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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dualazi" data-source="post: 7022516" data-attributes="member: 6855537">The goblin grind would be a more helpful metric if we could agree on the particulars, but many of those features just don’t cut it, really. So a barbarian rocks a combat where he rages, what about the other estimated 5+ combats that day? Yeah, the rogue has sneak attack, which isn’t always a given, and he has less AC/hp to boot.So yeah, they do have better options than the ranger, which is only if an issue (at this level) if they overshadow the ranger so much that there’s no point in picking it, and I’m not sure I agree.So, imbalances that last for an hour aren’t significant, and the quality of life improved by fretting about it don’t justify the effort, to say nothing of unbalancing the game elsewhere, such as multiclassing.The reason you’re comparing spammable abilities at this level is because even the full casters don’t have a lot of their big guns. This means a lot of level 1 is relegated to just that; basic attack or abilities you can use over and over.Also, no they do not. Action surge and Cunning action are both level 2, and both action surge and second wind (the only other active ability fighters have by then) are both bound to short rests. Monks likewise are bound to the Ki pool.Because you willfully dismissed the full package when you discounted the ranger abilities that affect the other pillar.You absolutely did. There are definitely campaigns where they can be useful, and even if there were not, there are few abilities you can swap in its place without problems. Warlock would be far less attractive of a level dip if Rangers had level 1 spellcasting, on account of better proficiencies, HD, and the potential to go a second level for a fighting style. Not to mention the Hex spell is necrotic damage, the worst type.The MAD advantage is largely negligible due to Dex being the wonderstat this game. Rapier and bows put you on par with anyone not using a 2h weapon.My point, as above, is that you keep bringing up weapon proficiency (which the ranger has all it needs) and armor proficiency, which again, only becomes a significant advantage later when items like plate show up.See above.You opening statement was simply “should they get spellcasting at level 1” and then later expanded this to include arguments about level 1 balance. When I suggested that they are balanced enough in combat and have out of combat exploration abilities, you then decided that the exploration abilities don’t count. So I then opted to show a) that there really aren’t significant differences in balance at level 1, and b) that even if you dismiss the stuff that does balance the classes, then you won’t have to wait long for the stuff that does allegedly balance them.</blockquote>

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