Should Power Source have greater meaning?

[DEFCON 1]

The faewild just doesn't seem quite right.

I agree, but I think it's a failure of the design of the Feywild as a plane. The Feywild should really be ALL about magic. It should be the plane from which all arcane, magical energy flows. And it should be where all magical creatures are really prominent.

The problem is... because they based the plane on fairies, and most fairies are woodland creatures (pixies, gnomes, brownies, dryads, satyr etc.) the Feywild is describe as an overabundance of NATURE. In many ways... magic takes a backseat to nature. This is no more evident by the fact that the entire fey governmental system is based around the seasons. But the five nature-based classes you have... are specifically designed to have nothing to do with this nature plane. Which makes absolutely no sense.

When you think of the Feywild... which classes make more instinctual sense for the creatures within? Wardens, druids, and shaman or artificers, dragon sorcerers, and starlocks?

Sure, some arcane classes have a connection to the design of the Feywild... but so many other Arcane classes don't. And thus, when you're talking about a power SOURCE... someone or something that a PC gets his power FROM... the Arcane power source is a misnomer because in fact they get their powers from ALL DIFFERENT SOURCES, and not just one. There is no Arcane source, because they've never agreed upon what exactly being Arcane means other than "any class that uses 'magic' that doesn't come from a source we've described, whether that be the gods, the EleChaos, the Shadowfell or the Far Realm".

 

[Zaukrie]

1. I rarely agree with Kzach, but in this case I do. The power sources offer neither enough fluff, nor enough crunch. They just aren't different enough from one another to matter at all.

2. I totally disagree with the idea that power sources should come from planes. I don't understand why that's a good idea at all. Each plane/realm could be more infused with one power source, but I see no reason to tie power sources to realms. I also particularly hate the idea that the psionic source comes from the far realm. That makes no sense to me at all. I love the "creator" power source concept a lot, btw.

3. My current campaign is all about power sources. Here are the ones the characters think they know about: souls, blood, worms (I think they may have figured out the truth about this one), boundaries between planes (is this really a source, or a place where the source is more easily tapped....), belief...I can't say much more, as one of my players is in this thread. As you can see, I don't touch on the martial, psionic....though those power sources surely exist in my campaign.

4. I'd really like the power sources to be narrower, and classes to be about how much you tap various power sources. Right now, the color seems to have been drained from the fluff and the crunch. I mean, you can make D&D anything you want, I'm not arguing "you can't RP in 4E" or anything like that. But something has been stripped from the game, or maybe I'm just old now.

5. Give me lots of power sources, with lots of flavor. Let me build PCs and monsters our of different combinations thereof.

 

[drothgery]

If it weren't for Arcane, I would totally agree with you. All the other power sources map well to a defined place in the cosmology.* But arcane is really the power source of "well, you do magic" and class merely delineates the method of use.

*(Infernal pact warlocks and sorcerers in general argue against the "Arcane is from the Feywild" approach.)

Not sure I'd agree with sorcerers, and as long as we're moving things around, Warlocks should be Shadow (and not in core, so you can ditch the Fey Pacts).

 

[Drowdruid]

@Zaurkie
5. Give me lots of power sources, with lots of flavor. Let me build PCs and monsters our of different combinations thereof.

I have hobby of creating versions of games that i play that would be my ideal
and in my version of d&d 4e i have following power sources:
Martial (Exploits): Your powers come from mastery in mundane skills like warcraft, leadership, thievery and other skills useful in adventuring
gained through endless hours of training and natural predisposition as well as determination to make it act properly
Arcane (Spells): Your powers come from manipulation of arcane forces that supports physical reality
gained through study mystical knowledge, mastery in artistic expression, pact with powerful supernatural entity or through innate talent
Divine (Prayers): Your powers come from favor of gods, embodiments of fundamental ideas resident in their dominions in Astral Sea
gained through faith and following commandments of gods or sometimes through special gift received directly from gods
Primal (Invocations): Your powers come from communion with primal spirits guarding natural order from Feywild
gained through mystical knowledge about primal spirits and nature or through totemic pact made with guardian spirit.
Tech (Inventions): Your powers come from creating and using highly advanced equipment like alchemical items, gadgets or constructs
gained through combined knowledge of physical properties of components and advanced process of manufacturing these components.
Shadow (Hexes): Your powers come from mystical connection of your soul with plane of Shadowfell
gained through trading part of your soul to Shadowfell in form of voluntary or pact, unlucky curse or through damnation for evil deeds.
Elemental (Channelings): Your powers come from direct contact with raw energy or inhabitants of plane of Elemental Chaos
gained through opening mystical channels to that plane with help of mystical knowledge or innate talent.
Aberrant (Mutations): Your powers come from mutations of living body made by influence of radiance from plane of Far Realms
gained through journey to that plane or through establishing mental connection with that plane.
Social (Dictums): Your powers come from social influence
gained through position in society or through reputation and fame gained by extraordinary achievements made during adventuring.
Psionic (Manifestations): Your powers come from mental influence on minds and bodies through plane of Dreamscape
gained through psychological knowledge and deep concentration, emotional surge, daydreaming or simply innate talent.
Ki (Disciplines): Your powers come from mental influence on your own soul or by mediation of your soul on souls of other peoples
gained through rigorous discipline of mind and body, philosophical meditations or sometimes from inborn spiritual influence on your soul
Sanguinary (Sacrifices): Your powers come from drawing strength from life forces residing in blood of living creatures
gained through making sacrifices from living creatures or from itself as well as drinking blood of your opponents.
Fate (Incidents): Your powers come from supernatural ability to influence reality called fate or luck
gained through access to forces of wild magic through gambling or through wish as well as inborn luck gained upon birth under fateful omen.
Runic (Signs): Your powers come from truenames and their graphical representations called runes
gained through drawing runes, reading runic texts or mental activation of runes carved in body in form of tattoo
Dimensional (Warps): Your powers come from supernatural connection with space and time
gained through hooks to other planes gained during planar travel or through innate talent.
Symbiotic (Cooperations): Your powers come from mental communion with beasts
gained through long friendship with mount or beast companion, knowledge about beast behaviors or symbiosis with mind parasites
Edit:
I thought of another one Heredital (Legacies): Your powers come from past in form of memories, wealth or magic artifacts than can be only used by your bloodline
Thanks for sugestion Zaukrie

 

[Incenjucar]

But the thing is... they already HAVE power sources for all 5 planes. Divine does come from the Astral Sea, Elemental does come from the Elemental Chaos, Shadow does come from the Shadowfell, Primal does come from the Prime, and while Arcane doesn't come from the Feywild, the Feywild is full of it.

And then there's Psionics.

The only problem is... the Feywild as a plane is not arcane and magical enough, and is in fact too nature-based that the Primal classes should be an integral part of it (rather than based in the Prime).

The Feywild is a rules-based world, to the degree that RHYMES have power there. The Feywild book does a lot to make it very clear how it connects to the Arcane. The Feywild is actually a very unnatural place, as even the seasons are subject to weird little rules that don't follow nature at all. Pixies paint dew on flowers, for crying out loud. It has a lot of PLANTS AND ANIMALS. They're not at all natural.

I agree that we have the arcane source because of historical issues... but I disagree that its JUST rules/formula-based magic, because that really only applies to two of the classes-- the wizard and the artificer. Swordmages and bard don't follow rules or formulas... they just can 'tap into' magic (whatever 'magic' is).

Swordmages are literally mages who use swords. Their magic is just a very different concentration than a wizard's. Bards rely heavily on rules-based magic. Music is all about rules. Look at a music sheet - that is a bard's arcane formula.

Sorcerers don't follow rules or formulas either, they just are magical (and get that magic from the 'wild' or 'dragons' or 'storms' or the 'cosmos' whatever that means).

Sorcerers are arguably just the result of Elemental not being available early enough. That said, they're tapping into the secrets of their bloodline or using the rules of cosmic order or planar chaos to break physical laws. Cosmos is definately arcane-feeling.

And warlocks are given their magic from outer-planal sources just like Divine characters are... except since its not from 'gods', they don't get attributed to the Divine source for whatever reason (even though it's a much closer source than whatever the 'arcane' source is supposed to represent.)

Warlocks get their powers from a wide variety of sources, USING secrets and rules. Arcane magic lets them bleed power from every power source that stems from outside forces. There's even a Hexblade power that specifically lets you choose from a number of different power sources.

 

[Zaukrie]

Great list....

I forgot one that my players know about...

history/wealth/memories....dragons hoard treasure because of the accumulated power of history and wealth

 

[DEFCON 1]

And then there's Psionics.

Far Realm. So technically all six non-Martial sources have a 'plane' attributed to them (if we count the Far Realm as a 'plane'.)

Warlocks get their powers from a wide variety of sources, USING secrets and rules.

I agree with you that what you speak of makes the case for the different arcane classes applying to 'secrets' and 'rules', and your details on how they might apply work well. But I would disagree though that those are the SOURCE of their power. Arcane classes don't GET their spells from 'secrets' and 'rules'. They USE secrets and rules to acquire power from other sources. So Arcane isn't a power source in itself... it's the wire you plug into or the bucket you dip into the source in order to draw the power out. And that's my issue with it. It's a methodology, not a power source. There is no one 'source' of arcane magic. And this is the same thing others have said why they wouldn't want an 'artificer' or 'tech' power source... because that's just a way of using power, not what the power actually is.

 

[Drowdruid]

[MENTION=98938]DeF[/MENTION]CON1
It's a methodology, not a power source.

Personally i think you too strict means power source. Its both methodology and literal source of power, at least too some degree because both methods and source decides about common flavor of powers of classes that belong to that power source.

 

[FreeXenon]

I agree with both Defcon 1 and DrowDruid...

While Defcon 1 I think you are technically correct, I think that I see Arcane as separate, mostly via its history in the game even though it does not have a clear fit with the other power sources for the reasons you stated.

I could Artifice as a power source as well. Perhaps not as a primary power source but as a secondary or meta one.

The Artificer class would be half arcane and half artificer for power source.

A more technology minded artificer such as a Tinker Gnome (from what little I know of them) might be martial and artificer for power sources.

Eberron's Gnome Binders could be half Arcane or Elemental and half Artifice for power sources.

just some thoughts...

 

[FreeXenon]

Psionics

... and before I forget, if I remember correctly, psionics do not derive their power from the Far Realm. Psionics, as a power source, was developed as a sort of an immune response from the natural world due to the intrusion of Far Realm.