Should Psionics be part of the core in 4th edition?

[Nellisir]

By all means make it core. Since the Athas days I havn't DMed a single campaign without psionics. Without trying to provoke someone I would even say if there isn't enough room in the PHB cut some of the spells. So make all three "magic-genres" playable right out of the box and release supplements for clerics, mages and psionicists containing more powers. Should generate some business as well.

Arcane and divine aren't really different "magic-genres". There's no mechanical difference between them, and very little flavor difference (Verbal component? Yup. Somatic component? Yup. Etc.). Adding psionics isn't just adding a little flavor; it's adding a whole new ruleset.

 

[Cadfan]

Nonlethal Force-

The problem isn't that spell point systems are bad, or that spell level systems are automatically good.

The problem is that spells that were balanced for their inclusion in a spell level system don't automatically transfer nearly verbatim into a spell point system. That was the decision that was a poor one, and that's the reason psionics (as is) is poorly designed.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

The problem is that spells that were balanced for their inclusion in a spell level system don't automatically transfer nearly verbatim into a spell point system. That was the decision that was a poor one, and that's the reason psionics (as is) is poorly designed.

Are you talking about making vancian spells into a spell system as per the suggestion in UA? Because I don't remember too many powers in the XPH that were directly hoisted from the PHB. I mean, sure there are staples like psionic charm and detect psionics. But they didn't even bring over any of the cure, inflict, summon monster, or summon anture's ally that are the big chains of the big casting classes. Personally, I was always impressed by the author of the XPH in his ability to make the powers present there different (yet quite functional) than the spell list as printed in the PHB.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

I said have it as a 4th core book. There is just too much to build into the main book (at least how it is now). But I also think, like many that have already posted, that they need to be built and planned from the beginning.

 

[glass]

I voted 'yes', for two reasons.

Firstly, I'd like to see a lot of the ideas from the current psionic magic system integrated into the core magic system (the scalability and flexibility, particularly, and some of the feat ideas).

Secondly, I'd like a psionics system that also feels like psionics. Ideally, it would be in the core too (at least the basics), if it could be shoe-horned in.


glass.

 

[glass]

responses to others

If, and only if, the main skills are consolidated / IH skill groups are used, and Psionics is done as a skills-and-feats system ala Psychic Handbook with skill groups as well, then I'd love to see it in the core. I'd probably start wearing a tinfoil hat, too.

Now that would be an excellent way to do it, IMO.

I think the line is far too fuzzy between science fiction and fantasy to draw this line.

I knew it was time to give up trying to draw a meaningfull distinction between sci-fi and fantasy when I heard a DJ on primetime national radio say that he hadn't seen the Lord of the Rings movies because he didn't like sci-fi!

I don't really see any need to consider the monster books core. To me CORE should be the rules of the game and the character generation stuff. Let the monster books (cause we all know there'll be more than one) just be monster books.

Would you have every published adventure reprint every monster they use? That would pretty royally screw Dungeon magazine!

It needs remade from the ground up to be something more than a particularly bad spell point system. The current system seems to be created with the assumption that you can start with a bunch of psionic powers that are essentially spells changed just enough to feel different, and then just kind of slap on a spell point system to use those psionic powers, and everything will fall together. Clearly this hasn't worked. A new mechanic is needed.

So, I vote, lets have psionics in a supplement. But lets drop this legacy baggage that makes the current system so bad.

Ironically, it was a 're-working from the ground up' (or two) that gave us what we have today. I think the PsiHB or the XPH even used those exact words (although IDNHMBIFOM).



glass.

 

[llamatron2000]

Psionics as they are just don't....fit right. Or at least that's what I've always felt as a DM.

Yes, its a kind of nice system to use, but alongside magic, its just...too much extra mechanics without enough variance to really justify itself. I'd rather we have a core system of magic that can be tweaked with templates, or something to add flavor.

As for the spell point system? I don't like it. I've experimented with it in the past, and my players and I both prefer the Vancian system.

As for splitting core books? I agree that magic should be included in a completely separate supplement.

 

[Wombat]

Don't like psionics

Never have, never will

 

[Ghendar]

Don't like psionics

Never have, never will

yeah, that's pretty much my feeling as well. I'm one who considers psionics to be more sci fi based than fantasy based. Always thought it was out of place in D&D, unlike say, Gamma World or Star Frontiers where it would definitely shine bright. I also don't consider it to be magic, or even a different form of magic.

I say keep it out of core and give those who want it, a supplement book.

 

[Psion]

As for the spell point system? I don't like it. I've experimented with it in the past, and my players and I both prefer the Vancian system.

Well, it's a good thing psionics are an addition to the existing systems, not a replacement, eh?