Should there be a d20 *generic* corebook?

[dead]

I was wondering if there should be a set of *generic* d20 corebooks that are not genre specific. I'm not saying that these books would supercede the D&D corebooks, but they'd offer GMs a reference that is NOT D&D. For example, if a new GM wanted to run a campaign using the d20 system but didn't want to play D&D, and didn't want to buy any of the campaign-specific material out there for other d20 genres, then a set of core d20 *generic* rules would provide him with a tool-kit to work from.

Now, in attempting to make a generic system for d20 I would include all the basic material: six ability scores, skills, and feats. Classes, however, are a problem because they are very genre specific. So, you'd either have to get rid of classes or create very abstract classes; ie. Strong Hero, Smart Hero, etc. Another contentious issue would be level advancement. This mechanic has a power-gaming mentality to it (I love it in D&D, though) that may not suit all genres.

So there could be a d20 PHB, d20 GMG (Game Master's Guide), and maybe a d20 CM (Creature Manual) with basic creatures and rules to allow the GM to create his own.

I'm not saying that a generic system will *always* work -- arguably you can never have a generic system. But I do believe that you can have *more* generic systems than others. At the moment, if a GM wants to run his own unique non-D&D campaign he has to buy the core D&D books PLUS several other tomes and plunder them for d20 bits and pieces he likes. This doesn't make it a very inviting prospect to create your own d20 campaign and genre. Sure, if you're lucky, you'll find a d20 product out there that suits the sort of campaign/genre you want to play, but I think it would be nice to work from a *neutral* base that you can extrapolate from.

Could a generic system be done with d20?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

What you're looking for is GRIM TALES.

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

What you're looking for is GRIM TALES.

Pimp.

 

[haiiro]

Now, in attempting to make a generic system for d20 I would include all the basic material: six ability scores, skills, and feats.

I think you'd run into problems with skills and feats as well. While the skills and feats in D&D work well for fantasy, they leave out all sorts of modern things -- like guns and computers -- not to mention sci-fi elements, like starships and advanced tech.

If you diverge from d20 enough to have very broad skills (for example, something that covers electronics but still has an analogue in fantasy -- I don't know what), it seems like you'd have diverged far enough that it wouldn't really be d20 anymore.

 

[scourger]

Good idea!

I like the idea! You would have to make the classes more flexible--defined by players choices. I read that there is a variant for those rules (undefined classes) in Unearthed Arcana. The book would then just need to present a sort of master list for skills & feats--the DM would have to choose the ones that apply to the game. Combat really can stay the same, but options like how hit points and armor work can be felxible, too.

 

[Teflon Billy]

What you're looking for is GRIM TALES.

All he did was beat me to it

Wulf, the copy arrived. Review will be up Tuesday.

 

[dead]

I think you'd run into problems with skills and feats as well. While the skills and feats in D&D work well for fantasy, they leave out all sorts of modern things -- like guns and computers -- not to mention sci-fi elements, like starships and advanced tech.

If you diverge from d20 enough to have very broad skills (for example, something that covers electronics but still has an analogue in fantasy -- I don't know what), it seems like you'd have diverged far enough that it wouldn't really be d20 anymore.

I think it could be done but you'd have to cater for various Tech Levels like the GURPS Basic Set book. GURPS has Skills and it kind of has Feats but they are called Advantages/Disadvantages -- they're not exactly like Feats but they work in a similar way because you don't put Ranks into them; you just pick 'em up (albeit, usually only when a PC is created).

So, taking the GURPS model in terms of Skills and Advantages/Disadvantages, I think that d20 can, in a similar way, pull off a collection of Skills and Feats that are usable in most genre situations. Everyone wouldn't necessarily use every Skill/Feat in the book, however (just like GURPS). For example: You might have Martial Weapon Proficiency alongside Firearm Weapon Proficiency. A GM playing in a primitive setting won't use the latter but it's there in case he also decides to run a modern game with the same set of core, generic d20 rules.

 

[Zappo]

The problem with this concept is that D20 by itself is incomplete. GURPS gives you everything, from which you trim what you don't need (and add a bit). D20 gives you (almost) nothing, to which you add what you need. A generic D20 book would be very slim and not very useful.

A GURPS-style d20-based generic system would never work. Paradoxically, D20 works well thanks to its specialization - or, more precisely, any D20 game works well thanks to its specialization.

OTOH, one could add to it a big collection of D20 rules - kinda like Unearthed Arcana, but without a fantasy focus.

 

[dead]

The problem with this concept is that D20 by itself is incomplete. GURPS gives you everything, from which you trim what you don't need (and add a bit). D20 gives you (almost) nothing, to which you add what you need. A generic D20 book would be very slim and not very useful.

Yes, a d20 generic system would have to give you as much as GURPS does, but the GURPS corebook is very usable and isn't any bigger than the PHB and DMG. It's only 300 pages or so, I think.

At least this *generic* d20 system could offer an alternative for someone who does not want to tear apart the D&D rules and then patch it up with alternate rules sourced from various d20 setting-specific books that they've had to buy. Now they would just have one core book to give them the answers. Sure, it wouldn't be for everyone, but it would encourage people to create there own unique settings. Also, it would make going from one d20 game to another much easier if they were both using rules from one source.

 

[teitan]

It might help the stigma that D20 can't do everything and maybe turn it into D20 can do everything but isn't always best. See ythe thing is that D20 isn't a generic system like GURPS, it can be, but it wouldn't be as successful as it is now. When you look at the products available a lot of them vary from the core rules in major ways like Spycraft or Mutants & Masterminds. Would they be possible under the assumed D20 system? Not really. Spycraft is a total overhaul of the PHB while M&M is a complete rebuild from the ground up. That is what has made D20 successful. If we moved to a core system, say D20 Modern as a model, products like the above wouldn't work. I think D20 Modern is a great system and would be a perfect model for D&D4 but I wouldn't want to see it as a model that has to be strictly followed for all of D20, or any model for that matter.

Jason