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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7022536" data-attributes="member: 6795602">Well thanks for finally agreeing the other classes mentioned are better at level 1 combat than the ranger and paladin.  At least that's a start...Well at least you are agreeing there's imbalance there.  Another good start.So let me flip this argument on you.  If we only really should be comparing spammable abilities then adding a single level 1 spell slot couldn't imbalance level 1 right?Fighting style is spammable (assuming an offensive one).  So is monk martial arts extra attack.  So is rogue sneak attack.How many times you seen used the rangers or paladins abilities at level 1? (excluding lay on hands)I think there is a great many abilities that can be swapped in their place with no problems.If you are talking about a 2 level dip then nothing changes except for a single level.  So I'm only going to look at a single level dip.If damage type necrotic is the only thing you can say against hex then you have a bad argument about getting hunters mark with a 1 level dip unbalancing the game.  An ability that does the same thing with a slightly less resisted damage type that can be gotten at the same level does not unbalance the game.  I mean are you even really thinking about what you are claiming?Ignoring this one.  Apparently your strategy is to overwhelm with meaningless info.  None of this matters to the discussion at hand.  You've already conceded that other classes are better at combat than the level 1 ranger and paladin.  Since all the mention of MAD and Heavy armor and everything was in relation to a cleric I think you would extend that concession and include a level 1 cleric of any subclass that gets martial weapons and state that he is better at combat at level 1 than a level 1 ranger or paladinOkay, I'm going to take this slowly.  Maybe you will get it this time.  A mentioned weapon and armor proficiency in relation to a cleric because not all clerics get the same weapon and armor proficiencies.  You think you understand why heavy armor and martial weapons were mentioned in relation to the cleric now?a.  you haven't shown there aren't significant difference in combat balance.  In fact you just conceded that there were significant enough difference in combat balance in this very post I quotedb.  a point we all agree with?  level 1 is short.  Again so what?  Saying level 1 is short over and over again doesn't mean anything.  Saying the balance returns after level 1 while true still doesn't do anything about short level 1.</blockquote>

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