Should the Paladin pay for Evil Magic Items he wants / has destroyed?

[Lonely Tylenol]

Can't, I gave mine away.

I'm sorry, but if the players are demanding their equal share of everything even stuff that needs to be destroyted they are being selfish. The paladin should declare them as evil, only other evil beings would want these evil items to remain around.

Since when have paladins been authorized to declare that a person is or is not evil? If the person shows up on Detect Evil, he's evil. If he doesn't, he isn't. This is why paladins have Detect Evil at will as a spell-like ability: to eliminate confusion by making alignment issues perfectly clear. The fun thing about an absolute system of metaphysical morality, such as the one inherent in D&D, is that a person's alignment is objective and not a matter of opinion, even if the opinion belongs to a paladin...which is why that damn paladin from OOTS is due for a fall soon.

If a paladin has a problem with the other party members acting in a Neutral fashion, that's another story. Associating with neutral characters does not violate the paladin's code, even if they perform evil acts from time to time. Heck, even a good character could get away with selling an evil magic item without affecting his alignment if he doesn't make a habit of it. Any paladin worth his salt would, of course, protest over the sale of evil magic items, but he has no authority to declare the party to be evil (his spell-like ability would argue the point against him) just because they happen to be performing a single questionable act. I'd probably consider the paladin in violation of his code if he did anything like attack the party (Loose Canon [sic] Paladin Syndrome), but probably not if he stole the item to destroy it. He has an obligation to destroy the item, but the most he's really able to do is to try to convince the other party members to give it up, because if they're not evil, he's not really authorized to dispense ad-hoc justice.

If the paladin disappears in the night with the Sword of Evil, he's following his code. If he kills good or neutral party members in his mindless desire to destroy the SoE, he's violating his code. If he roughs them up to steal the sword, that's treading on thin ice.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

They are opposed to the destruction of actively evil items?

They would say something like:

"You know you're paying for..:" *SMITE EVIL DIVINE MIGHT POWER ATTACK!* "...argh!"

DM: Okay, you violate the rules on intra-party conflict and attack the fighter. I'll let it slide though, for the sake of the pleasure of informing you that your smite fails to work on the Lawful Neutral fighter, which means that with your power attack maxed out like that you manage to hit AC 3, which is an order of magnitude less than you needed to strike the fighter. Allow me this chance to also remind you that you are now the aggressor in this circumstance, and the local laws allow for the fighter to defend himself with lethal force. I should also point out that he has about three times the number of feats you do, all of which are designed to maximize the amount of hurt he can squeeze out of his opponents in the shortest span of time. And, my impulsively violent friend, you're outnumbered. Roll initiative.

 

[TheYeti1775]

DM: Okay, you violate the rules on intra-party conflict and attack the fighter. I'll let it slide though, for the sake of the pleasure of informing you that your smite fails to work on the Lawful Neutral fighter, which means that with your power attack maxed out like that you manage to hit AC 3, which is an order of magnitude less than you needed to strike the fighter. Allow me this chance to also remind you that you are now the aggressor in this circumstance, and the local laws allow for the fighter to defend himself with lethal force. I should also point out that he has about three times the number of feats you do, all of which are designed to maximize the amount of hurt he can squeeze out of his opponents in the shortest span of time. And, my impulsively violent friend, you're outnumbered. Roll initiative.

O I want to play in that game.

Any Paladin joining the party should make it clear of things of this nature, if the party is of a 'greed' nature than perhaps the Paladin could contact his church on their behalf and explain the great deeds they do in good's name. But alas, they aren't the purest sort and seek compensation for destroying the evils of the world. Mayhaps it would be best for the church to help in compensating the groups missions in the recovering these artifacts of evil so that the group will not be tempted by other sources of income and the artifacts fall into evil's hands once again.
That method would appease both the greed and the Paladin's code, and provide many plot hooks for the DM to pull on. Nothing like the Head of a Church, as the party passes through a town, tell a story of Mr. X with Weapon X and the evil he does in the mountains nearby.
Even the greediest theif will sell to the church for percentage of worth when it holds no danger past getting the item there. And every good Wizard knows a strong Paladin standing between him and the onrushing forces is a good thing.

But as I said for PLAYER cohesiveness it should be discussed beforehand.
Now if all the PLAYERS are for some bickering such as the Paladin's strain then all is well. As we all know it is a game to be enjoyed by all.

Yeti

 

[TheYeti1775]

One other thing, the biggest compensation possible.......

Free Raise Dead - At 5k a pop, nothing to lightly dismiss as a bring back.
Even a LG church would bring back a Greedy, Shifty, Backstabbing, etc etc of a Rogue if he continuely does good for the church. I.E. eliminates evil on a regular basis.

 

[Gothmog]

In my games, the paladins who do find evil items are instructed to bring the item back to their church for study and possibly destruction. This includes both items and spellbooks. The reasoning goes like this: if evil forces are using potent magical items and/or evil spells, the church needs to know about it and get it out of circulation. Items are likely to be destroyed after they have been researched and determined to only be trouble, wheras most spellbooks and evil tomes will be kept in a repository or vault in the church for future reference (plus this allows for me as the rat-bastard DM to have priests become corrupted by "forbidden knowledge or items" and cause more trouble later! ). IMC, the church does compensate the paladin and PCs by offering preferential treatment if it is needed (healing, restoration), information, and might offer the party blessed or holy items in compensation. However, if there is no way to get the item or book in question back to the church, the paladin is expected to destroy it rather than let it fall into other hands. While he won't get compensated for it (at least in a monetary sense), he and his church know they have hindered the foes of his faith. Selling evil items on the market just isn't an option- for one thing people are VERY superstitious and fearful of evil magic items/spells, not to mention its highly illegal and carries a stiff penalty. So that leaves only the black market for selling evil items, and most paladins (and even adventurers of good and neurtral alignments) should be hesitant to deal with the criminal underworld in that case.

The idea that the paladin should compensate the party for lost loot seems EXTREMELY meta-gamey to me, and while some people would be fine with that, it seems like a really odd notion to me. Its likely with a paladin or cleric in the group, the other PCs benefit from his abilities and powers (remove disease, laying of hands, spells) and are most likely not charged for them. So if the group benefits from the paladin/cleric's abilities, why should they stick it to the PC in question when he asks for something in return?

 

[Mirtek]

He could have released a greater evil onto the would and now how about the clean up of the toxic evil bits of item all over the place, what happens if people come in contact with them? .

Uh, that's good.

As you smash the vile balde into pieces a sickly greenish foam seeps from the edges of the broken pieces and turns into a cloud of fog as it comes into contact with the air. *Everybody please make a fort save* The fog momentary gathers into a demonic face and sneers at you: "FREE! FINALLY FREE! Thank you noble warrior of light" before it volatilizes. *to paladin player: you get this sinking feeling in your stomach that you just made a big misstake*

A clever paladin might work with the group, using the sale of evil stuff as a sting operation to find and investigate then capture/kill the buyers so that the group makes money and evil takes a boot to the head. Since the adventurers will then likely have a bigger cache of evil toys, they can then try to sell the items to someone else until people catch on. At that point, no one will be buying the items anyway, so he might as well break them. However, Clever doesn't come standard on pallies.

Wow, that's even better:

Paladin: Stop, you are charged with buying evil artifacts, I have irrefutable proof of your guilt. Yield and be arrested!
Evil guy: Ofcourse you have proof, YOU WERE THE ONE SELLING IT TO ME!!
Paladin: Yes, that were I got my proof

But if the party first sell the item to someone and then proceed to beat him up and take his stuff (as punishment for buying evil items) shouldn't there be less stuff to take? So they wouldn't get anymore treasure anyway?

If "evil guy A" had 100,000 gp to loot and they sell him the evil sword for 30,000 gp, his new loot would just consist of 70,000g and an evil sword worth 30,000 gp

 

[Quartz]

My tuppence...

I'd take it gradually. Not destroying an evil item is not per se an evil act - it's a Neutral one. If the rest of the party want the paladin to pay out of his share, so be it, but they might find themselves not benefitting from the paladin's class abilities. "Sorry, but when Sir Percival Lays his Hands on you, you feel a mild burning sensation / his inner goodness reject you and gain no benefit" or, "Sorry, but it seems that while Sir Percival's Aura of Courage protected the rest of the group, it didn't seem to protect you." And the paladin might benefit from a small luck bonus for a time (say +2 for the next session). Or the paladin get to re-roll a die or two whih this works well in a game with passing notes: you simply pass a note or two saying, 'This note worth one re-roll'. At high levels and a major evil magic item, a chit for Miracle would not be amiss, perhaps even a free feat.

Equally, if another character does behave in an evil manner then either it's time for either the paladin or the other to leave the party, or for the paladin to try and redeem 'his old friend who has slipped from grace'. The latter might be even more annoying than the former. Some out of character discussion would certainly be necessary.

 

[sword-dancer]

The party has won the battle and the Dark Knight lay dead. His black rune covered blade lays nearby and still mutters its blasphemous chant. With a mighty swing of his holy warhammer the paladin reduces the blade to shards of daemonic metal.

From nearby the fighter says, "You know the value of that sword is coming out of you share of the treasure "

The wizard screams "Again?! Every time we defeat someone, it is either 'He used an evil spell, burn his spell book' or 'his magic items are evil, smash them!' That stuff is not cheap and neither were those Greater Boots of Speed you love so much. if your share of the rest of his stuff doesn't cover the sword, THOSE are getting sold.

3rd Answer raise your bill to my god, Payment delivery is instant 25 cosmic lightning bolts for each.

4th let the church pays it, either the inquisition will take hand of your matter of corrupting others for your greed(which they and other forces of good will do also as fast as they know about and have the ressources available*) or some beneficial order will heal your mental illness imposed by strain and evil influences

5 Holy Smite them to pulp.

No way is any LawfulGood Organisation IMC, short any order church etc who has legitimate authoritie to make such judgement judge a pally owns somebody a recompensation for destroying evil items.

*Short said your chars wil if get caught most likely executed.

 

[sword-dancer]

The spellbook? If it didn't detect as evil, then Pally boy better be paying up for that..

If it holds evil spells, destruction or giving it in safe hands is the right way to go.

 

[Mirtek]

No way is any LawfulGood Organisation IMC, short any order church etc who has legitimate authoritie to make such judgement judge a pally owns somebody a recompensation for destroying evil items.

And that's why it's good that LG churches are only advisers in most countries and don't have any legitimate authorities. We can see at the Theocracy of Pale in the Greyhawk setting how much a country where a LG church is the ultimate authority sucks (honestly, not even paladin players want to come anywhere near this nation)