Should Psionics be part of the core in 4th edition?

[Mark CMG]

I like Psionics as an alternative to magic in modern and futuristic settings.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

But lets be honest here. The current psionics system is absolutely horrible in terms of mechanics. It needs remade from the ground up to be something more than a particularly bad spell point system.

Really? Because I absolutely love the system. In fact I prefer it to vancian magic hands down. I could take this same expression and substitute the word "magic" in where you have "psionics" ( as well as replace "spell point" with "spell level") and then completely agree!

I gotta respectfully disagree with you, Nonlethal. I like the way the core is setup because if you are a player, then you only have to buy one book. If you want to make a larger investment to be a DM then you can. I can see a comprimise, in putting your Book of Magic into the Player's Handbook, and jacking up the page count and price by about $10-15.

I can understand this point. But I'd actually rather see them take that $40 combined book and make it into two thinner $20 books. It would serve the purpose of making the game even easier for new players because they could concentrate on mechanics without worrying about the section on spells at all. They've spend less up front and really get what they need for a few sessions anyway. By the time they played long enough to want a new character they'd either be hooked and want to buy more books or else they'd decide they didn't want it and only be out $20.

 

[johnnype]

Anywhossier, I have yet to answer the poll because I don't know just what is meant by "part of the core."

By core i mean the the PHB, DMG and Monster Manual. I'll try to edit the poll although I think it might be a little late to make much of a difference.

 

[The Human Target]

I agree with Eric on that. Magic either needs to feel more different, or just admit it is the same.

I agree.

That goes for divine as well IMO.


That being said, I'd be more than fine with psionics in the core.

Maybe less of a crystal fetish psionics, but still.

 

[WayneLigon]

As much as I like psionics (for the first time they've done a decent rules set for it for D&D), I think it'll still remain a supplemental material. I was kinda surprised to see it added to the SRD, though, so maybe it'll be 'core' in some fashion. I would not mind seeing a drastically cut-down version of it appear in the PHB.

 

[Thurbane]

No, no and a thousand times, no!

Leave it in supplements for those who want it...

 

[Arkhandus]

Psionics needs to be at least partly integrated into the core rules of 4th Edition, IMHO. It gets neglected or dismissed by many just because it's non-core and thus seen as being less balanced, less well-designed, and less appropriate for D&D. Since it's been included in each edition as little more than an afterthought as a late expansion or small section of the 1E DMG, psionics has remained only haphazard in its quality and usefulness, warranting many of these opinions.

But 4th Edition really should include some psionic rules and background material; at least 1-2 base classes, 2-3 prestige classes (or whatever may replace them in 4E), and a modest selection of powers. I'd also like to see it have some barebones support for other things, like Oriental Adventures (i.e. a ninja variant rogue, a samurai variant fighter, a wu jen variant wizard, a shugenja variant cleric, etc., just simple notes on appropriate modifications).

Of course, ideally, I'd like to see the core 4E books each have a few sidebars (or small section in the back) describing how some of the material fits exactly into the official settings (whether or not they're all still supported). I.E. a blurb about how arcane casters/divine casters/psionicists could or do fit into Krynn, Athas, Oerth, Faerun, Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica, Mystara, Planescape, Spelljammer, etc.

 

[ZSutherland]

I said yes, but that yes is contingent on it being more unified with whatever the 4e magic system is. The only difference should exist in the description of psionics in the Magic chapter (mostly flavor) and the mechanical difference in class design.

 

[tonse]

By all means make it core. Since the Athas days I havn't DMed a single campaign without psionics. Without trying to provoke someone I would even say if there isn't enough room in the PHB cut some of the spells. So make all three "magic-genres" playable right out of the box and release supplements for clerics, mages and psionicists containing more powers. Should generate some business as well.

 

[arscott]

I'd like to see the psionic rules in the PHB. I don't care if they're still called psionics--There just needs to be an alternative to the crappy spell-level system they've got now.