closed society that isn't easy to crack. The ultimate Power Clique. Make a few strategic enemies among them and you can kiss godhood goodbye. They will ensure you never get into the club, so to speak. (or possibly continue to exist.)
The best way would obviously be via patronage. Serve a big god (who can protect and aid you), work your way to demigodhood, then try to find the right niche to expand your worship and make it to the big leagues.
Work hard and the millenium will just fly by!
In the Ambrosia club, where just anyone who stumbles across a bit of Ambrosia can join up, rivalries and turf wars are going to be viscious. Ok, you're a new god. Of what? Magic? Sorry, that's so-and-so's field. He won't take kindly to you encroaching on his territory and will probably move against you (You who has no divine allies...). Etcetera, etcetera.
Then, as a newly minted ambrosia God, how do you get worshipers and clergy? Lots of hard work, doing miracles, inspiring random peasants, appearing in different places. (Ah, the tedious drudgery of building a flock from scratch. Bloody hard work it is!)
"Worship me! I'm a new GOD! That's right, the God of small furry things!"
"Ummm...why? We already worship She who doesn't drop rocks on our head."
"But I can help you, do miracles and such!"
"Yeah, but she doesn't drop rocks on our head, now does she. If we go worshipin' you, she might get it in mind to start droppin' rocks on us, then where would we be?"
Similar Threads
