Should published adventures contain an "optimization level"

[Nightfall]

LOL! See I'll play with dice any day, and I'll bet money some times. But never both! Especially not in Las "The city that's more shallow than Death Valley" Vegas.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Rystil,

Well at least he'll be good for getting you deals on ressurrected! I think the dice gods must have smiled on you.

No--the 'close calls' were due to the dice hating us ridiculously. Damn Triel and her stupid Smite+Power Attack+Natural 20 (which confirmed) followed by 18 for the iterative She even hit Alcyone too when not Power Attacking (quite a feat with AC 26).

As to the Diplomacy--we used it to solve part of Life's Bazaar in the weirdest way possible [SBLOCK=Life's Bazaar spoilers]We talked the Dark Stalker guy into helping us in exchange for killing the Grell and figuring out about the Vanishing because the Cleric rolled very high on Diplomacy. Then, we talked my way into the Blue Crater Academy, where we researched the Vanishing at their library, figured out the secret, and returned with the info

Of course, not killing that guy put us at the low end on treasure though [/SBLOCK]

 

[Rystil Arden]

Optimization doesn't just apply to character rules and creation. Depending on the adventure design it can be a cakewalk or a TPK depending up on the Players' Ability.

This point has been brought home to me again and again as my players breeze through some challenges without skipping a beat and get hung up on others for hours.

Exactly! This is what my example attempts to illustrate--player ability is key, and optimisation is only a piece of it. Good players can make fun RP characters who are not at all optimised and still wind up owning a published adventure due to creativity and inventive tactics.

 

[Nightfall]

Rystil,

Wow. That was weird! 2,000 XP for most incredible way to figure something out in the weirdest way possible!

Still, dice to me can be fickle. I mean the encounters in AoW's A Whispering Carin, they had it good since I kept rolling poorly (as the DM I mean)

 

[howandwhy99]

LOL! See I'll play with dice any day, and I'll bet money some times. But never both! Especially not in Las "The city that's more shallow than Death Valley" Vegas.

Hey, if you're willing to bet your characters life on 'em, go for it! I'll stick with trying to minimize risk while maximizing reward.

For me, dice are the Ref's tool to simulate chance in the world. Playing well is my defense against that.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Rystil,

Wow. That was weird! 2,000 XP for most incredible way to figure something out in the weirdest way possible!

Still, dice to me can be fickle. I mean the encounters in AoW's A Whispering Carin, they had it good since I kept rolling poorly (as the DM I mean)

Dice are quite fickle, but as howandwhy said, in the end, more randomness always favours the bad guys because there are more of them. For instance, a silly houserule of "20 on a confirm is instadeath, no saves" is going to hurt the players far more often than the bad guys because there's more of a chance that the bad guys will roll the two consecutive 20s.

 

[FireLance]

I agree with Rystil that player ability is the more important variable. So, instead of an "optimization level", adventures could be slanted towards beginning, intermediate and experienced players, with "scaling the adventure" sidebars that simplify mattters for beginning players or add additional complications for experienced players.

 

[Nightfall]

True which is why I don't do instat-deaths. It's usually bad for them.

How,

I ALWAYS risk my characters. That's why I keep getting new ones. Well some times. Not usually between 1st and 4th level but around 5th I usually start to press my luck.

 

[Rystil Arden]

I agree with Rystil that player ability is the more important variable. So, instead of an "optimization level", adventures could be slanted towards beginning, intermediate and experienced players, with "scaling the adventure" sidebars that simplify mattters for beginning players or add additional complications for experienced players.

Oh, that's a great idea. It might not even need to make the adventure necessarily objectively harder in terms of more of the same guys or higher levels, either, just more complicated with more to think about or deal with. For instance, I don't need a sidebar that says "Replace the four mook soldiers with six mook soldiers for a bigger challenge", but something like "For advanced players, there are only two mook soldiers, but a Warlock hides in the rafters, using the darkness and his Devil's Sight invocation to his advantage as he takes out the PCs one by one, starting with the one that looks like the healer."

 

[howandwhy99]

True which is why I don't do instat-deaths. It's usually bad for them.

How,

I ALWAYS risk my characters. That's why I keep getting new ones. Well some times. Not usually between 1st and 4th level but around 5th I usually start to press my luck.

So you choose to face less challenging foes and progress slower? That's a perfectly valid option. Or is your DM playing those higher CR creatures weak? Pressing one's luck is normally where death comes calling.

Signing off now.